Why do people hate dance music?

[Wildstyle K]

Re: re Tool:

re:
pitbull, does he know he is sampling previous dance artist material,
or just have a producer who has a great ear for music ?
and who is "next" ( no peeking, if u have heard the song, via the full-length
album/itunes.store,etc) do not post - -

Pitbull knows dance music. He himself has mentioned a few times he grew up with house, freestyle, latin house, breaks...etc. He is very aware of all the songs he has sampled, which is no surprise at all with him being from Florida and working + hanging out with people like Dj Laz.

That sound Pitbull loves is the same exact sound I was obsessed with while growing up, that rhythmic "party station" / rhythmic latin sound, which is where my love for both dance and rhythmic radio were born and intensified. I'm not sure how many other artists of today are also familiar with that latin house, rhythmic dance, and freestyle sound, but regardless, In addition to Dj Laz, Jonny Z, and Pitbull, also love Akon, Flo Rida, Will-I-Am, and many others who are modernizing the sound. I know Missy and Timbaland were pretty much the ones to re-jumpstart this modernized rhythmic dance sound with "Sexy Back" and "Lose Control", (which i believe was much more effective than the slow 1,2 step....), but I must say Flo Rida, Will-I-Am, Pitbull, Akon...etc. have come along and perfected the modernized sound. If it weren't for them to step up and bravely and creatively do so, everything would probably still be sounding more like Britney's "gimmie more" or Keri Hilson's "the way I are" or "sexy back" or maybe even Fergie's "Fergalicious", with Ne-yo's "closer" and Chris Brown's "forever" and Rihanna's "don't stop the music" being the danciest stuff so far in top 40/rhythmic radio... . .. ..and if this was how the turn of events were to have unfolded, I'd probably be sitting somewhere in a room right now weeping uncontrollably.

At one time we had a clear difference between hip hop, pop, booty bass, freestyle, house, latin house, and euro-dance. What we have today is more like a combination of most of those elements fused together in many songs to make a "new sound". However, Pitbull is pretty much the only one using the latin house elements in rhythmic top 40 today.

 

[Dancerev889]

First off, with the freestyle. There are probably more bad singers now then when freestyle was new and the hot sound. Think about every bedroom producer creating a track. It costs a lot less now than it did then to produce music. This also goes for every genre of music in the world.

In response to the comment about having information about artists, djs and producers. There has been quite a few times we have tried to find information about an artist and we come up short. Heck the label doesnt even know. The labels are not sending out a bio sheet and the most important part, how to pronounce the artists name. With more artists and djs coming from overseas its becoming more difficult to get this information.

The other issue is that there are some labels that go with the throw it against the wall and see what sticks. We get 7 or 8 singles at once from a label. How can a label develop or promote all those singles to radio?

 

[2Son]

First off, with the freestyle. There are probably more bad singers now then when freestyle was new and the hot sound. Think about every bedroom producer creating a track. It costs a lot less now than it did then to produce music. This also goes for every genre of music in the world.

In response to the comment about having information about artists, djs and producers. There has been quite a few times we have tried to find information about an artist and we come up short. Heck the label doesnt even know. The labels are not sending out a bio sheet and the most important part, how to pronounce the artists name. With more artists and djs coming from overseas its becoming more difficult to get this information.

The other issue is that there are some labels that go with the throw it against the wall and see what sticks. We get 7 or 8 singles at once from a label. How can a label develop or promote all those singles to radio?

There are promotional services that cater to dance music who DO offer information about artists, dj's, producers, etc. (and I'm not talking PromoOnly).

 

[mleach]

A lot of people dislike country, but you mostly hear people say that. You'll rarely see that in written/typed form.

This was actually discussed before. The reason why so many people even though they may say they hate country music but won't say it in written/type form is because..well people don't want to be accused as being "anti-American" or even "anti-God. For some reason there are people such as my late grandmother who considered country music in the same ballpark as religious music.As much as I loved my grandmother I never understood that logic since at the time I was working at a country music station and I can remember quite a few times looking at the albums and cds we had where one song could be about Jesus while the next song on the same cd was about somebody trying to hook up with someone in a bar. But still she would go on "country music is as clean as Christian music is" while I would say "..Grandma..listen to the lyrics !!!"

 

[JohnParker]

There are promotional services that cater to dance music who DO offer information about artists, dj's, producers, etc. (and I'm not talking PromoOnly).

So then I'm sure that you'd be happy to share who those promo services are, right?

jp

 

[2Son]

There are promotional services that cater to dance music who DO offer information about artists, dj's, producers, etc. (and I'm not talking PromoOnly).

