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Why didn't 98.3 work as CHR?

J

jkf

Guest
Quite a few years back... but - why didn't CHR work on 98.3? Musically, it didn't sound that bad - nice mix of urban, rock and pop. If B-94 were to have shut down prior to the current K-Rock during 98.3's time as CHR, would it have made a difference? The point being - KISS is so sloooooooow to play anything that is not CHR/Rhythmic. Sure you might hear Holiday/Green Day or Collide/Howie Day - but some of these type songs have been played on other CHR stations elsewhere for months. Often, Kiss will throw in some tired worn out Nickelback song that STAR has played to death instead of playing that new Weezer song. Why? If it's rock and it's on the top-40 why not play Beverly Hills/Weezer instead of something old? There are rock leaning songs on the top-20, and even more on the top-40 mainstream charts that rarely, if ever, get played on KISS. Yet sometimes, KISS will play 2 or even 3 recurrent or rhythmic-leaning gold in a row. That's not CHR in Pittsburgh, or anywhere else for that matter. If CHR were to return to Pittsburgh, who would it be, or what would have to happen? Personally, I wish one of the frogs would croak, especially the one on 104.3.
 
> The point being - KISS is so sloooooooow to
> play anything that is not CHR/Rhythmic.

Yes, this annoys the heck out of me as well.

>Sure you might hear
> Holiday/Green Day or Collide/Howie Day - but some of these
> type songs have been played on other CHR stations elsewhere
> for months. Often, Kiss will throw in some tired worn out
> Nickelback song that STAR has played to death instead of
> playing that new Weezer song. Why?

Yeah, they play the old rock songs like "Someday" by Nickelback and "Hanging By A Moment" by Lifehouse. They should be playing the songs you mentioned as well as others that are high on the charts:

D.H.T. Listen To Your Heart
NATASHA BEDINGFIELD These Words
COLDPLAY Speed of Sound
JESSICA SIMPSON These Boots Are Made...
ROB THOMAS This Is How A Heart ...

> If it's rock and it's on
> the top-40 why not play Beverly Hills/Weezer instead of
> something old?

Agreed. Atleast they are playing "Scars" by Papa Roach. Can't believe it.

>There are rock leaning songs on the top-20,
> and even more on the top-40 mainstream charts that rarely,
> if ever, get played on KISS. Yet sometimes, KISS will play 2
> or even 3 recurrent or rhythmic-leaning gold in a row.
> That's not CHR in Pittsburgh, or anywhere else for that
> matter.

It certainly isn't. Another annoying thing about KISS is the speed-ups which I think have got to go. If I'm traveling to another city and listen to a CHR, I never hear speed-ups. How common are speed-ups on CHR across the country? I guess KISS listeners enjoy "Scotty Talk to Girls" and "Hooked on Bonics" more than MUSIC at regular speed.

>If CHR were to return to Pittsburgh, who would it
> be, or what would have to happen? Personally, I wish one of
> the frogs would croak, especially the one on 104.3.

I'd like to see it return to 93.7 after Howard leaves and David Lee Roth flops miserably.
 
Speed-ups

> It certainly isn't. Another annoying thing about KISS is
> the speed-ups which I think have got to go. If I'm
> traveling to another city and listen to a CHR, I never hear
> speed-ups. How common are speed-ups on CHR across the
> country? I guess KISS listeners enjoy "Scotty Talk to
> Girls" and "Hooked on Bonics" more than MUSIC at regular
> speed.

It depends on the station...I would say 10-25%. Very few small-market CHR's speed-up...it requires extra equipment. Most Southern CHR's don't speed up either, for some reason.
 
Re: Speed-ups (I believe you mean "Pitching")

> It depends on the station...I would say 10-25%. Very few
> small-market CHR's speed-up...it requires extra equipment.
> Most Southern CHR's don't speed up either, for some reason.


LMAO... 10 - 25%??? Do you even realize what you're saying? Do you realize what it would sound like if you pitched (that's the term you're looking for, btw) a song 10 - 25%??? Chipmunks on caffeine, that's what it would sound like.

Actually, quite a few small-market CHR stations pitch... All that's needed is either an automation system that you can set to do it automatically (such as you can do with Prophet) or one that has the ability to pitch as part of its ripping program (Scott Studios)... or if you have the basic CD players that almost any station uses (Denon or comparable), you can pitch with those, usually up to 2%, if you have an engineer that is worth their salt and can set the players to do it for you when you rip the song into your automation.

