Who will take on Rock in New York?

[reelyreal]

The reasons behind the sound of AM are far beyond your comprehension level. Let's just leave it at "it can't be done."

It sounds like you'd like radio in Canada and Europe where the government controls every aspect of your business. Check it out.

 

[DG02816]

Have to give a BIG tip of the hat to Tony and Giacomo for some very thoughtful, classy, and detailed discussion. Here in Philly, we've got 3 spoken-word FM's: WIP-FM 94.1, WPEN-FM 97.5, and WWIQ 106.9.The first two simulcast on their AM sisters, but that will soon change. WIP 610 will be clearing CBS' new network the first of next year, and WPEN 950 will go to Family Radio. Local programming will stay on the FM's. WWIQ is debuting at 1.9 with conservative talk. There was some speculation that CBS might buy 106.9 and make it a simulcast of KYW 1060, but that seems to have eased off as of late. After reading XCountry's last post that devolved into gibberish, all I can say to him is, GROW UP! Tony and Giacomo have pretty much nailed it. Take some time also to look into the technical aspects of AM vs. FM, and you'll see another reason behind this. If you're THAT much of a firebrand for alternative, then why not buy some time on an AM and have at it?

 

[DG02816]

And here's something from the Boston board....

FAN 660 is better than 2 to 1 beating WEPN 98.7 in the City. I wonder how moving to 101.9 and losing 660 doesn't replicate the recent 1050 to 98.7 WEPN eclat?

FWIW, Why does CBS blow up a resurrected, sailing up the charts, 101.9 WRXP seeing they have a dowdy old 102.7 just hanging around doing who knows what?

-

Because it appeals to an audience who hates commercial radio, is ultrapicky and whines about everything, compared to an AC audience, and advertisers don't want.

 

[XCountry285]

If CBS were to flip anything I would imagine it would be Now FM because Fresh is going after Lite while protecting CBS. Now isn't doing that much and hasn't been doing much against Rhythmic CHR KTU, Hip Hop Power, and CHR Z100. I hope that Fresh moves to 92.3 and alternative goes back to 102.7 where it belongs. or CC flips Power or KTU to Alternative. Although I do like Power and sometimes KTU does do good remixes it's repetitive we have too many stations playing the same formats or types of formats here. This past summer I swear every station was playing Call Me Maybe at least every 10 minutes if that. There was basically no place to go to get away from it! There aren't many owners of stations in the NYC market: CBS & CC control almost ALL of the market's stations. It's insane that they compete with each other, yet they don't see the major overlapping their stations have. Cumulus is the only company that can buy anything. Why hasn't any company come in here besides Merlin? I know it's because of the economy but I'm surprised no one has tried. Don't these other companies see they need to diversify their stations in an area and prevent overlapping their music.

 

[luperm]

Tony and Giacomo have pretty much nailed it.

Nailed what? That "corporate suits" just don't "get it" because they won't program a station that suits your personal tastes?

That, because of some wicked agenda that "corporate suits" have cooked up, radio is collectively going to neglect the supposedly hugely underserved country, dance and alternative markets? Nobody is saying that any of those formats won't do OK, but these "suits" are shooting higher than that.

Here's an idea...support some of the HD2 offerings that provide alternative, country and dance music.

In any case, it seems like the "suits" have figured out that they have to be in the content creation business as well as the content distribution business. Anyone with an Internet connection can be a content distributor that plays music these days, but it takes time, money and experience to create content. Creation and control of content will drive profits down the road.

 

[CTListener]

FWIW, Why does CBS blow up a resurrected, sailing up the charts, 101.9 WRXP seeing they have a dowdy old 102.7 just hanging around doing who knows what?

-

Because it appeals to an audience who hates commercial radio, is ultrapicky and whines about everything, compared to an AC audience, and advertisers don't want.

Bingo!

 

[MikeyMotnowRadio]

After a very long dry spell, I finally got a little more faith in NY terrestrial radio when RXP came back brighter and sharper.
I got hooked and tried to listen whenever I could; and that's not easy being out in Shoreham, LI.
Sad to see it go.

