why do they ignore serving this audiance

[imhomerjay]

Was there support for progressive rock back in the late 60s/early 70s? No. Management did give the format time to develop. It did pretty well for a few years. It morphed into a real moneymaker for a while.

Going back 30-40 years and saying the business environment then is even remotely comparable to today's world isn't dreaming, it's ignoring reality.

There are loads of people that have found their music fix through other delivery systems,,, Satellite,,, Internet. They aren't coming back to radio unless we give them something they want. And if its a nitch format they want, why not give it to them. If managed correctly, there is no reason nitch stations can't make a profit.

I think that's a niche format. In fact, that's what WUBA is doing--programming to a niche. Maybe not yours, maybe not mine, but that doesn't mean said niche doesn't exist.

As to the bigger question of satellite and Internet listening, it's the same principle as cable TV. There aren't enough fans in one city to devote a full-time channel to cooking...or history...or all comedy...or business news...or game shows...

But, when you scoop up the smaller audiences across the country, or the world as it may be, you may have a viable business model.

Technology marches on, and business is business. Dreaming is great if you have the money to throw at it without worrying how the bills will get paid. However, that's not a reality for most people.

 

[Radio-X]

I'm beating a dead horse here, but...

Given the fact that I was in an "alternative subculture" during HS/College and hung out with goths, punks, metalheads, etc...I can tell you that very few who live the (insert subculture here) lifestyle are not making big bucks, nor are they very valuable to most radio people.

Take your stereotypical 25 yr old punk. We'll say they make $25k/year working at a bookstore as a manger. What does he/she/it spend most of their money on? Cars? Probably not. Mortgage payments? Nope. They tend to spend their money on basic living expenses, music, (in many cases) clubs/alcohol/drugs, and clothing.

You really can't make a format that sustains off of record stores, beer ads, clubs, and Hot Topic. Even if these alternative subcultures made up 5% of the population, and you were guaranteed 75% would listen! You just ain't gonna make it!

Radio is after the average person. They spend their money on houses, cars, eating out, lottery tix and more. They bring home 95% of the bacon in any radio market...even if its a rock station. Ever wonder why goth/punk/heavy metal music gets a couple hours of airplay a week? It just can't sell anymore than that!

OK, so beat me to a bloody pulp now, I'm done

Radio-X

 

[sack]

Radio is a business. OK We agree on that.
Business needs to make profie. We agree on that too.
What we don't agree on is the way to go about making that profit.

I believe personality and creativity are what makes radio good,,, even great. Radio is there for listeners, not only as a vehicle to sell your product. I still believe that if you have a good station, one that is real, alive, in touch with the community, you will succeed. You don't have to own the market to succeed, just own your little piece of it.

Thats my opinion and I'm sticking by it.

And to David,, I do work at XM.

 

[RunWithScissors]

It seems a few posters claim WUBA is a niche format, to fill a certain hole small may it be, if so, why is Rock ignored. You all state there is not enough listeners to sustain a full time Active Rock format, so what you are saying is Hispanics, illegal or not, who don't want to embrace American culture can have their niche format, but Rockers, who are the lifeblood of America cannot. Something is definitely wrong with this picture. Funny, the Rock and Roll hall of fame, and the UK music awards were 80 percent Rock oriented. Just to prove the one-sided radio programmars, I just found out Frankie Laine passed away, its been over 2 months now, funny thing, when Brown, Charles, Pickett and Walker passed, you heard about it non-stop, I thought Harvey was going to have a seizure, Frankie was never mentioned or played. For the record, when Diamond Jim programmed WCAU-FM, Mr. Laine was played frequently, Jim was a fair programmar in all ways. Bottom line, its what butt the suits want to kiss and embrace, and its not the Caucasian Rock audiance.

 

[PaulBWalkerJr]

RWS:

We know you like rock, why don't you go buy a station or lease some airtime and play your music? Since you like it and think there's enough of an audience, go for it!

With regards to "Hispanics and Ill-legals".... no one said they necessarily deserve a format over anyone else, but it is simply what works and is profitable for management.

