Why dropping "Oldies" is wrong

[semoochie]

I'm beginning to understand how this can work, at least in a market the size of LA. I'm still a little hazy about the second (and a lot of first)tier stations in most of America though. You said something that makes me want to change gears: If there's so much money to be made in LA, it seems to me that there should be room for a properly programmed Country station that has the additional advantage that most of its potential listeners are 18-54 and without a New York presence, should be the largest single group of Country listeners in America. With the enormous worth of a full signal FM stick, it makes me think it would have to be a full coverage AM. I suppose it would be a gamble. If one were to make such a thing happen on AM, on a large scale, would enough people listen for it to pay off? Sorry, I didn't mean to get completely off the Oldies topic.

 

[AZJoe]

Well, according to the experts, every radio station should be hip hop, AAA or AC. That is what the 18-54 yr olds listen to and want, so as of now lets have no other format/programming available. Let's have 50 stations in the same market all playing the same handful of formats because they will be successful. Hmmm 50% of the listeners prefer those types of formats so lets have 99% of the stations split half the pie...... ;D

 

[amfmsw]

AZJoe's on the money, why split a pie 50 ways? And radiofriend1 in reply #45 is almost right. BUT, Ad Agencies also come up with the campaigns, and make recommendations to the advertiser. They steer them, allegedly "educating" them. If the advertisers are making the 25-54 call, they've been brainwashed by the agencies, UNLESS the business is truly a college grad age to pre-retirment age product.

Don't confuse ad agencies with buying services. Buying services are just rate negotiators.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm beginning to understand how this can work, at least in a market the size of LA. I'm still a little hazy about the second (and a lot of first)tier stations in most of America though. You said something that makes me want to change gears: If there's so much money to be made in LA, it seems to me that there should be room for a properly programmed Country station that has the additional advantage that most of its potential listeners are 18-54 and without a New York presence, should be the largest single group of Country listeners in America. With the enormous worth of a full signal FM stick, it makes me think it would have to be a full coverage AM. I suppose it would be a gamble. If one were to make such a thing happen on AM, on a large scale, would enough people listen for it to pay off? Sorry, I didn't mean to get completely off the Oldies topic.

18-54's are not going to listen to an AM, no matter what and there are very few full signal AMs in LA anyway. Add to that the fact that the market is 75% ethnic or immigrant, and the pool for country is so small tha tit will not work here... a 1.6 will be salable for some formats, like those with big commercial loads, but not for a music station.

The effect of losing KZLA has been the appearance of the Riverside country station (out of makret) with a 1 share in LA since the change... in other words, 75% of the country listening has already found an FM home.

 

[OldiesCat]

Experts?

Well, according to the experts, every radio station should be hip hop, AAA or AC. That is what the 18-54 yr olds listen to and want, so as of now lets have no other format/programming available. Let's have 50 stations in the same market all playing the same handful of formats because they will be successful. Hmmm 50% of the listeners prefer those types of formats so lets have 99% of the stations split half the pie...... ;D

Which "experts" are you referring to? Maybe I'm blind, but I've never heard any "expert" suggest that only those 3 format be done with no other format, with the same playlists, etc.

Please-we're dying to know who these "experts" you refer to are.

 

[semoochie]

I would like to apologize for stating that this is an LA board. Obviously, it is not! I'm so accustomed to reading the insightful comments of David and others on the LA board that it slipped my mind, momentarily.

 

[amfmsw]

not to sound smartssa, but the "expert" referral I believe was to persons, who say that nothing counts in radio except 18-34 and 25-54 demos. If you follow your own "expert" logic, the only formats wold be AAA and hip-hop and ac. Talk is too old. Oldies is too old. Sports is too old, as the under 54 will not listen to AM. Country is too narrow. Christian is too narrow. Classical too narrow. Spanish too ethnic. It seems everything is wrong on the radio, everything is too old, male, female, narrow, young. All unsellable demos with no value to anyone for anything. You've left only AAA, hip-hop and AC as the only three viable formats for all radio stations, because they MUST be 18-34 or 25-54, or they have no value.

Except AM's. They should all go dark, as no one is young enought to listen to them, and anyone left listening is too old for advertisers to care about.

You guys must be the experts, so just put a bullet through my brain, as I turn 51, and love the oldies, but I'm not allowed to have a local station play MY favorite music.

 

[fred flintstone]

Except AM's. They should all go dark, as no one is young enought to listen to them, and anyone left listening is too old for advertisers to care about.

You guys must be the experts, so just put a bullet through my brain, as I turn 51, and love the oldies, but I'm not allowed to have a local station play MY favorite music.

You misquote and misrepresent the positions of marketers, ad agencies and radio managers. Maybe you don't understand what they say. Maybe you don't care to. If you did, it might undermine the basis of your complaints. You have decided to position yourself as a minority and claim discrimination. Then you think you make the case for Oldies an an entitlement. Since you are not willing to pay to hear Oldies but want to force someone else to pay for you, one might even say you have a welfare mentality.

Trying changing your handle to AMFMSWSATMP3INTERNET and bring yourself into the current decade. Oldies are out there. Listen all you want.

[EDIT]

Excuse me. I'm going back to listening to XM 50s on Five.

[EDIT--inflammatory]

 

[radiofriend1]

when oldies is dropped in most markets, it ain't missed that much.............didn't know of U knew that

 

[OldiesCat]

"the experts"

not to sound smartssa, but the "expert" referral I believe was to persons, who say that nothing counts in radio except 18-34 and 25-54 demos.

Names, please! Who are these "experts" you're quoting? If you're going to make a claim, please back it up with some proof or evidence. Thanks.