 

[islanddxer]

I totally agree with X-Country. How many stations do you need playing autotuned pop? 92.3, 95.5, 97.1,100.3,103.5,105.1 and some on 106.7 too! 7 stations that play Usher, Taio Cruz, and Nicki Minoj? Cmmon! Meanwhile there won't be even one station that plays new rock artists like Muse and The Black Keys? Look at SNL, they are more and more featuring NEW ROCK artists like Muse as well as Passion Pit, but NYC radio won't respond. Merlin screwed new rock fans as well as CBS, who'd rather continue to push NOW which plays the same stuff that you hear on 6 other radio stations? Seriously? Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore. NYC is the most boring corporate radio in the whole country. I cant think of any other place that has so many stations playing the same music. And sadly this is not a new problem in NYC. Fortunately the areas around NYC, such as on Long Island, have more variety to offer with AAA stations such as EHM and harder edged rock on 94.3 and 103.9 (though I wish 94.3 would have been more alternative sounding), Hudson Valley has 107.1, NJ has 105.5 WDHA.
BTW Neon Trees are on Leno right now, but you wont hear them on NYC radio in a few weeks. Seems NYC is an island of ignorance when it comes to radio programming as it has been for years. The loss of RXP for the 2nd time just proves it, esp when ratings are climbing higher than FAN on FM will, just look at 98.7! Oh thats right ratings dont count anymore :

 

[CTListener]

Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore.

The music that's getting ratings -- all that auto-tuned pop and hip hop you hate -- is billing well. Rock lost much of its most important source of growth -- the teens -- to rhythmic-based music years ago. How are they supposed to become rock listeners in their 20s and 30s when they become valuable to advertisers when the music they've grown up with and loved is as far away from rock as Gregorian chant? These are perilous times for rock; if no one rock "sound" emerges that can win over not only the existing rock fans but the teens and young adults now listening to Minaj and Pitbull, commercial radio will continue to shun it. In New York City, rock's troubles are compounded by the ethnic makeup of the market -- lots of folks with no history of liking rock or rock-based music.

 

[mrbrightside]

Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore.

The music that's getting ratings -- all that auto-tuned pop and hip hop you hate -- is billing well. Rock lost much of its most important source of growth -- the teens -- to rhythmic-based music years ago. How are they supposed to become rock listeners in their 20s and 30s when they become valuable to advertisers when the music they've grown up with and loved is as far away from rock as Gregorian chant? These are perilous times for rock; if no one rock "sound" emerges that can win over not only the existing rock fans but the teens and young adults now listening to Minaj and Pitbull, commercial radio will continue to shun it. In New York City, rock's troubles are compounded by the ethnic makeup of the market -- lots of folks with no history of liking rock or rock-based music.

Not true at all, turn your eyes south 80 miles, to Philadelphia, where the alternative station is number one in 18-49 and 25-54. These are not perilous times for rock, it's just that NYC ignores it. The biggest problem is the commuting factor in New York. Public transit users are going to use an ipod, not a radio.

 

[CTListener]

Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore.

The music that's getting ratings -- all that auto-tuned pop and hip hop you hate -- is billing well. Rock lost much of its most important source of growth -- the teens -- to rhythmic-based music years ago. How are they supposed to become rock listeners in their 20s and 30s when they become valuable to advertisers when the music they've grown up with and loved is as far away from rock as Gregorian chant? These are perilous times for rock; if no one rock "sound" emerges that can win over not only the existing rock fans but the teens and young adults now listening to Minaj and Pitbull, commercial radio will continue to shun it. In New York City, rock's troubles are compounded by the ethnic makeup of the market -- lots of folks with no history of liking rock or rock-based music.

Not true at all, turn your eyes south 80 miles, to Philadelphia, where the alternative station is number one in 18-49 and 25-54. These are not perilous times for rock, it's just that NYC ignores it. The biggest problem is the commuting factor in New York. Public transit users are going to use an ipod, not a radio.

