Who Won't Make It Thru 2011?

[radioguy39nj]

WWPR FM Power 105.1

Why? Power 105.1 is serving its purpose for CC, which is to fragment Hot 97's audience enough to keep Lite-FM in 1st place.

What's CC going to put on 105.1? Rush Radio? That won't get a bigger number than Power gets currently. If it did happen, Hot 97 would be the big winner.

Hot 97.1 is already winning no matter what happens to Power 105.1. But you also need to look at Lite 106.7 vs. WCBS FM 101.1. Now that's a battle

Hot 97 had a much larger share before Power 105.1 arrived. If CC flipped 105.1, Hot would pick up 2 shares at least. CC doesn't want that. Power is a spoiler for Hot and it protects Lite's ranking.

CBS-FM will probably do well in December, picking up listeners not interested in Lite's all-Christmas format.

 

[scott5]

Listening to WOR-(st managed radio) is like listening to a radio station from the '60s, so old fashioned no Jingles, Promos etc.

Savage and Malzberg has been the only positive result for WOR despite it being poorly managed. The only morning "local" morning show in town John Gambling on WOR is behind Imus in the ratings, that tells more about WOR than about the show's content.

Why doesn't WOR try to become a major player by moving into the modern era? It baffles the entire industry.

 

[davideduardo]

CBS-FM will probably do well in December, picking up listeners not interested in Lite's all-Christmas format.

Not likely. In "Holiday" 2009, CBS-FM had its lowest 25-54 numbers of the 5 books between November and February. WLTW had a 10.8, twice what CBS FM had, and the WLTW number was two-thirds higher than the average for months without the Christmas music.

In 12+, CBS-Fm was 20% lower in "Holiday" than even the month before, and over a third lower than the September-October range.

 

[mary]

well one thing I do know, WCBSFM will with great music, Great DJ's and love for their fans!!!

 

[mary]

only thing is I am over 54 and not in the listening range, I still say over 54 is listening. I talk to a lot of people over my age and they listen and like it. I will argue this with anyone, and our age does buy. They say we don't :-(

 

[davideduardo]

only thing is I am over 54 and not in the listening range, I still say over 54 is listening. I talk to a lot of people over my age and they listen and like it. I will argue this with anyone, and our age does buy. They say we don't :-(

Nobody says that persons 55+ don't buy things. However, advertisers in thier majority... particularly the major ones, don't advertise to that age group as it tends not to be profitable or to have a very low ROI. So stations generally make little or no money due to listenership over 55 years of age.

 

[Hardrocker9]

What if Fresh doesn't make it, and goes back to Mix102.7 with the classic dance format. I think it would work and might generate some big numbers since KTU abandoned that and is now a glorified Z 100 with some freestyle thrown in.

 

[oldies76]

So stations generally make little or no money due to listenership over 55 years of age.

Then what is CBS-FM's overall target audience, if many people over 54 actually do listen to the station.....especially specialties that feature some 50's and 60's music? Someone must be listening to these older songs.....otherwise most would not be played anymore. CBS-FM continues to play 60's music, with some success.

 

[radiolives]

Would it hurt either Fresh or WCBS-FM by going Christmas to compete with Lite-FM? I know WCBS-FM did it one year and I don't believe it worked out well. I believe Fresh 102.7 would have worked better. But not sure if it would hurt the Fresh audience which has picked up.

 

[JustinT]

WMAS is in Springfield, yes - and the entire FM dial in the northeast is very tightly packed, so there's no way to shift WMAS to another frequency as a B. There are 94.5s to contend with in Boston, Rutland VT and Ravena NY (south of Albany), 94.9s on Mount Washington NH and Frankfort NY, not to mention adjacent-channel issues with stations such as 95.1 Brookfield CT and Sunderland VT.

Downgrading WMAS to a B1 could work in theory; even then, you'd probably need a directional antenna for 94.7 on Empire, and that means you'd need a separate antenna for 94.7 from the master or mini-master antennas up there, which are non-directional. Once you start spending that kind of money, you may as well just pay Emmis what it wants for 101.9.

If that's the case, then how does 93.1 WPAT's signal work with 93.1 WHYN in Springfield? To my knowledge, neither one is directional.

 

[jmtillery]

I'm very happy to hear that WOR is doing so well. WOR is a heritage station and has many, in my opinion, excellent talk programs such as The Joan Hamburg Show. I can only imagine how much better WOR may perform if it were to move to FM.

WOR ... ... is very much perceived as being for the Geritol set.

Actually, as a listener, this is what I find appealing about WOR. It's different and stands out from WABC and all the other stations.

 

[jmtillery]

Listening to WOR-(st managed radio) is like listening to a radio station from the '60s, so old fashioned no Jingles, Promos etc.

As a listener, to me, this is part of the charm in WOR. It's unique and stands out from the other stations. And, no, I am not among the geriatric group. I'm still in my 40s.

 

[davideduardo]

Then what is CBS-FM's overall target audience, if many people over 54 actually do listen to the station.....

The target is 25-54.

Many formats, from AC to talk to Classic Rock and Urban AC get plenty of 55+ as part of the process of appealing to the upper end of 25-54. In a similar manner, CHR stations which principally target Women 18-34 get lots of teens, but they can't make any ad revenue from the younger end yet getting them is a natural byproduct of getting what they do want.

Almost all ad agency buys target all or a portion of the 18 to 54 age span. If an ad buy is very broad, the buy will include stations that are 18-34 specialists as well as others that are 35-54 or 25-44. Or they may target just men, in which case the first station on the buy is WFAN because that station is incredibly high rated in men under 55.

especially specialties that feature some 50's and 60's music? Someone must be listening to these older songs.....otherwise most would not be played anymore. CBS-FM continues to play 60's music, with some success.

