Why Is It So Hard?

jpedicino · Mar 2, 2011

Why is it that every station owner or manager I talk to tells me their hardest job is trying to find good salespeople? I have been trying to add two people to my sales staff in South Atlanta for over a year... and I've even hired several but they just don't work out. It seems like they want a job but don't want to do the work! It did not used to be this way. What do you think has changed? I would love to find out what other station management is doing to find good salespeople.
thanks
Joe Pedicino
92.5 The Bear
South Atlanta

Chancethegardner · Mar 2, 2011

Successful sales people are born, not trained. It isn't about the money it's about winning. A good sales person derives pleasure from convincing a client to buy into their idea. The money just certifies their ability.

CompleteGame · Mar 2, 2011

Joe, I've got a whole stable of broadcasting grads who've come from sales careers and totally 'get the sales life'....and I've told them that the quickest way to get into a radio career is to start in the sales department....for example, got a grad selling ESPN 99.9 in Warner Robins and he's mowing it down.

(You do have to at least offer a draw. No one can 'eat what they kill' anymore selling $7 spots.)

Shoot me an email. Seriously.

radiodawg56 · Mar 3, 2011

It is tough to find good sales people. Our problem is ownership wants everybody to work on commission with no mileage or cell phone. You can't expect someone to work without any resources, and no one wants to spend their own money with no return. It's a must to give them a base or put them on a draw system. You have to give them a little bit to keep gas in their cars and food on the table. If our ownership would realize that, we could find a good sales person or two.

Big Dave in Winder · Mar 3, 2011

Joe,

That is the million dollar question! We try here at our small home town community radio station as well to keep sales people and it is next to impossible. I agree with Jeff that a salary and commission is more enticing but that sometimes does not even keep them on board. In this current economy the businesses do not want to spend advertising dollars at $1 per spot.

RoddyFreeman · Mar 3, 2011

I've told Atlanta radio salespeople who are unhappy where they are about openings at stations like yours and South 107. And they always say, "I couldn't make enough money at a station like that."

Goat Rodeo Cowboy · Mar 3, 2011

Ol' GRC is going to stand up and emotionally and intellectually, STRIP NAKED for you.
(It ain't gon'na be purty)

You can't imagine how bad I wanted to be a radio salesman. You can't imagine how many times I failed!

jpedicino said:
Why is it that every station owner or manager I talk to tells me their hardest job is trying to find good salespeople? I have been trying to add two people to my sales staff in South Atlanta for over a year... and I've even hired several but they just don't work out. It seems like they want a job but don't want to do the work! It did not used to be this way. What do you think has changed?

Maybe in your geography it did not used to be this way. But as long as I can remember, station managers and owners have struggled with the sales issue. And we who wanted to fill your needs and wishes have struggled with this issue.

Let's look at what I call the "Quarterbacks and Fighter Pilots scenario".

Chancethegardner said:
Successful sales people are born, not trained. It isn't about the money it's about winning. A good sales person derives pleasure from convincing a client to buy into their idea. The money just certifies their ability.

There are some people "who sell refrigerators to Eskimos" as we often say. For the manager who finds one or more of these people, I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is: you are going to do well for now. You may even get to set aside some mad-money and retirement money. The bad news is: you are going to 'kick the can down the road' as one politician is saying over and over again and soon you will come face to face again with this same can. The Can that gets kicked down the road is that we don't come face to face in solving the question of: How do I take ordinary and slightly better people and make productive sales people out of them. Another problem that does not get faced: What needs to be changed about my station to make it sellable by ordinary and slightly better people. Is the station operated in such a way that only a Quarterback/Fighter Pilot can sell the turkey. I've worked along side some ordinary and slightly better people who kept stations alive and prospering as radio sales people. I'm not sure they could make it in the industry today.

The heroes today have more opportunities in greener pastures beyond the fence than they once had. Why sell $300 in advertising when the same energy might sell a $62,000 Lexus? might sell a $350,000 house? Might sell a contract to put 20 contract programmers on site for 18 months in a blue chip corporation.

Here is an observation that is worth at least as much as you are going to have to pay me to read it: Superstars in sports tend NOT to be become great coaches. If stardom came naturally to them, they never have to take time to get to the bottom of the pile in theory and figure out how they do what they do. Thus, they can't tell a klutz like me how to be a star. Superstar sales people who are just born that way have no clue how to take a klutz like me and teach me how to sell. But take a mediocre high school football or basketball player who has a reasonably good coach and says, "Coach, what am I doing wrong. Show me what to do." So he makes the team and gets to go on and play college ball. And he needs to choose the right college and coach for him. He needs the coach that he can go to and say: Coach, what am I doing wrong. Show me what to do." He may or may not get to play in the pros, but he may turn to be one hell of a coach because now knows how to tell me and you what we are doing wrong.

I worked for some "coaches" in the radio business who only knew to scream louder and louder: "You need to work harder! You need to sell more!." Tell me how, coach. "That's your job. You get paid BIG commissions for knowing that." And the big commission for selling piddly is a commission that is piddly.