Philadelphia must be an anomaly if what you say is true. Hartford's WCCC has a terrific signal and looks up at the market's CHR and Urban stations, not to mention its two ACs, book after book. Boston just lost WFNX, one of its two new rock stations, to Clear Channel's miscellaneous old rock format -- heavy on the '80s -- and WAAF struggles mightily. And this is in a market that has a reputation for favoring rock over rhythmic.

 

[TonySantiago]

I totally agree with X-Country. How many stations do you need playing autotuned pop? 92.3, 95.5, 97.1,100.3,103.5,105.1 and some on 106.7 too! 7 stations that play Usher, Taio Cruz, and Nicki Minoj? Cmmon! Meanwhile there won't be even one station that plays new rock artists like Muse and The Black Keys? Look at SNL, they are more and more featuring NEW ROCK artists like Muse as well as Passion Pit, but NYC radio won't respond. Merlin screwed new rock fans as well as CBS, who'd rather continue to push NOW which plays the same stuff that you hear on 6 other radio stations? Seriously? Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore. NYC is the most boring corporate radio in the whole country. I cant think of any other place that has so many stations playing the same music. And sadly this is not a new problem in NYC. Fortunately the areas around NYC, such as on Long Island, have more variety to offer with AAA stations such as EHM and harder edged rock on 94.3 and 103.9 (though I wish 94.3 would have been more alternative sounding), Hudson Valley has 107.1, NJ has 105.5 WDHA.
BTW Neon Trees are on Leno right now, but you wont hear them on NYC radio in a few weeks. Seems NYC is an island of ignorance when it comes to radio programming as it has been for years. The loss of RXP for the 2nd time just proves it, esp when ratings are climbing higher than FAN on FM will, just look at 98.7! Oh thats right ratings dont count anymore :

If you can't work with PPM, go around it

 

[mrbrightside]

Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore.

The music that's getting ratings -- all that auto-tuned pop and hip hop you hate -- is billing well. Rock lost much of its most important source of growth -- the teens -- to rhythmic-based music years ago. How are they supposed to become rock listeners in their 20s and 30s when they become valuable to advertisers when the music they've grown up with and loved is as far away from rock as Gregorian chant? These are perilous times for rock; if no one rock "sound" emerges that can win over not only the existing rock fans but the teens and young adults now listening to Minaj and Pitbull, commercial radio will continue to shun it. In New York City, rock's troubles are compounded by the ethnic makeup of the market -- lots of folks with no history of liking rock or rock-based music.

Not true at all, turn your eyes south 80 miles, to Philadelphia, where the alternative station is number one in 18-49 and 25-54. These are not perilous times for rock, it's just that NYC ignores it. The biggest problem is the commuting factor in New York. Public transit users are going to use an ipod, not a radio.

Philadelphia must be an anomaly if what you say is true. Hartford's WCCC has a terrific signal and looks up at the market's CHR and Urban stations, not to mention its two ACs, book after book. Boston just lost WFNX, one of its two new rock stations, to Clear Channel's miscellaneous old rock format -- heavy on the '80s -- and WAAF struggles mightily. And this is in a market that has a reputation for favoring rock over rhythmic.

Wrong. Radio 104.1 is in the top ten a18-49. WBOS Radio 92.9 also in the top ten in a18-49.

 

[CTListener]

Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore.

The music that's getting ratings -- all that auto-tuned pop and hip hop you hate -- is billing well. Rock lost much of its most important source of growth -- the teens -- to rhythmic-based music years ago. How are they supposed to become rock listeners in their 20s and 30s when they become valuable to advertisers when the music they've grown up with and loved is as far away from rock as Gregorian chant? These are perilous times for rock; if no one rock "sound" emerges that can win over not only the existing rock fans but the teens and young adults now listening to Minaj and Pitbull, commercial radio will continue to shun it. In New York City, rock's troubles are compounded by the ethnic makeup of the market -- lots of folks with no history of liking rock or rock-based music.

