Why DX AM or FM at all?

[dumber than a box of hair]

Every radio I own including the GE superradio has an antenna. It's inside the radio, but it's there wrapped around a ferrite core. Every FM radio I own, including the GE Superradio has an FM antenna. That's what the whip that eminates from the body of the radio is for. Not every radio on the market (as a matter of fact most don't) uses the headphone wire as an antenna. Even my good old car radio has an antenna that is mounted on the body of the car itself. When they put those in glass antennas in most people I know complained about poor reception. I think what I read in your post is a lot of wishfull thinking.

No, there's no wishful thinking going on. All I'm saying is: it has to work seamlessly and without a whole lot of fuss, because that's what people are used to. Sure, radios all have antennas...they have to have them. But, except for the current crop of HD receivers, they're no-brainers. They just work, without any adjustment at all, except for extending the whip on an FM radio. What HD radios need is not what the average radio listener, conditioned by years of not thinking about antennas, is going to put up with. "Better" or "newer" doesn't mean "more complicated" to the average person.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

OK, I live in a suburb, 25 miles from the transmitters. we hear all the time from people who claim to live in a suburb, 50 or 60 miles from a transmitter. That's no suburb. It doesn't matter what urban sprawl has caused when you live 50 or more miles from a radio station you are outside the coverage area. Now, even in

Sorry to dispute your statement - there is nothing but city between me and the towers, you can drive 120 East to West in Dallas Ft. Worth and it is solid city. You can drive 80 miles North / South it is solid city. There are low power rim shots that serve only part of the area, sometimes co-channeled with rim shots on the other side of the area, but for the most part every station acts like everything out to the edges of the metro area is part of their primary audience, and so do their local advertisers. Fortunately, the local towers are near the South center of the area that helps a bit, but the majority of listeners are still well outside a 25 mile radius. In fact, that 25 mile radius encompasses most of the older, more economically challenged demographics - the younger more affluent demographics are living farther than 25 miles from the towers.

Houston has an even worse situation. The towers are in the far Southwestern part of the metro area in Missouri city. It is continuous city far North until past Conroe on I-45, same type of distance on the other major Northwest, Northeast, and East freeways.

I don't even need to mention Los Angeles, we have friends that live 120 miles from downtown, and it is continuous city the whole way. I've driven from Chicago to Milwaukee - Chicago extends far up the road to almost the state line. St. Louis - the public transit may end 25 miles from downtown, but my cousin lives another 30 miles out, and the city is continuous. Last time I visited New York, it was massive and went almost 100 miles in CT and down Long Island.

So - the assertion that these folks who live 60, 80, 100 miles from towers are "rural" listeners is ridiculous. They are, and consider themselves residents of their metro area. And the advertisers are probably after these people who live out of the city to get away from crime, high housing prices, and high taxes - and have the affluent lifestyle.

And fiddling with antennas to get HD radio is a hassle most people won't bother with. I've been in house after house where the FM radios do not even have antennas, or at the most have a dipole crumpled up on the floor. And due to high power at the broadcasting station they usually get away with it. With that level of technical expertise, HD won't fly in the suburbs. You can re-define "suburban" vs. "rural" all you want, but it won't change the fact that there is a mall every 15 miles, chain restaurants every 15 miles like Chilis and Red Lobster, banks, doctors, Walmarts, Targets, car dealers - all the way out to 100 miles. That is NOT my definition of rural!

 

[R.F. Burns]

OK, I live in a suburb, 25 miles from the transmitters. we hear all the time from people who claim to live in a suburb, 50 or 60 miles from a transmitter. That's no suburb. It doesn't matter what urban sprawl has caused when you live 50 or more miles from a radio station you are outside the coverage area. Now, even in

Sorry to dispute your statement - there is nothing but city between me and the towers, you can drive 120 East to West in Dallas Ft. Worth and it is solid city. You can drive 80 miles North / South it is solid city. There are low power rim shots that serve only part of the area, sometimes co-channeled with rim shots on the other side of the area, but for the most part every station acts like everything out to the edges of the metro area is part of their primary audience, and so do their local advertisers. Fortunately, the local towers are near the South center of the area that helps a bit, but the majority of listeners are still well outside a 25 mile radius. In fact, that 25 mile radius encompasses most of the older, more economically challenged demographics - the younger more affluent demographics are living farther than 25 miles from the towers.

Houston has an even worse situation. The towers are in the far Southwestern part of the metro area in Missouri city. It is continuous city far North until past Conroe on I-45, same type of distance on the other major Northwest, Northeast, and East freeways.