My CHR pitches, somewhere between 1.0% and 2.0% (I know exactly how much, but it's not important to the discussion)... My competition pitches slightly higher than that. I also know, having worked there before I came here, how much WKST pitches... but that's not really any of your business, so I won't say. BUT, I can assure you that it is not "10 - 25%."

A lot more stations pitch than I think you realize... and it isn't just CHR that does it... Urban does, although not nearly as much.... Country does.... Rock does, but not usually more than 1.0%, otherwise the faster, more driven titles would sound awful... Pitching isn't just a CHR thing and I guarantee you that WKST is not the only station in Pittsburgh that does it.<P ID="signature">______________
Aaron Tyler
Afternoons / MD
WVZA / Marion - Carbondale, IL
www.kissfm927.com

Weekends / Swing
KSLZ / St. Louis
WAKZ / Youngstown, OH
</P>
 
Call it what you want, it sucks!

I realize you don't understand the concept of "artistic integrity", but if a band records a song at a certain tempo and in a certain key, that's the way it should be played on the air.

Radio station suits who tamper with songs by speeding them up are no different than vandals who'd paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa.

> > It depends on the station...I would say 10-25%. Very few
> > small-market CHR's speed-up...it requires extra equipment.
>
> > Most Southern CHR's don't speed up either, for some
> reason.
>
>
> LMAO... 10 - 25%??? Do you even realize what you're saying?
> Do you realize what it would sound like if you pitched
> (that's the term you're looking for, btw) a song 10 - 25%???
> Chipmunks on caffeine, that's what it would sound like.
>
> Actually, quite a few small-market CHR stations pitch... All
> that's needed is either an automation system that you can
> set to do it automatically (such as you can do with Prophet)
> or one that has the ability to pitch as part of its ripping
> program (Scott Studios)... or if you have the basic CD
> players that almost any station uses (Denon or comparable),
> you can pitch with those, usually up to 2%, if you have an
> engineer that is worth their salt and can set the players to
> do it for you when you rip the song into your automation.
>
> My CHR pitches, somewhere between 1.0% and 2.0% (I know
> exactly how much, but it's not important to the
> discussion)... My competition pitches slightly higher than
> that. I also know, having worked there before I came here,
> how much WKST pitches... but that's not really any of your
> business, so I won't say. BUT, I can assure you that it is
> not "10 - 25%."
>
> A lot more stations pitch than I think you realize... and it
> isn't just CHR that does it... Urban does, although not
> nearly as much.... Country does.... Rock does, but not
> usually more than 1.0%, otherwise the faster, more driven
> titles would sound awful... Pitching isn't just a CHR thing
> and I guarantee you that WKST is not the only station in
> Pittsburgh that does it.
>
 
Re: Speed-ups (I believe you mean "Pitching")

Ahh back in the day when I was on the air and we had turntables! We would place some editing tape around the capstan of the turntable to "speed the music up" to about 46 1/2 rpm's. Heck if I recall 89 WLS did it! Come on you young whipper snappers have some fun! We did it back in the 70's

Hey Aaron, what can I expect out of Saluki Football & Basketball this year? Also curious to know what ever happened to legend SIU Basketball coach Rich Herrin? ( I ran WMCl from '87-89 and TAO from '89-91..yep when it was in the garage/trailer complex.) <P ID="signature">______________
Henry Aaron hit 755 career home runs. How many of these were of the "inside the park" variety ?</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by trefdawg on 07/30/05 03:06 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Speed-ups (I believe you mean "Pitching")

> Hey Aaron, what can I expect out of Saluki Football &
> Basketball this year? Also curious to know what ever
> happened to legend SIU Basketball coach Rich Herrin? ( I ran
> WMCl from '87-89 and TAO from '89-91..yep when it was in the
> garage/trailer complex.)


Both teams ought to have solid seasons once again... Football is picked to win the Gateway Conference and I think (but I'm not sure) they are the preseason #6 or something like that in the I-AA poll.

I believe Mr. Herrin is coaching high school basketball again, but I'd have to check on that for ya.<P ID="signature">______________
Aaron Tyler
Afternoons / MD
WVZA / Marion - Carbondale, IL
www.kissfm927.com

Weekends / Swing
KSLZ / St. Louis
WAKZ / Youngstown, OH
</P>
 
Re: Call it what you want, it sucks!