So then I'm sure that you'd be happy to share who those promo services are, right?

jp

Radio Ventures Inc. radioventuresinc.com with their Beatbox (and NovaXposure) would always send me information on the artists and songs listed on their CD's.

 

[Radio_bored-Op]

country music crossed my mind; since to me,
it is the opposite of my musical tastes...
where i (and every one will like 1992-garth brooks)
and that biggest/best selling album...
(that could be like a dance artist, such as . . . Snap)...
yea, that Power song is awesome ( that friends,low places, great music !)...

but, if you are a fan of snap, and "welcome to tomorrow" comes on...
wow, the live 2 air is spinning this one in - sweet / nice pick....
not a fan, all that techno blends together(unintentionally a compliement?sp),
but not what you want to hear....
-another later (chris barnes?,or what ever he did,mid 90s), is played on the
yee haw noon request show and say all this hick/western music is ___________.
(labeling it, as one does to 'techno')...makes some one who enjoys
country, (either current country, country gold, etc), stop and get defensive
. . . because there is a difference. ( of course we know that here ) but ,
normal / annoying people, may precieve(sp?) it all one genre.

-just as the remix, or cover has made it "all techno"(ie:dj-sammy,heaven) / i am certain the same
cold front is offered to the country (or even soft ac) audience when a rock
band covers their music. what ever you identify with *first, first being the key word *
you will take as your own. this trend of godsmack, and a few others taking
phil collins songs, and even wham either hits or misses - with the audience
that liked the original first....same may be applied to our beloved dance genre...

what reeely sucks though:
in reverse, the pet shop boys*?(1988) release "bizarre love triange" ( a personal fave!),esp
the 7minute extra beat mix....and in 1994, frente' covers it, the entire car, said,
"board_op," there is your techno friends ruining another one....smiling on the inside,
trying to explain this one . . was not fun!

 

[Gusto]

in reverse, the pet shop boys*?(1988) release "bizarre love triange" ( a personal fave!),

New Order 1986

 

[Radio_bored-Op]

was it reeely '86, i remember
luvin' it in the summers of 88 or so...
hey, im always a lil late to the party!
(im okay with it : )

still one of my fave's!

 

[Wildstyle K]

That's still way better than me discovering Stevie B in December 1996

 

[TonySantiago]

Tony,

I was thinking deeply about this nearly 1.5 years ago. Even when listening to many of the dance stations, (whether they were the Energy's or Party's, etc..) the element missing seemed to be the education of dance music for the masses. If you are trying to lure new listeners to dance music, why not have information on the artists, dj's, vocalists, etc so that the new listeners can feel more "in touch" with who they are listening to? Let's get to know who these people are, where they come from, etc. I was even interested in displaying a section like this on my website, but alas the cost for continuing my own station was too much. In addition, we know that dance stations crank out new music faster than most people can keep up - so to the "average listener", this would seem very overwhelming for them to try to keep up with all the new artists, especially if they do not know who they are in the first place.

I think some of the labels are to blame for that. Don't get me wrong, the hottie on the cover with a bikini sucking on a lollipop seductively is nice, but that doesn't tell me crap about the artists on such a compilation. Neither does a blue cover with just the artists/DJ/remixer and the title of the track. To a degree I do see artists appearing on covers and that is a good thing because, yeah, they are the ones who sing the track, and if you want to showcase some of the remixers, that is fine too! I've always felt that education is important because that can only help dance music grow and if the haters want to hate, fine, but at least they can see there is more to the music with the information out there, than just that bikini clad hottie sucking on a lollipop seductively.

 

[Dancerev889]

There are promotional services that cater to dance music who DO offer information about artists, dj's, producers, etc. (and I'm not talking PromoOnly).

So then I'm sure that you'd be happy to share who those promo services are, right?

jp

But shouldnt the record label provide that to the stations? There are a few record labels and promoters that get it right. The others well thats a whole other story. It is easier than ever to send this type of information. Email is free. In the perfect world I would love to see a bio sheet with how to pronounce the artist or djs name, a jpeg of the album or single cover and a jpeg promo shot, which we could use on the website and some station ID's Then if the record gets played a phoner or in studio interview.


As a station manager I we try to educate or audience but that means label support.

Radio Ventures Inc. radioventuresinc.com with their Beatbox (and NovaXposure) would always send me information on the artists and songs listed on their CD's.