I was 50 years old when during an "Exit Interview" (I was leaving voluntarily, on my terms) that this two man team that I worked for in the automobile business explained to me what I had that they valued. I ran their computer. I did it well. But here is what they found special. Right in the middle of staff meetings I would either ask the stupidest question of the day or make the stupidest suggestion of the day. (And they knew that I knew what I was doing.) And the Department Manager with a problem would say: "Oh you don't understand how this works. Instead of that, what we need to do is <fill in the blank>. And a problem we had been struggling with for four months would be solved.

Unfortunately, I found there was no demand for people who claim in their resume to be "Productive Court Jesters". I think I have been in some 600 or so radio stations to look around and see how they do things. I knew some of them must be good at sales because there was evidence of affluence in their facility. But in only ONE of those radio stations did I ever stop to admire some device, some display board that reached out and said: WE KNOW HOW TO SELL! WE HAVE A STRUCTURED SYSTEM THAT WORKS. One out of 600 is not good!

Final thought: Are you mentally geared to deal with sales people who are 35 to 45 year old females? They certainly own their share of the Real Estate business today. They certainly own their share of the Automobile Dealer business today. They seem to be coming on strong in the Radio Sales business. Are they part of your sales staff today?

Now excuse me while I put on my emotional and mental clothes. I am comfortable being the Court Jester... but do not find being the Court Strip-tease a pleasant experience.

JackieSteele · Mar 3, 2011

Rate integrity in our region has been shot to hell over the past few years due to the economy. Stations in our area face an odd scenario of having great appeal to mom-n-pops as our primary target clients, but those are the same clients who find that it's difficult to even budget $100 a month for advertising. You can either give them a chump schedule that won't get results, or give them a good schedule with crap rates. If you go for crap rates, you end up overselling the inventory and overworking thge AEs without making much money for the station and even less for the AE. If you go for the chump schedule, the client gets lousy results and won't come back. But you've gotta get money from somewhere, so you make deals you might not otherwise make in better times, and then no matter how much turnaround the economy has, clients expect the lower rates they got before. It's a vicious cycle.

But the bottom line is, no matter how good of a seller you are, you can't force people to give you their money. And when it comes down to it, a business's lights don't go off if they don't pay for advertising (at least not right away)... so the money gets diverted to other obligations, and the AEs end up burning shoe leather all day to bring home a meagre catch. When they find out they can sometimes do better drawing unemployment than they can burning up the streets all day, the trouble begins.

CompleteGame · Mar 3, 2011

Rate integrity in our region has been shot to hell over the past few years due to the economy. Stations in our area face an odd scenario of having great appeal to mom-n-pops as our primary target clients, but those are the same clients who find that it's difficult to even budget $100 a month for advertising. You can either give them a chump schedule that won't get results, or give them a good schedule with crap rates. If you go for crap rates, you end up overselling the inventory and overworking thge AEs without making much money for the station and even less for the AE. If you go for the chump schedule, the client gets lousy results and won't come back. But you've gotta get money from somewhere, so you make deals you might not otherwise make in better times, and then no matter how much turnaround the economy has, clients expect the lower rates they got before. It's a vicious cycle.

Thats a great post, Jackie. If you've got 50 clients spending an average of $150 month, that's a lot of hand-holding, bill-collecting and servicing to bill a lousy $7500/month.

I figure a community has to have 250 businesses that are viable targets to spend $200+ month to beat the law of averages. We're lucky that's the case in my county...but we also do an excellent job of programming weekends in a "business education" format that generates a heavy 5 figures a year by itself. You've got to have something incredibly saleabale too like Braves, Bulldogs or Rush. Yes, they cost money but the return has been enormous.

jpedicino · Mar 4, 2011

I agree with everything that I have read here. But we pay a draw that is quaranteed for the first three months, give sellers a gas trade, full benefits, and a station that is just not that hard to sell. We have a lot to sell including NASCAR, Sponsorships, programs, and LIVE programing from our studio every weekday from 6a-10p! We still do old fashioned live remotes (not cell phone call ins) and we have Local high school football featuring two of the best high schools around. There is no reason why an experienced seller should not make $45,000+ with us. AND YET WE CAN'T FIND ANYONE THAT WILL DO THE WORK! We do ongoing training. We offer every sales tool known to man. It just seems that the people that are available to us don't want to make the 7-10 calls a day, do the research that is necessary, or even do the paperwork that is needed to get everything done! It's easy for someone in my position to get discouraged and just cuss them all! I would love to find two or three 35-45 year old women that could come in and sell. Any ideas anyone?

djdaily · Mar 8, 2011

Joe, you know why at your station! Don't look for pitty here. You have been through 45 or so salespeople since taking over. Maybe look within before begging for help. You rave about having the legends and you are the only one. Wonder why you are the only one? That format would be good for my grandparents, but they are gone. Get a new format, get good people and treat them good and they may stay.

taylorengineer · Mar 8, 2011

djdaily said:
Joe, you know why at your station! Don't look for pitty here. You have been through 45 or so salespeople since taking over. Maybe look within before begging for help. You rave about having the legends and you are the only one. Wonder why you are the only one? That format would be good for my grandparents, but they are gone. Get a new format, get good people and treat them good and they may stay.