Frankly I just got tired of all the crap after B94 left and began listening to country again! I now am a Y108 addict! I used to listen to country when I was young and now I am again. Screw KISS and all of it's crap!

<P ID="signature">______________
-S</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by youngabe89 on 07/31/05 03:08 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Speed-ups (I believe you mean "Pitching")

Is there anyway to do that in like Windows Media Player or Realplayer? I'd like to mess around with that! <P ID="signature">______________
-S</P>
 
"Pitching"

> Ahh back in the day when I was on the air and we had
> turntables! We would place some editing tape around the
> capstan of the turntable to "speed the music up" to about 46
> 1/2 rpm's. Heck if I recall 89 WLS did it! Come on you young
> whipper snappers have some fun! We did it back in the 70's

And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 13Q was up to as high as 8% at one point in the mid-70s. And yes, it did sound like Mickey--but then again, maybe Buzz was looking for that.
 
Re: 1-2%

> LMAO... 10 - 25%??? Do you even realize what you're saying?
> Do you realize what it would sound like if you pitched
> (that's the term you're looking for, btw) a song 10 - 25%???
> Chipmunks on caffeine, that's what it would sound like.

No, I meant 10-25% of CHR stations pitch...er...speed up. I know what a song at 10% pitching sounds like...and it's crap (try using the plug-in on Winamp)

Sorry for confusion!

Radio-X
 
Re: Speed-ups (I believe you mean "Pitching")

There was a pitch knob on the equipment when WKST was WPHH (as in Mix 96.1, year 2000). I think it even came over from Ardmore Blvd. Why do you all act like it's new?


> > It depends on the station...I would say 10-25%. Very few
> > small-market CHR's speed-up...it requires extra equipment.
>
> > Most Southern CHR's don't speed up either, for some
> reason.
>
>
> LMAO... 10 - 25%??? Do you even realize what you're saying?
> Do you realize what it would sound like if you pitched
> (that's the term you're looking for, btw) a song 10 - 25%???
> Chipmunks on caffeine, that's what it would sound like.
>
> Actually, quite a few small-market CHR stations pitch... All
> that's needed is either an automation system that you can
> set to do it automatically (such as you can do with Prophet)
> or one that has the ability to pitch as part of its ripping
> program (Scott Studios)... or if you have the basic CD
> players that almost any station uses (Denon or comparable),
> you can pitch with those, usually up to 2%, if you have an
> engineer that is worth their salt and can set the players to
> do it for you when you rip the song into your automation.
>
> My CHR pitches, somewhere between 1.0% and 2.0% (I know
> exactly how much, but it's not important to the
> discussion)... My competition pitches slightly higher than
> that. I also know, having worked there before I came here,
> how much WKST pitches... but that's not really any of your
> business, so I won't say. BUT, I can assure you that it is
> not "10 - 25%."
>
> A lot more stations pitch than I think you realize... and it
> isn't just CHR that does it... Urban does, although not
> nearly as much.... Country does.... Rock does, but not
> usually more than 1.0%, otherwise the faster, more driven
> titles would sound awful... Pitching isn't just a CHR thing
> and I guarantee you that WKST is not the only station in
> Pittsburgh that does it.
>
 
Re: 1-2%

> No, I meant 10-25% of CHR stations pitch...er...speed up. I
> know what a song at 10% pitching sounds like...and it's crap
> (try using the plug-in on Winamp)

So is pitching it even 1%.

It's amazing how the same people who refuse to accept any opinions on radio from anyone who isn't currently working radio think their knowledge of music and what sounds good is holy writ when most of them couldn't carry a tune in a bushel basket, let alone play a musican instrument.

Here's how it works. Musicians CREATE the music. Radio people just DELIVER it to listeners. If you don't like the key or tempo a song is recorded in, go back the the musicians and ask them to re-do it for you. Don't take it on yourselved to tamper with their creations.
 
Re: Speed-ups (I believe you mean "Pitching")

> There was a pitch knob on the equipment when WKST was WPHH
> (as in Mix 96.1, year 2000). I think it even came over from
> Ardmore Blvd. Why do you all act like it's new?
>

Even the most basic of all sound equipment has a pitch knob. Club DJ's have been pitching songs for as long as they've been playing in clubs, and radio has been doing the same thing! Hell, even my stereo when I was in elementary school had a pitch knob. We all thought it was grand fun to play our albums at "chipmunk speed". "Pitching" is so old-school it isn't funny, and you'd be amazed at the number of stations that "pitch". It may be the very slightest increase in speed, but the theory is that picking up the speed of a song helps a station from sounding slow, murky, and bogged down. Whether it does or not really is all within the listener's perception -- not that the listener even notices. Most of the time you can't even tell a song has been "pitched", even if you listen very carefully to the pitched version on the radio and the CD version. Even if you counted beats per minute, you wouldn't notice that much of an increase in the speed of the song.
 