 

[d21ofnj]

Well, a little Jersey Shore love from a few haters, and if you're from Jersey, you'll know what I mean. This past saturday, I happen to be around Pt. Pleasant/Maasquan area promoting 967party.com. Now, I am surprised some of the bumpers that I posted were still around, not to mention a few others that fans of the station had stuck around, but one thing that threw me off guard but was no shock to me, I noticed a "Benny Go Home" logo posted on top of the 96.7 Party logo covering the website. Now, there are those haters out there and I am aware of that, but the labeling of dance music has gotten way out of hand. I realize I shouldn't think this way, but that makes it seem that the "Benny Go Home" campaign labels 96.7 Party as a "station for Bennies" as what they call people from Northern NJ and NY. But it just so happens to be that 96.7 Party was launched from Oakhurst, which is where I resided. So, if 96.7 Party is just for "Bennies", then what do you call the "locals" that enjoy dance music and listen to the stream?

 

[MarcB]

I don't hate dance music. I just can't get into it. I've listened a few times to the stream of PULSE 87. That being said I still give props to Tony and his coalition.

 

[nd2023]

I don't hate dance music. I just can't get into it. I've listened a few times to the stream of PULSE 87. That being said I still give props to Tony and his coalition.

It's fine to hate dance music, but people who attack the listeners of dance music are messed up.

We get threads like these:
Dance Music: OK Philly You are Next http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=93243.0
get moved to Take It Outside because a few idiots have to open their mouth and start yapping negative things about the format: http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=93878.msg719713

Then, after the Pulse 87 beg-a-thon, we get this thread: A Suggestion to the Dance Music fanatics... http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,149277.html which also gets moved to Take It Outside because of one idiot's reaction to a post from an innocent girl that just happens to like the station http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=150286.0

We don't have as many fights about other formats. I don't recall seeing so much hate after an alternative rock station turned into a CHR station, despite the fact that a lot of alt rock fans hate CHR.

 

[Wildstyle K]

I don't hate dance music. I just can't get into it. I've listened a few times to the stream of PULSE 87. That being said I still give props to Tony and his coalition.

It's fine to hate dance music, but people who attack the listeners of dance music are messed up.

We get threads like these:
Dance Music: OK Philly You are Next http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=93243.0
get moved to Take It Outside because a few idiots have to open their mouth and start yapping negative things about the format: http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=93878.msg719713

Then, after the Pulse 87 beg-a-thon, we get this thread: A Suggestion to the Dance Music fanatics... http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,149277.html which also gets moved to Take It Outside because of one idiot's reaction to a post from an innocent girl that just happens to like the station http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=150286.0

We don't have as many fights about other formats. I don't recall seeing so much hate after an alternative rock station turned into a CHR station, despite the fact that a lot of alt rock fans hate CHR.

And this is the exact reason right here I have stopped posting on many sites! The exact reason is perfectly displayed right here, right now! Too many people who love to talk with the intent to start drama and create all sorts of unnecessary trouble, and I explain in full, precise detail how I feel about this type of behavior, here: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=142515645&blogId=486544669 and I don't think I could explain it any clearer than that. People that know me know clearly that I do not like unnecessary trouble, or people who intentionally do and say things with the ONLY purpose behind it being to create a problem. It's one thing to state a constructive opinion, and it's one thing to make sarcastic jokes, and it's one thing to genuinely not have a taste, interest for something, but it's a completely different thing to just speak, knowing that everything you are saying has no purpose or meaning other than to upset people or start trouble.

As a matter of fact, sometimes the best thing to do is say all that you have to say all at once in full, clear, precise detail, then shut up, sit back, and watch it unfold as people say whatever they have to say. Sometimes this is so much better than arguing, and also, if you say it all at once and you're done, there can't be an argument because it's impossible to argue with someone who has already finished saying everything they had to say in full, precise detail.

For example, I'll use the freestyle dance music sites for example; There's always argument about "what is freestyle?" and people who hate on others for modernizing or accepting the modernized sound...etc. There was a time I used to sit there like a fool and argue, then there was a time when I just said what I had to say and shut up, and now I just stopped posting on (U.S.) freestyle music boards because I figured; why continue talking about something when nobody even knows what it is? People can't even make up their mind about what freestyle, or even dance music is. Besides, I've already said most of what I've had to say on it, so I might as well stop because all I will do is start repeating myself. Now I go there and see everyone saying today, the EXACT, PRECISE same things that many were pissed about and hating on when I first introduced it back in 2006 - "OMG - dance music is coming back and the freestyle sound is too!" Also, once people start saying something I've already discussed in full detail, I just shut up, because why talk when everyone else starts saying it for you?