I don't even need to mention Los Angeles, we have friends that live 120 miles from downtown, and it is continuous city the whole way. I've driven from Chicago to Milwaukee - Chicago extends far up the road to almost the state line. St. Louis - the public transit may end 25 miles from downtown, but my cousin lives another 30 miles out, and the city is continuous. Last time I visited New York, it was massive and went almost 100 miles in CT and down Long Island.

So - the assertion that these folks who live 60, 80, 100 miles from towers are "rural" listeners is ridiculous. They are, and consider themselves residents of their metro area. And the advertisers are probably after these people who live out of the city to get away from crime, high housing prices, and high taxes - and have the affluent lifestyle.

And fiddling with antennas to get HD radio is a hassle most people won't bother with. I've been in house after house where the FM radios do not even have antennas, or at the most have a dipole crumpled up on the floor. And due to high power at the broadcasting station they usually get away with it. With that level of technical expertise, HD won't fly in the suburbs. You can re-define "suburban" vs. "rural" all you want, but it won't change the fact that there is a mall every 15 miles, chain restaurants every 15 miles like Chilis and Red Lobster, banks, doctors, Walmarts, Targets, car dealers - all the way out to 100 miles. That is NOT my definition of rural!

Well I am speaking for NYC, and in my region if you drive 50 miles you are in another market. By the way, in NY the less afluent live further away from the city (outside of the truly poor) because they can't afford homes in the real suburbs. LA is a sprawl and not typical of a city. It has a small downtown and runs on to San Diego. Apparently IBIQUITY tested for interference issues early on and found just a few. I wonder how those law suits are doing?

 

[jras20]

I go on and off of my HD Radio, at times, I can pull in San antonio just fine 60 miles out with my outdoor antenna. I wish they would stop playing those HD comercials though, I am sick of hearing them over and over every time they play comercials. I mostly listen to Dance on my HD Radio, I'm tired of all the over played hiphop around my area. That is one of the nice things is more choices. They need to get this stuff fixed though have it carry as far as the analog without interference. If they can do that, then I might could see this really take off. Untill then, I dont really see it. They are a little bit to late I think. But, the sound really sounds great when the HD signal is in!

 

[jras20]

Another kind of funny thing, a friend of mine in Dallas won a HD radio at a party, and he could only pick up a few local HD signals he just set it up as a radio for his Ipod. He tried every spot in his house and could only get a few.

 

[Chuck]

Most apartment buildings have a "community" antenna system and that is sufficiant for your FM HD signal. Just plug the radio into the jack and your all set to go.

It has been some time since I lived in an apartment, but most of the ones I've recently seen have cable TV for the community antenna system. There is no antenna on the roof. Very few CATV systems pass FM radio. At one time, some of them did, usually by re-modulating a select few stations on unused FM frequencies. I think even that has more or less gone away. That is not going to help with HD.

Many years ago, I used to work for a company that installed antenna systems in apartment buildings, hospitals, hotels, nursing homes and the like. Most of those systems had FM traps to help reduce inter-modulation problems induced by nearby FM transmitters. Having an FM trap was pretty much Standard Operating Procedure in those days. I don't know if that is still the norm, but at one time major manufacturers like Jerrold, Winegard, Channel Master, etc. frequently recommended FM traps.

If the building does not have CATV and indeed does have an antenna, then it may have a trap. It is fairly likely that FM will be less than stellar if you use the provided antenna outlet. As for hanging an outdoor antenna, it may be legal, but you will still face the problems of installing it, running cables without drilling holes, etc. Even with the FCC on your side, you may still have a fight with your landlord over the idea. Naturally, all of these things CAN be overcome. The question is if there is sufficient incentive to go to the trouble. For most people, I doubt it.

As for your thought that 60 miles is a different market, well, not in the western half of the country. When I owned a business in Dallas, we were located within the Dallas City limits. Still, it was about 15-20 miles northeast of Cedar Hill where most of the transmitters are located. I had several employees who lived at least 45 minutes to an hour north of our shop. They were in places like Denton, Plano, and Allen. Maybe at one time those were rural areas, but not anymore. It is all one big place the locals call the “Metroplex.” I'm fairly sure if you asked any of them where they were from, they would say "Dallas." I also suspect that they would like the ability to stay tuned to their favorite station on their drive to wherever they are going. Dallas is not at all unusual in having lots of residents located very far away from the center city.