Which processor for upgrade? Omnia-3 or Orban 9400?

[Max_l]

We are in the market for a new processor and some assistance would be greatly appreciated. Currently, we have an Orban Optimod 9100a - manufactured date 05/1985. The station is in the middle of the AM dial which runs mostly a satellite feed consiting of talk with some occaisional music 90/10. HD is not a priority but one day who knows?. Remote control adjusting would just be icing on the cake.

1. Should we go with the Omnia-3 or the Orban 9400?
2. Would I notice a differnce of using one over the other?
3. Your recommedations, comments, pluses/minuses would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[jesseg]

my vote...
1. Orban 9400
2. yes
3. Omnia 3 platform has issues with VERY HARSH internal clipping when processing voice transients, and the AGCs gate/ungate at weird moments. It can be a real pain in the butt to get rid of for good. 9400 has more powerfull architecture, is more consistent on voice, and no unexplainable clipping issues... while Omnia in general leans towards needing "voice processing" preamps if you want a dense sound.

if you want to compare the 9400 to Omnia, check out a 5EX HD+AM.

 

[wgliradio]

9400 is the best processor on the market (it finally even met and beat the 9100). No digital box was ever better than the 9100 (or even the CRL system).

The Omnia 3 is only worth it if you're on a budget and at that point I would troll eBay for used CRL gear or the Inovonics 235.

The Omnia 5EX-AM is OK, but when done with a side by side with a 9400 (which I had the chance to do at a station in Florida that was demo'ing both), the 9400 sounded better to all involved.

 

[zach_morton]

Anyone want a direct trade? I have an Aphex 2020 processor in my rack not being used...and I'd gladly trade you one for one for an Omnia 3 (original or turbo)...

 

[taylorengineer]

The Omnia3 Turbo FM box is great for $3K!!
But....the AM Omnia3 is a dog!! Not even close to ANY vintage of Optimod AM.....well....maybe the original black face 9100.
I have never used or heard the Omnia5. Seems to me it would be difficult to make a better processor than the 9100 (brown face) or the 9200.

 

[CalifZeke]

9400 is the best processor on the market (it finally even met and beat the 9100). No digital box was ever better than the 9100 (or even the CRL system).

The Omnia 3 is only worth it if you're on a budget and at that point I would troll eBay for used CRL gear or the Inovonics 235.

The Omnia 5EX-AM is OK, but when done with a side by side with a 9400 (which I had the chance to do at a station in Florida that was demo'ing both), the 9400 sounded better to all involved.

Odd...

We just did a face-to-face of the 9400 and the Omnia.5 box, and our results were the opposite. The station chose Omnia.

 

[wgliradio]

We all thought the Omnia had good audio, but did not have any punch. It was "too sterile" for AM.

The Optimod could be just as sterile, but you could also kick it into 5th gear and get some punch out of it that reminded us of the 9100, without the grunge you got from the clipper in that box.

 

[CalifZeke]

We all thought the Omnia had good audio, but did not have any punch. It was "too sterile" for AM.

The Optimod could be just as sterile, but you could also kick it into 5th gear and get some punch out of it that reminded us of the 9100, without the grunge you got from the clipper in that box.

"Too sterile"...that's a new one. Again, this is odd, we are able to create any type of signature with Omnia. It is clean, punchy, and loud.

 

[gtomas]

"Too sterile"...that's a new one. Again, this is odd, we are able to create any type of signature with Omnia. It is clean, punchy, and loud.

Processing is subjective and people are subjective... Nothing odd about that. Somebody likes one flavor and texture and somebody else will like the other.

I agree that modern digital processor are very flexible and offer a lot of power to adjust them in various ways. But there'll always be difference in the sound between different processing manufacturers. That's inherent from different processor design, concept and "philosophy" of each designer.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[jesseg]

You know it Goran. Now, how do I close a thread?

 

[Leona]

My vote is for the 9400 if you want digital. Otherwise 9100 or CRL units. I think Omnia is the way to go on FM, but have not been impressed with their products for AM.

 

[wgliradio]

"Too sterile"...that's a new one. Again, this is odd, we are able to create any type of signature with Omnia. It is clean, punchy, and loud.