 

[fred flintstone]

Re: "the experts"

Names, please! Who are these "experts" you're quoting? If you're going to make a claim, please back it up with some proof or evidence. Thanks.

There aren't any experts being quoted here. It's all about somebody not getting their way.
To quote Lucy Ricardo: Waaaaaaaaa!

Dropping Oldies in Wrong? Give me a break.
It may be bad business (but I doubt it). However, there is no issue of right-wrong, ethics or morality here except the spoiled brat mentality of some people saying "it's not fair" and feeling hurt that Clear Channel or whoever it is doesn't love them any more.

 

[Alan J]

The shortsighted sales and management, starting with the flagship oldies outlet in NY, who've dropped the format, are now out fighting for scraps of 18-34 year old demo budgets. Those with a little more vivison, and plain common sense on who to sell to with this format, are relaxing with less competition, higher rates, and better profits.

Read on: http://www.rab.com/public/rst/rst_new/rstarticle.cfm?id=1107&type=article1

What's the line? Why do you rob banks? Because that's where the money is.
Why should you continue serving with "Oldies"? Same answer.

this is rich. many of U who accuse radio of being all-bottom-line and money-hungry ALL say how big the money is in oldies and programming to 55+ boomers.
if radio groups were that money grubbing AND there was that much to be made doing oldies don't U think the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR OBSESSED corporate radio giants would be all over the format?

news blast 4 U: the ad dollars aren't there and that is why oldies is fading from FM radios. it really is that simple
until U can convince (good luck) the ADVERTISERS who spend money on RADIO that there is gold in them thar hills...........your point is 100% moot

The advertisers refuse to invest into this age demo. Why do they not? That's beyond me.

There is really no one to blame for the lost of oldies stations throughout the country. The radio companies were losing money and the advertisers aren't interested in this demo. Again, it is beyond me why advertisers aren't interested.

It's just the way it is.

 

[fred flintstone]

Why Oldies Fans Are Wrong

The advertisers refuse to invest into this age demo. Why do they not? That's beyond me.

There is really no one to blame for the lost of oldies stations throughout the country. The radio companies were losing money and the advertisers aren't interested in this demo. Again, it is beyond me why advertisers aren't interested.

It's just the way it is.

No, it's not the way it is. The great radio board myth. The mystery is why you people keep repeating it.

Talk radio skews old and advertisers buy it.
They just don't buy Oldies.

Various TV shows and cable channels skew old and advertisers buy them.
They just don't buy Oldies.

You people can't admit that some advertisers do target older consumers.
When they do, they just don't buy Oldies radio.
You want to play the victim and assume there's something "wrong" with the advertisers.
You can't allow for the possibility that Oldies radio doesn't work as a sales tool.

Keep repeating the big lie.
We have met the enemy and he is YOU!

 

[Alan J]

You're right Fred.

My post is inaccurate. I made it after only reading a couple of the early posts in this discussion. But as I read through the discussion, I realized that my comments were inaccurate.

Just after reading this thread, I learned a lot, and I learned about things I should have thought of!

Common sense and common thinking. I didn't do either of those.

 

[radiolover78]

i think u misread what i was trying to say

i'm saying NOT ALL BOOMERS would make "oldies" their #1 music choice. many are too young for the nostalgic kick a sixties classic would give them (which is what drove oldies). if U go sixties and seventies, u can then target (center) early 40's to early 50's boomers .........some over 55 will like what U play but U may not be their main choice.

also, when i say *NOT ALL BOOMERS* like oldies many like country, soft ac, n/t, aaa----there's this pervasive wishful thinking going on as if anybody over 50 LUVS oldies music. that has never been true

Agreed.

Some folks here also seem to forget that not all baby boomers listen to oldies music.

Some folks here also seem to forget that advertisers do target older people in other ways (Fred explained it well in post #72).

 

[TheFonz]

Just after reading this thread, I learned a lot, and I learned about things I should have thought of!

Among the things you learned, I hope, was that satellite radio will fill your every "oldies" need.

 

[davideduardo]

Among the things you learned, I hope, was that satellite radio will fill your every "oldies" need.

That, and lots of bulk and fibre in the diet and the entire demo will be happy.

 

[fred flintstone]

That, and lots of bulk and fibre in the diet and the entire demo will be happy.

David can be a little smug because so many stations have been flipping to Hispanic formats lately.

 

[OldiesCat]

satellite

But he's right. Look, the Oldies junkies will totally groove over the various Oldies offerings on XM and Sirius- the problem is that most Oldies radio listener types are not Oldies junkies like you are.

I've heard the different channels and while I hear some cool and unusual stuff, I also hear a lot of what I'd call "filler". I'm sorry, but just because a songs was out in 1968 or 1966 doesn't mean many people still want to hear it. My favorite "whipping boy" tune is "Honey" by Bobby Goldsboro, #1 for 8 weeks in 1968, major hit. But who in the heck still wants to hear it on a regular basis? Almost nobody, yet it's one of the songs I've heard on both of these stations. Should it perhaps be on the Music Of Your Life-type channel? Sure. On their seventies channels, you hear stuff by the Osmonds and Partridge Family, because they were big chart hits in the '70s. And a huge majority of Oldies partisans have ZERO appetite for such pablum.

So, if you love satellite Oldies, go forth and God bless you. But please don't try and convince us that terrestrial FM Oldies stations would be successful if they just did what satellite is doing. Never, ever happen.

 

[radiolover78]

You hit the nail on the head Oldies Cat.

XM and Sirius both offer excellent music that die hard oldies fans would love to hear (I've heard both).

We pay for TV, why not pay for radio?

It's time to move on. The "old oldies" (50s, 60s) are dead on terrestrial radio. Oldies today is mostly 70s and 80s along with some 60s thrown in.