Oh well... there is so much more I could say, but..... no. Just let people continue to hate on dance music and the lovers of it as MUSIC AND TRENDS CONTINUE TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. This is just like back in the "early days" when some people came along and tried to warn their government about a hurricane coming, but they didn't want to believe it so they just talked down on those people for bringing it up, and....um... well, (how do I put this delicately?) In the end, that government was literally "dead, wrong".

A lot of people have nothing better to do with their time than to sit there and try to start trouble, unnecessarily hate on other people, or expect everyone to live precisely up to the way THEY believe things should be. Many of these same people cannot understand the very very, very very very simple fact that just because they dislike dance or a certain type of music, that does not mean everyone else that exists on this entire planet must think and see everything the exact same way they do. It's EXTREMELY simple to me. If you do not like something that's of no cost to you, then don't listen. The others who do enjoy it, will. Many of these people who are hating on others for liking something are the same people who would be highly upset if the exact same thing were done to them.

And lastly, when the dance community themselves cannot even make up their minds about the music, what is acceptable, and what isn't, then this doesn't help anything. Notice how the hip hop artists don't care. They'll just rap on everything and be glad to call it hip hop and r&b, so whether the dance community accepts a certain sound or not for whatever reasons, the hip hop community has no problem taking credit for any sound anyone else might not accept (and teaching the kids that it is hip hop). If we're not careful, then much of the dance music will just become "the modernized sound of hip hop and pop", as everything else the hip hop community refuses to accept remains underground, and we will loose the huge possibility that exists right now for change. I may say that a dance station should play more "real" dance hits, but this does not mean I wouldn't say mainstream dance or dance with pop / rap vocals isn't dance. It's all dance - including much of Akon, Pitbull, Flo Rida...etc. I just use the word "real" in most cases because it's convenient and understood by most.

Anyway, ....have a great day.

 

[Dancerev889]

I don't hate dance music. I just can't get into it. I've listened a few times to the stream of PULSE 87. That being said I still give props to Tony and his coalition.

It's fine to hate dance music, but people who attack the listeners of dance music are messed up.

We get threads like these:
Dance Music: OK Philly You are Next http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=93243.0
get moved to Take It Outside because a few idiots have to open their mouth and start yapping negative things about the format: http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=93878.msg719713

Then, after the Pulse 87 beg-a-thon, we get this thread: A Suggestion to the Dance Music fanatics... http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,149277.html which also gets moved to Take It Outside because of one idiot's reaction to a post from an innocent girl that just happens to like the station http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=150286.0

We don't have as many fights about other formats. I don't recall seeing so much hate after an alternative rock station turned into a CHR station, despite the fact that a lot of alt rock fans hate CHR.

You are talking about people who post on a message board about radio. The problem is that on those other boards you keep fighting a no win situation. They keep asking for proof and you can not back it up. Sometimes you just have to let them win the fight and look at the big picture. Honestly does it really matter what anyone things who posts on here? Is it going to lose listeners of genre? No, 99% of listeners do not even or know or care about a radio message board. The Philly board is a no win situation and has been like that for years. Some of them are now posting on the NYC board.

The Pulse situation isnt good. Yeah they did a lot programming but at the end of the day, its what the owner didnt do that everyone is going to remember.

 

[TonySantiago]

The Pulse situation isnt good. Yeah they did a lot programming but at the end of the day, its what the owner didnt do that everyone is going to remember.

Well, that's the point that needs to hit home. Because when the station does go, people will blame it on the format and not the real problem. Thank you Brett!

@MarcB....thank you!

 

[Morpheux]

For example, I'll use the freestyle dance music sites for example; There's always argument about "what is freestyle?" and people who hate on others for modernizing or accepting the modernized sound...etc. There was a time I used to sit there like a fool and argue, then there was a time when I just said what I had to say and shut up, and now I just stopped posting on (U.S.) freestyle music boards because I figured; why continue talking about something when nobody even knows what it is? People can't even make up their mind about what freestyle, or even dance music is. Besides, I've already said most of what I've had to say on it, so I might as well stop because all I will do is start repeating myself. Now I go there and see everyone saying today, the EXACT, PRECISE same things that many were pissed about and hating on when I first introduced it back in 2006 - "OMG - dance music is coming back and the freestyle sound is too!" Also, once people start saying something I've already discussed in full detail, I just shut up, because why talk when everyone else starts saying it for you?

Oh well... there is so much more I could say, but..... no. Just let people continue to hate on dance music and the lovers of it as MUSIC AND TRENDS CONTINUE TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. This is just like back in the "early days" when some people came along and tried to warn their government about a hurricane coming, but they didn't want to believe it so they just talked down on those people for bringing it up, and....um... well, (how do I put this delicately?) In the end, that government was literally "dead, wrong".