The Omnia does a very good job at trying to get a very unprocessed sound out of AM. It does not have the depth Optimod has. I have never heard an Omnia AM station that really stood out as sounding killer to me, of having that big sound and having that presence on the dial.

The Optimod, OTOH, could be either dense or have that unprocessed sound. The 9400 (like the 9100) does a good job of building density in its multiband stage. Call it sterile or transparent, the Omnia just doesn't do that and if you TRY to make it happen with fast release times, it gets ugly. There are people who prefer that transparent sound no matter what they're processing and that is OK. In some cases for AM, I do as well. But when I need 5th gear, the 9400 delivered. Of course, you sacrifice clarity with the extra density, but the processing artifactes the 9400 trades off for loudness (slight pumping.. that "compressed" Orban sound) is better than the Omnia trade off for loudness (noticable clipping of voice).

It should be noted that the 9100 would get very tubby and the highs very synthetic and slightly "lost" when run with alot of density. I still thought this was better than just listening to midrange clipping from the Omnia, which, while doing so, did preserve some of the highs a bit better. What makes the 9400 sound better is that it is able to emulate that sound, but without the highs getting lost or the bass getting tubby.

I also thought the bass on the Orban was more consistant and, while the box was more consistant overall cut-to-cut (another thing some users may NOT like), I think overall, tonal consistancy is paramount for AM, especially since may are now processing for lower bandwidth. The Omnia has a more FM type approach where the processing is more accurate to the source. This may be what you were looking for and if I had a music station with the traditional NRSC curve, this is probably how I would go.

My mistake was not making off air recordings of the two processors as we were working on them. I would liked to have had audio examples to exhibit.

 

[CalifZeke]

The Optimod, OTOH, could be either dense or have that unprocessed sound. The 9400 (like the 9100) does a good job of building density in its multiband stage. Call it sterile or transparent, the Omnia just doesn't do that and if you TRY to make it happen with fast release times, it gets ugly. There are people who prefer that transparent sound no matter what they're processing and that is OK. In some cases for AM, I do as well. But when I need 5th gear, the 9400 delivered. Of course, you sacrifice clarity with the extra density, but the processing artifactes the 9400 trades off for loudness (slight pumping.. that "compressed" Orban sound) is better than the Omnia trade off for loudness (noticable clipping of voice).

It should be noted that the 9100 would get very tubby and the highs very synthetic and slightly "lost" when run with alot of density. I still thought this was better than just listening to midrange clipping from the Omnia, which, while doing so, did preserve some of the highs a bit better. What makes the 9400 sound better is that it is able to emulate that sound, but without the highs getting lost or the bass getting tubby.

You seem to be making claims that we did find to be correct. We could build density with the Omnia, as you described, but without the pumping and synthetic sound that "5th gear" of the 9400 creates. Our goal is to create clean densiity, and the 9400 does not seem to do that.

I also thought the bass on the Orban was more consistant and, while the box was more consistant overall cut-to-cut (another thing some users may NOT like), I think overall, tonal consistancy is paramount for AM, especially since may are now processing for lower bandwidth. The Omnia has a more FM type approach where the processing is more accurate to the source. This may be what you were looking for and if I had a music station with the traditional NRSC curve, this is probably how I would go.

I'm wondering if you misunderstood how to use or adjust the Omnia. Again, we are not experiencing this with our unit.

 

[CalifZeke]

You seem to be making claims that we did find to be correct. We could build density with the Omnia, as you described, but without the pumping and synthetic sound that "5th gear" of the 9400 creates. Our goal is to create clean densiity, and the 9400 does not seem to do that.

My mistake...My comment should read: You seem to be making claims that we did NOT find to be correct.

 

[wgliradio]

It all depends on the threshold of pain you can tolerate and what sound your market dictates.

I and other colleagues in market #1 have spent time with Omnia processors and most of the engineers I've talked to agree that the Omnia is just OK. A few do like it because of the open sound.

Most HD stations have them because Orban was far behind the curve in developing a box that did both HD and the analog path. Omnia has gotten on the air at these stations because they were ahead of the curve and deserve credit. I just wish they would further improve their box so it has some life on the dial without pushing so hard on the clipper.