Your Friendly & Official Terrestrial Radio Apologist
Friday Nights at 10pm on The Radio Racket
www.audio18.com and www.radioracket.com

 

[davideduardo]

You all state there is not enough listeners to sustain a full time Active Rock format, so what you are saying is Hispanics, illegal or not, who don't want to embrace American culture can have their niche format, but Rockers, who are the lifeblood of America cannot.

This is funny. There is only one Spanish langauge FM in the market, and it is programmed predominantly for Puerto Ricans, who form the bulk of the Hispanic population of the metro.

Puerto Ricans can not be illegal. Puerto Ricans are American, by birth, and their music and culture, by virtue of Puerto Rico being a part of the US, is Amercan, too.

 

[Radio-X]

This is funny. There is only one Spanish langauge FM in the market, and it is programmed predominantly for Puerto Ricans, who form the bulk of the Hispanic population of the metro.

Puerto Ricans can not be illegal. Puerto Ricans are American, by birth, and their music and culture, by virtue of Puerto Rico being a part of the US, is Amercan, too.

I was about to say "Hey, aren't majority of hispanics in the north Puerto Rican?" Shoot, a good deal of them on the east coast are Puerto Rican. Even most of the Mexicans who work in the farms/chicken processing plants in the Carolinas are legal! Most of your illegals are primarily in the midwest/southwest. As far as I can tell, the majority of hispanics work hard, spend money, and are thus desirable by advertising standards. It took advertisers years to figure that out, but I think they know well now.

Personally, if you gave me the chance between fracturing the "gringo" market by adding an FM rock station or adding the market's first FM spanish station, I'd go for the latter.

 

[fredflintstone]

This is funny. There is only one Spanish langauge FM in the market, and it is programmed predominantly for Puerto Ricans, who form the bulk of the Hispanic population of the metro.

Puerto Ricans can not be illegal. Puerto Ricans are American, by birth, and their music and culture, by virtue of Puerto Rico being a part of the US, is Amercan, too.

Immigrant goes to America,
Many hellos in America,
Nobody knows in America,
Puerto Rico's in America!

 

[davideduardo]

This is funny. There is only one Spanish langauge FM in the market, and it is programmed predominantly for Puerto Ricans, who form the bulk of the Hispanic population of the metro.

Puerto Ricans can not be illegal. Puerto Ricans are American, by birth, and their music and culture, by virtue of Puerto Rico being a part of the US, is Amercan, too.

Immigrant goes to America,
Many hellos in America,
Nobody knows in America,
Puerto Rico's in America!

I like your answer better than mine!

 

[fredflintstone]

Immigrant goes to America,
Many hellos in America,
Nobody knows in America,
Puerto Rico's in America!

I like your answer better than mine!

[/quote]

Thanks, David. I can't really take credit. West Side Story premiered on HD Net Movies last weekend. First broadcast in HD with a restored print.

 

[PhilGalasso]

If you live near Philly, why don't you check out WHAT on 1340 AM? Yes, the signal doesn't reach far, but at least they're trying! I can't understand a lot of the people on this board. You bitterly mourn the demise of Y-100, yet, when somebody tries to do a similar format on a small AM station with little to lose, the station is ignored.

Or check out the left side of the FM dial. A lot of college stations play the headbanger "music" that is not heard on mainstream commercial FM radio.

 

[fredflintstone]

If you live near Philly, why don't you check out WHAT on 1340 AM? Yes, the signal doesn't reach far, but at least they're trying! I can't understand a lot of the people on this board. You bitterly mourn the demise of Y-100, yet, when somebody tries to do a similar format on a small AM station with little to lose, the station is ignored.

Or check out the left side of the FM dial. A lot of college stations play the headbanger "music" that is not heard on mainstream commercial FM radio.

You have to live very near Philly to listen to music on WHAT with audio quality most people would find acceptable.

Both WHAT and WCHE in West Chester have been discussed at some length on this board (when they announced plans to flip and after the flip). There isn't a whole lot to say about most stations on an ongoing basis (unless some snafu happens). A few people do seem to have an ax they want to keep grinding about not enough radio for White people.