Not true at all, turn your eyes south 80 miles, to Philadelphia, where the alternative station is number one in 18-49 and 25-54. These are not perilous times for rock, it's just that NYC ignores it. The biggest problem is the commuting factor in New York. Public transit users are going to use an ipod, not a radio.

Philadelphia must be an anomaly if what you say is true. Hartford's WCCC has a terrific signal and looks up at the market's CHR and Urban stations, not to mention its two ACs, book after book. Boston just lost WFNX, one of its two new rock stations, to Clear Channel's miscellaneous old rock format -- heavy on the '80s -- and WAAF struggles mightily. And this is in a market that has a reputation for favoring rock over rhythmic.

Wrong. Radio 104.1 is in the top ten a18-49. WBOS Radio 92.9 also in the top ten in a18-49.

Oops, forgot about those two, and Boston rimshotter WXRV as well. But the fact remains that all those stations are far from major players with advertisers and listeners compared to the CHR, AC and urban/rhythmic alternatives. BTW, WBOS is basically an iPod on shuffle play, bare-bones autopilot operation.

 

[mrbrightside]

Radio used to be about ratings, which helped keep popular music on the radio. Now its about billing, and the suits dont care which music gets listeners anymore.

The music that's getting ratings -- all that auto-tuned pop and hip hop you hate -- is billing well. Rock lost much of its most important source of growth -- the teens -- to rhythmic-based music years ago. How are they supposed to become rock listeners in their 20s and 30s when they become valuable to advertisers when the music they've grown up with and loved is as far away from rock as Gregorian chant? These are perilous times for rock; if no one rock "sound" emerges that can win over not only the existing rock fans but the teens and young adults now listening to Minaj and Pitbull, commercial radio will continue to shun it. In New York City, rock's troubles are compounded by the ethnic makeup of the market -- lots of folks with no history of liking rock or rock-based music.

Not true at all, turn your eyes south 80 miles, to Philadelphia, where the alternative station is number one in 18-49 and 25-54. These are not perilous times for rock, it's just that NYC ignores it. The biggest problem is the commuting factor in New York. Public transit users are going to use an ipod, not a radio.

Philadelphia must be an anomaly if what you say is true. Hartford's WCCC has a terrific signal and looks up at the market's CHR and Urban stations, not to mention its two ACs, book after book. Boston just lost WFNX, one of its two new rock stations, to Clear Channel's miscellaneous old rock format -- heavy on the '80s -- and WAAF struggles mightily. And this is in a market that has a reputation for favoring rock over rhythmic.

Wrong. Radio 104.1 is in the top ten a18-49. WBOS Radio 92.9 also in the top ten in a18-49.

Oops, forgot about those two, and Boston rimshotter WXRV as well. But the fact remains that all those stations are far from major players with advertisers and listeners compared to the CHR, AC and urban/rhythmic alternatives. BTW, WBOS is basically an iPod on shuffle play, bare-bones autopilot operation.

Says who? And yes, WBOS is run on the cheap, but does well.

 

[XCountry285]

New Rock 94.7!

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

Actually, I think there's a slightly better-than-even (about 55%) chance that when Cumulus gets 94.7, they will flip it to active rock.

I also see a 45% chance that 94.7 could be flipped to country, and an almost zero chance it will get flipped to anything else.

 

[XCountry285]

I'd rather it flip to Alternative. They own Alternative WRRV in Middletown and it does really well. Active Rock like K-Rock doesn't do well in NYC

 

[TonySantiago]

Why do I have a feeling that we ALL are going to get "sucker punched" and a format comes through that no one would have seen coming?

 

[CTListener]

Why do I have a feeling that we ALL are going to get "sucker punched" and a format comes through that no one would have seen coming?

Yeah, I'm thinking Jack or a similar rock/AC "we play everything" format with no live jocks. That's what Clear Channel put on 101.7 in Boston when they bought it from the Boston Phoenix, which had a fully staffed alternative rock station going there.