And again, I did a 1:1 comparison... on air... at a news/talk outside Tampa. Everyone picked the Orban over the Omnia. I would like to hear samples of your audio if you have it to see what you've gotten from your Omnia.

 

[CalifZeke]

It all depends on the threshold of pain you can tolerate and what sound your market dictates.

I and other colleagues in market #1 have spent time with Omnia processors and most of the engineers I've talked to agree that the Omnia is just OK. A few do like it because of the open sound.

Most HD stations have them because Orban was far behind the curve in developing a box that did both HD and the analog path. Omnia has gotten on the air at these stations because they were ahead of the curve and deserve credit. I just wish they would further improve their box so it has some life on the dial without pushing so hard on the clipper.

And again, I did a 1:1 comparison... on air... at a news/talk outside Tampa. Everyone picked the Orban over the Omnia. I would like to hear samples of your audio if you have it to see what you've gotten from your Omnia.

I've got market #1 colleagues too, and they seem to be saying the opposite. Guess it all comes down to whom you talk to. Actually, the complaint I keep hearing about Orban is "why do they still make boxes that sound so smashed?" Maybe that's what you refer to as density. We could never get the 9400 to sound loud and clean. It always seemed to contain that synthetic sound, like my head was put in a vise.

Seems we agree to disagree.

 

[jesseg]

I agree about Orban's "head in vice" mentality. I also see right through Rob Orban's hypocritical idea that: the broadcasters are going to smash the crap out the the signal anyways, so we'll provide them with an easy way to do it. (see XT/XT2 history, etc)

Actually looking back the XT/XT2 are moderate in most ways compared to the power available in modern digital processing. Sadly his mentality hasn't changed with the times. It's not entirely his fault for sure... I'm not blaming the loudness wars completely on Rob Orban. Just mostly. :-[ But that's a whole other thread.

If i was deciding between a 9100 and a 5AM for a non-hd talker, I wouldn't choose either of them. I'd probably opt for CRL Amigo AM, cos it's clean, straight to the point, and keeps one in compliance.

 

[wgliradio]

I've got market #1 colleagues too, and they seem to be saying the opposite. Guess it all comes down to whom you talk to. Actually, the complaint I keep hearing about Orban is "why do they still make boxes that sound so smashed?" Maybe that's what you refer to as density. We could never get the 9400 to sound loud and clean. It always seemed to contain that synthetic sound, like my head was put in a vise.

Seems we agree to disagree.

I would still love to hear samples of your audio and hear how you're doing with it. The comments we've gotten on Omnia is that the audio is just lying around, has no punch and the "sterile" comment.

I am not a huge supporter of Orban... I'm not in love with their FM boxes, the new software for the 1100PC card I own is not that great (and just adds more band-aids from the first software offering) and the 8200 and 9200 were digital disasters. I liked the 9100 for a one-box solution, the 8100 stood the test of time and the 9400 is actually the first digital box they've ever offered for AM or FM that I thought was *really* good.

 

[Sgeirk]

Gotta agree with the earlier poster about the CRL Amigo for AM...sort of an unheralded champion, in my book.

A smidge of pre processing ahead of it and wham, does it sound good! May not be state of the art, but for the $$$, there's not much that can come close.

 

[gtomas]

As a big disclaimer - I've actually never heard or compared an AM processors as there are no AM stations here that I could listen. I know this is quite different to the situation in USA, but it is what it is.

However, comments that Mike made on Omnia (albeit for AM) are pretty similar to my feelings about Omnia for FM. I guess the difference in my impression vs yours might come for the fact that we are processing with 50us pre-emphasis here and not 75us. Or it's just plain old subjectivity In any way, I find Omnia-6FM to be very open and transparent (and clean if you want), however I'm sometimes lacking a bit of density and compression. A bit more "meat" so to say... Orbans on the other way, can pack a lot of density and, agreed, sometimes sound too smashed, but with relaxed pre-emphasis I guess this effect also much less pronounced here than in USA with 75us.

So, although I didn't actually hear Omnia-5AM nor 9400, my impressions on Omnia and Orban processors for FM quite coincide with Mike's comments made here, although I would refrain from calling one processor better than the other. They are quite different for sure, and that inherently means that if you like one better, you will like the other less


Regards,
Goran Tomas