Ad buys are mostly placed in 6 AM to 7 PM Monday to Friday. Very little paid advertising goes at night, and weekends tend to be lighter, too. The ratings we see on the Internet are not 6 a 7 p, and are not broken out by demographic groups.

Of course, there is considerably less listening to radio overall at night during weekdays, and nights on Saturday and Sunday are so lightly used that stations could sign off and see no change in ratings overall. So stations can use the dayparts that are not sold and the ones that have very light listening to appeal to build an image of authenticity without hurting the critical dayparts.

And remember that in the 70's, most Top 40 /CHR stations played gold and that included 60's songs... so the youth of the 70's was familiarized with the songs and that means the ones that perform well in research also have positives in the younger end of the true target demo.

 

[fybush]

If that's the case, then how does 93.1 WPAT's signal work with 93.1 WHYN in Springfield? To my knowledge, neither one is directional.

Their short-spacing predates the current spacing rules and is therefore grandfathered. Neither station can make changes that would increase the amount of interference created between the two.

WPAT-FM has not operated under fully-licensed facilities since a few minutes after 9 AM on 9/11/01. Its operation from Empire has been under long-term Special Temporary Authority while negotiations continue to license WPAT on Empire. The original application to relicense at Empire asked for a waiver of the FCC's short-spacing rules, arguing that the move from WTC to Empire would reduce grandfathered overlap between WPAT and WMMR 93.3 in Philadelphia while increasing overlap between WPAT and WHYN. It was dismissed, but SBS filed for reconsideration, and the whole thing hangs in FCC limbo for now.

 

[scott5]

@jmtillery

What you find so charming in WOR , is actually hurting their bottom line and causing them to be stuck in low ratings for the last 10 years...

 

[jmtillery]

@jmtillery

What you find so charming in WOR , is actually hurting their bottom line and causing them to be stuck in low ratings for the last 10 years...

Perhaps the ratings may improve somewhat by making programmimg modifications, however WOR, as an AM station, will never attract any meaningful demos in the lower end of the 25 - 54 spectrum due to the fact it is an AM station. Very few listeners under 50, with exceptions, listen to AM radio in 2010. This, of course, will change should WOR move to the FM band.

On the other hand WOR, as a standalone AM station, is still on the air doing what it has been doing for years and making a reasonable profit for parent Buckley Broadcasting.

 

[scott5]

Cant blame it all on AM, WCBS WINS are doing fine in the 25-54 demo.

 

[ansky212]

Perhaps the ratings may improve somewhat by making programmimg modifications, however WOR, as an AM station, will never attract any meaningful demos in the lower end of the 25 - 54 spectrum due to the fact it is an AM station. Very few listeners under 50, with exceptions, listen to AM radio in 2010.

I still don't buy into the argument that nobody is listening to AM anymore. Where are the numbers to prove that? I know many people that listen to sports radio on 660 and 1050 on a daily basis, myself included, and they are in the 25-30 demographic. The fact of the matter is that AM radio is primarily news and talk shows, which for the most part are not going to appeal to a younger audience. I think that's the reason younger people may be less likely to listen, not because they don't like the AM band. Move WOR to FM and it's not like all of sudden young people are going to start caring about talk radio. All these AM stations like WOR and WABC are just tireless banter. I don't know how anyone listens really.
Just like I know a lot of people who listen to NPR on FM. If NPR moved to AM I highly doubt people are going to stop listening if they care about the programming.

 

[davideduardo]

I still don't buy into the argument that nobody is listening to AM anymore. Where are the numbers to prove that?

The numbers are in Arbitron. The AM share of audience is in a gradual slow decline, and in some markets it is below 10%. In demos under 55, it's much lower.

But when traditional AMs (think WSB, KSL, KTAR, etc.) either move to FM or add a simulcast, the 25-54 numbers increase, sometimes astoundingly. In other words, were the programming on FM, there would be more under 55 listening... because those under 55 are part of the now two generations of Americans who grew up without much use for AM, a band which is synonymous to them with bad qality.

 

[jmtillery]

Cant blame it all on AM, WCBS WINS are doing fine in the 25-54 demo.

WINS and WCBS are both All News radio outlets which is a big difference from News-Talk. Due to the overall nature of all news programming, these stations will pull a very high cume that differs from news-talk, but delivers a lower AQH. This is because, although many are tuning in for news, traffic and weather conditions, once that information is delivered, listeners tune out with few remaining with the station longer than a few minutes at a time, but come back often, again, for updated news, traffic and weather reports throughout the day.

Also keep in mind that WINS and WCBS have the all news market covered for New York and it is highly doubtful a third all news outlet will survive, let alone turn a profit, considering the high cost associated with an all news radio operation. Additionally both stations are owned by CBS and share news resources; hence reducing the cost associated with operating two all news operations.

As for the WCBS and WINS respective demos, you will find the majority of those listening are commuters tuning in for traffic and weather in addition to news with the majority of those commuters falling in the upper end of the 25 - 54 spectrum. There are always exceptions, but overall, very few 25 year olds are tuning in to either WCBS nor WINS. Also, please note in my previous post I had said there are exceptions to the under 50 AM listening. In other words I did not say nor imply that under 50 non listening is an across the board absolute. Of course there are those who are 25 years of age who listen to AM radio; just not very many overall statistically speaking.

Lastly, for anyone who doesn't like WOR programming, there are a total of 112 local and distant signals that reach New York City, one of which I'm sure will please someone with even the most discriminating taste.

In conclusion, although there is always room for improvement when improvement is warranted, for now, WOR is fine the way it is with its current business and management model.