A lot of people have nothing better to do with their time than to sit there and try to start trouble, unnecessarily hate on other people, or expect everyone to live precisely up to the way THEY believe things should be. Many of these same people cannot understand the very very, very very very simple fact that just because they dislike dance or a certain type of music, that does not mean everyone else that exists on this entire planet must think and see everything the exact same way they do. It's EXTREMELY simple to me. If you do not like something that's of no cost to you, then don't listen. The others who do enjoy it, will. Many of these people who are hating on others for liking something are the same people who would be highly upset if the exact same thing were done to them.

And lastly, when the dance community themselves cannot even make up their minds about the music, what is acceptable, and what isn't, then this doesn't help anything. Notice how the hip hop artists don't care. They'll just rap on everything and be glad to call it hip hop and r&b, so whether the dance community accepts a certain sound or not for whatever reasons, the hip hop community has no problem taking credit for any sound anyone else might not accept (and teaching the kids that it is hip hop). If we're not careful, then much of the dance music will just become "the modernized sound of hip hop and pop", as everything else the hip hop community refuses to accept remains underground, and we will loose the huge possibility that exists right now for change. I may say that a dance station should play more "real" dance hits, but this does not mean I wouldn't say mainstream dance or dance with pop / rap vocals isn't dance. It's all dance - including much of Akon, Pitbull, Flo Rida...etc. I just use the word "real" in most cases because it's convenient and understood by most.

Anyway, ....have a great day.

Here's the thing about the freestyle boards,most are in their 30's or above. You get 20 s0methings that drop in from time to time but they get run off because thei taste is too modern for the older crowd.Freestyle has been out for more than 25 years or so depending on what you consider to be the first freestyle track and is still being made regardless of when it peaked.

I used to butt heads with most of what I like to call the "traditionalists" (even though I'm 34 myself) but then I thought....Classic Rock fans who listen to the likes of Black Sabbath,Led Zeppelin or Aerosmith are not listening to Korn,Linkin Park or Cage The Elephant for the most part or care to at all. Even though it's obvious that the new r&b is relying more and more on what are consider to be freestyle beats.

Such as the new Chris Brown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKdaU7MOWE

Jay Sean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m34xyw8E-Qs


Or pop acts like this one from Britney Spears and Lady Gaga:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYOf2twY9zE&feature=fvw


Even Jordin Sparks has remade Shannon's "Let The Music Play"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU80l4PkHB8


I agree with your assesment on how the dance music is having such a difficult time accepting new uptempo music as dance. I think that perhaps we're starting to see a generational gap with dance fans who probably grew up with the 90's dance sound. There's a new dance sound emerging on the pop scene and not everyone is going to embrace it.

 

[TonySantiago]

Here's the thing about the freestyle boards,most are in their 30's or above. You get 20 s0methings that drop in from time to time but they get run off because thei taste is too modern for the older crowd.Freestyle has been out for more than 25 years or so depending on what you consider to be the first freestyle track and is still being made regardless of when it peaked.

I used to butt heads with most of what I like to call the "traditionalists" (even though I'm 34 myself) but then I thought....Classic Rock fans who listen to the likes of Black Sabbath,Led Zeppelin or Aerosmith are not listening to Korn,Linkin Park or Cage The Elephant for the most part or care to at all. Even though it's obvious that the new r&b is relying more and more on what are consider to be freestyle beats.

Such as the new Chris Brown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKdaU7MOWE

Jay Sean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m34xyw8E-Qs


Or pop acts like this one from Britney Spears and Lady Gaga:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYOf2twY9zE&feature=fvw


Even Jordin Sparks has remade Shannon's "Let The Music Play"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU80l4PkHB8


I agree with your assesment on how the dance music is having such a difficult time accepting new uptempo music as dance. I think that perhaps we're starting to see a generational gap with dance fans who probably grew up with the 90's dance sound. There's a new dance sound emerging on the pop scene and not everyone is going to embrace it.

OMG! Did you steal that from one of my posts on the freestyle boards? lol

The part about classic rock is something I ALWAYS harp on when I talk to freestyle fans. If "freestyle" as we know it is going to make some sort of comeback it....

1) Has to cater to the 20 somethings.
2) Can't sound anything like the classic freestyle of the 80's and early 90's
3) Drop the name "freestyle" altogether.

I've been throwing out "Latin R&B" as a possible name because it does go back to the history (in the sense of "Latin Hip-Hop), but being that it is about singing and relating to the lifestyle of that crowd, that is where the R&B comes in. And as far as it goes, yes the Latino aspect is covered but also Italians have "Latin" in their culture as well...so it works out