I dunno DJ.....The Bear shows up with a 0.1 6+ in every recent PPM diary - Arbitron shows a cume of 35,000 or so people. That tells me The Bear shows pretty well in Coweta and Fayette counties.
Joe Pedicino, love him or hate him, has done a great job doing "local" radio and has a well done format to market.
Joe has the same problem most other smaller market stations have. A really talented salesperson just can't make the kind of money it takes to keep them on board. $45K/yearly is chicken feed for a good sales guy/gal.
The only way to attract these people and keep them is to offer them an ownership opportunity. Joe is a perfect example - you would never snag a master salesman like him for $45K.
I have worked for many small stations over the years and the biggest problem they ALL have is retaining talented salespeople. The Bear is one of those situations where someone could really make a decent living - and smaller stations are where you can wear more than one hat( i.e. sell AND do an airshift.) Plus....you can learn from a guy who is an expert at slingin' it and makin' it stick.......

trig · Mar 9, 2011

Well the economies not helping, but get a good local sales manager and make them tell it like it is when hiring people, and have them or you sell yourselves with proper training. It reminds me of a couple of songs I think I remember: Corporate Radio Killed the Radio Sales Star, and Bad Managers gives Radio.... (sing a long now)..... a Bad name! While it may not be effecting smaller markets and independents as much, I can speak for a lot of fellow employees from bigger markets that have been through way too much consolidation that the Clear Channels, Citadels and Cumulus' of the world that have put many devoted employees out of work and don't like what they see around them. Now there's the corporate collapse and buyouts of radio everyone gets to go through it a 3rd, 4th and sometimes 5th time. Sales people have had enough of seeing all their fellow friends get pink slipped and let go, then see the Farid's, Mark Mays of the world get millions in bonuses for sending their company into bankruptcy. It's like a restaurant when you have a bad meal, every good experienced sales rep that was in the business, told 20 more other people not to get in the business.

Three months draw is a joke for the most part for someone to leave another good solid job for, so your usually only getting unemployed people accepting that for the most part. And those are the least likely people that are going to be able to survive on some low to no paychecks for the first year. If you are really that good of a sales person your not going to be out of a job looking for one, you'll find a new job first then leave. But then there's the non-competes now, so exp. radio sales reps can't do that and work in the same area usually for a while. That is the reality of it. Most people new to radio sales that are hired, are sold on what a great job it is, but then the day you get off your draw you deal with the company that hired you pocketing your commission because you just figured out the chargeback policy and your company is keep your commissions on payments that weren't mailed out until the 89th day. Yet it's okay for agencies to do it with national business, so it sets a bad precedent for the rest right down to the local client that expects, and gets credit. So the company punishes the sales person by taking their commission and not the client that is paying after 90 days. Or the sales manager that yells at you like it was you that wrote the bad check that bounced, and not the client. Then they start hearing about how good it used to be and everything radio sales people used to have like expense reports, no non-competes, protected account lists, 401K benefits etc.... (you know the stuff that other outside sales jobs offer), and then the bad manager that hired them starts treating them poorly because they no longer want to put in 50 hour work weeks with 10 hours of meetings in the office yelling at you twice a day, with little of no paycheck for another 6 months.

There are a few good places to work out there still, and you may very well be one of them. You can usually judge a good station to work in sales at by their sales manager and management team. Meaning by the radio sales people who are there that want to work for those managers because of that managers reputation. If that sales team is only having 0-2 people turnover a year, that is a good sign of a good management team to work. The company really should be irrelevant, since we are all forced to work for corporate radio now for the most part (or at least the policies they brought on), if that cluster or station can find good managers to buffer the Bull@*^%, that now goes on these days. If you have a good management team to work for, your existing staff will recommend you as a place to work, if they aren't, look in the mirror because right now at many places, it's just not something sales people want to encourage to a previous client, friend or family, even with a bonus for referring that person, no way.

No one like to be in a sales meeting twice a day working for a manager that is micromanaging them with daily paperwork and with little training, because he wants to show his boss that he is doing something to justify his job. What they do want is a proper draw and training and the time needed to nurture an account list in order to make a living. That usually always takes 6-12 months even with sales experience, or previous radio experience for that matter. To answer your question, there are just too many stations with horror stories and bad managers out there, and no one wants to work for them anymore or take that chance and wonder if they have to survive without a paycheck in four months. It's not good for moral.

I am lucky that I have never been out of work, or laid off, so I am not really one of the unfortunate persons that has to find a way to feed his family now. When I leave my current job for something else, I am probably done with radio for good, as well as the few rewards radio has to offer me these days. In the meanwhile, I just cash my paycheck and tell others no way to radio sales these days. You can have better success opening a restaurant with friends and family, at least they'll watch your back.