Re: Call it what you want, it sucks!

> I realize you don't understand the concept of "artistic
> integrity", but if a band records a song at a certain tempo
> and in a certain key, that's the way it should be played on
> the air.
>
> Radio station suits who tamper with songs by speeding them
> up are no different than vandals who'd paint a mustache on
> the Mona Lisa.
>
>
If radio actually gave a fat rat's rear-end about "artist integrity", we would have no such thing as "highly researched playlists".... We'd be able to play what we wanted, when we wanted, without any regard to the "extensive research" done to decide what it is we want the listener to think they want to hear.

Truth is, pitching isn't the only way radio "tampers" with songs. What about radio edits and songs that are cut short for time or have lyrics cut for whatever reason? How many stations in town have managed to squeeze "Pittsburgh" into a song that names particular cities? It's not just in the 'burgh, it's everywhere. But at the point a song gets played on the radio, whether it is tampered with or not, I don't think the artist is really going to complain. The fact is the song was selected and given airtime when it very easily could have never been played at all, and the artists probably realize that. What difference would it make when they can get the version THEY want played out there on their CD's, on the internet, and in concert. Even then, look at how many artists change songs in one way or another when they play them live.
 
Re: Speed-ups (I believe you mean "Pitching")

> "Pitching" is so old-school
> it isn't funny, and you'd be amazed at the number of
> stations that "pitch". It may be the very slightest
> increase in speed, but the theory is that picking up the
> speed of a song helps a station from sounding slow, murky,
> and bogged down. Whether it does or not really is all within
> the listener's perception -- not that the listener even
> notices. Most of the time you can't even tell a song has
> been "pitched", even if you listen very carefully to the
> pitched version on the radio and the CD version. Even if
> you counted beats per minute, you wouldn't notice that much
> of an increase in the speed of the song.
>

No, but you do notice the extra commercials that stations squeeze in...all brought to you by everyone's friend, "1.5%".

Quite the opposite of Dan Ingram during the 1965 blackout: "That was 'Up A Lazy River' in the key of 'R'."
 
Re: Call it what you want, it sucks!

When I'm in Washington County I listen to Kiss Wheeling.

http://www.kisswheeling.com/main.html

It's a pretty good station that reminds me alot of B94. They play a great mix of songs with very little if any pitching. I wish that it came in more clear in Washington. Unfortunately I can't get it in at all in Allegheny County. Why can't we have a station like this in Pittsburgh to complement 96.1 Kiss?

> Frankly I just got tired of all the crap after B94 left and
> began listening to country again! I now am a Y108 addict!
> I used to listen to country when I was young and now I am
> again. Screw KISS and all of it's crap!
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by dave35 on 08/02/05 04:28 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: 1-2%

> What plug-in should I get for WinAmp to be able to play with
> this?!
>
PaceMaker Tempo Control...it's pretty bad, but fun.
 
Re: Call it what you want, it sucks!

Those other things you mention also suck!

> If radio actually gave a fat rat's rear-end about "artist
> integrity", we would have no such thing as "highly
> researched playlists".... We'd be able to play what we
> wanted, when we wanted, without any regard to the "extensive
> research" done to decide what it is we want the listener to
> think they want to hear.
>
> Truth is, pitching isn't the only way radio "tampers" with
> songs. What about radio edits and songs that are cut short
> for time or have lyrics cut for whatever reason? How many
> stations in town have managed to squeeze "Pittsburgh" into
> a song that names particular cities? It's not just in the
> 'burgh, it's everywhere. But at the point a song gets
> played on the radio, whether it is tampered with or not, I
> don't think the artist is really going to complain. The
> fact is the song was selected and given airtime when it very
> easily could have never been played at all, and the artists
> probably realize that. What difference would it make when
> they can get the version THEY want played out there on their
> CD's, on the internet, and in concert. Even then, look at
> how many artists change songs in one way or another when
> they play them live.
>
 
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