College stations (not to be confused with university-owned public radio stations) also tend to have very limited coverage areas.

XM and Sirius have multiple channels of rock (all flavors) and they can be heard most any place.

People complaining about the lack of any music format on terrestrial radio are sort of like people bitching that the corner bodega doesn't carry a certain brand of something - with a big box Acme right down the road.

 

[RunWithScissors]

Skin radio is not in the same class of Y-100, the old days of Active YSP, or Alternative DRE, they play many Rap flavored tunes, and barely get out over a 5 mile radius at night, where-as illegal 150w-n WURD booms in all over the place. As for the left end of the FM dial, no non-commecial station plays any Heavy Metal, Alternative or Punk and XPN is a liberal high and mighty joke. Why Skin would play Rap, who knows, when there is enough of that whatever pasted all over the dial. People like you Fred make me laugh, when you say the same crap over and over, "get satellite", that is the most ridiculous statement that I hear, again and again. Why must the Rock listener be punished and have to pay for what the urban and hispanic listener receive for free. Your statement holds no liqued, FYI, I do have Sirius, XM, MC and Aol radio, but I still think radio should serve all desires.

 

[fredflintstone]

Skin radio is not in the same class of Y-100, the old days of Active YSP, or Alternative DRE, they play many Rap flavored tunes, and barely get out over a 5 mile radius at night, where-as illegal 150w-n WURD booms in all over the place. As for the left end of the FM dial, no non-commecial station plays any Heavy Metal, Alternative or Punk and XPN is a liberal high and mighty joke. Why Skin would play Rap, who knows, when there is enough of that whatever pasted all over the dial. People like you Fred make me laugh, when you say the same crap over and over, "get satellite", that is the most ridiculous statement that I hear, again and again. Why must the Rock listener be punished and have to pay for what the urban and hispanic listener receive for free. Your statement holds no liqued, FYI, I do have Sirius, XM, MC and Aol radio, but I still think radio should serve all desires.

No, you only think radio should serve your desires.

For the record, Philly does not have (pardon me if I miss a few):
Progressive Talk
Fem Talk
Advice/lifestyle talk
Business News
Folk/Acoustic/Ethnic
Adult Standards
Easy Listening
Big Band
Nostalgia
Classic Country
Family Hits
Gospel
Real Oldies
Jammin' Oldies/Rhythmic Oldies
Soft AC
And, of course, Rhythmic AC ("Philly needs a danz station")

Philly also does not have full time Classical or Jazz

There are not enough stations to serve "all desires" on terrestrial radio.
But I only hear you complaining about White trash rock.
And why are you complaining in the first place, since you tell us you already have BOTH satellite services?

Radio is not free.
There is no free lunch.
Somebody pays for radio and in terrestrial radio, that somebody is advertisers.
Rock listeners aren't punished. It's just advertisers don't want to buy them lunch.
Same as they don't want to buy lunch for people who like all those other formats.

For somebody who rants about Democrats, you do seem to have a welfare mentality about this.

PS: Wasn't Tricky Dick president during Viet Nam?

 

[RunWithScissors]

Not really, Saint Kennedy put us there, Dumbo Johnson kept us there and Richard Milhouse brought us home...I agree with you on Standards, Classic Country and Folk, but lets not forget BI, Surf, Beach and Garage Rock.

 

[fredflintstone]

What's to agree? There are a whole bunch of potential formats not heard in this market. The same is true of every other market (although formats in and out vary). Are the one's you agree about the ones you think SHOULD be broadcast.

You say all desires should be served, but apparently you mean only those "desires" you approve of or agree with.

PS: Dumbo was a Southern Democrat. Most of them became Republicans thanks to Tricky Dick's Southern Strategy. Barry Goldwater campaigned for US involvement in Viet Nam. Members of both parties in Congress voted for it. Dick Cheney had better things to do and stayed home. Dubya's daddy got him in the guard, but he didn't bother to show up. Rush had a pimple on his butt. Republicans liked the Viet Nam - for other people and other people's kids.