WHY IS KAMP STILL ON THE CHR PANEL?

[danikayser84]

I'd be curious as to the listenership and target audiences of WFLY, WAJZ and WKKF in Albany... WKKF's tagline is "All The Hits" even though nowadays they're in a similar direction (playlist, etc.) to WXRK/NYC or KAMP/Los Angeles, while WFLY tends towards more pop-rock... and WAJZ is basically WKKF minus the one or so non-rhythmic song per hour

(WFLY and WAJZ are owned by the same company, so they try not to overlap too much, either )

 

[atlantaboy]

their arrival has grown the CHR/Pop share here in LA to 10.1 this past September.

Every city in the country would have "CHR/Pop shares" like that if their rhythmic stations reported to the CHR panel

 

[atlantaboy]

Simply playing rhythmic artists on a CHR does not make you a rhythmic CHR, though.

No, but refusing to play anything with a guitar in it makes you a rhythmic CHR

If 18-34 demographics in L. A. are really 85% non-white, then any station targeting this audience should be reporting to the Rhythmic panel

If ten rock songs were to vault into the CHR Top 20 within the next year, KAMP wouldn't change anything, and it would still only be playing pop/rhythmic songs that appealed to an ethnic audience - to me, a Rhythmic station is still a Rhythmic station, regardless of how many rock songs there happen to be in the pop chart at that time

 

[acesup]

For me, this is what it comes down to

The Los Angeles market is 40% Hispanic - KAMP's audience is 66% Hispanic, so they are clearly targeting an Ethnic audience that is not representative of the market in general

They aren't just choosing songs that "test well in their market" - they're choosing songs that test well with a Rhythmic-oriented, ethnic audience

They're not "clearly" doing anything of the sort. They're programming to the market, as any smart station is going to do. Do they have any control over how much of any particular audience segment CHOOSES to listen to them? No, they don't.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous - if they were programming to the market, their audience would be about 40% Hispanic, not 66%

And lol of course they have control over who chooses to listen to them, just like Hot AC stations have control over who chooses to listen to them - they test their songs with that particular population group

If you didn't understand that statement, then you have obviously never programmed and as such should not be commenting about that which you don't know.

 

[justpassingthough]

Simply playing rhythmic artists on a CHR does not make you a rhythmic CHR, though.

No, but refusing to play anything with a guitar in it makes you a rhythmic CHR

If 18-34 demographics in L. A. are really 85% non-white, then any station targeting this audience should be reporting to the Rhythmic panel

If ten rock songs were to vault into the CHR Top 20 within the next year, KAMP wouldn't change anything, and it would still only be playing pop/rhythmic songs that appealed to an ethnic audience - to me, a Rhythmic station is still a Rhythmic station, regardless of how many rock songs there happen to be in the pop chart at that time

Programming to your audience's tastes alone, also doesn't make you a Rhythmic CHR. KAMP programs the hits that are appropriate for the market. They play heavy on the rhythmic, but were the first on many mainstream songs like Pink "Raise Your Glass". As mentioned above, CHR stations shouldn't play the songs on the chart, the songs on the chart should reflect what CHR stations are playing.

 

[XCountry285]

not playing songs like "Animal" By Neon Trees, "Maybe" By Sick Puppies, anything by Paramore, Kings of Leon, 30 Seconds To Mars, My Chemical Romance, Linkin Park, Paper Tongues, and other rock acts makes you a rhythmic leaning CHR. But if they play one rock song on their station often that's current based then they're a CHR. CHR-Rhythmics ignore the rock product. Adult CHR's ignore songs from Pitbull and stuff.

 

[CHRles]

Well that's interesting. Hot 107.9 Syracuse has been CHR/Pop since around 1996, and currently they don't play "Animal" By Neon Trees, "Maybe" By Sick Puppies, anything by Paramore, Kings of Leon, 30 Seconds To Mars, My Chemical Romance, Linkin Park, Paper Tongues, and other rock acts. Furthermore, Syracuse's population is by and large non-ethnic white, and Hot 107.9 is the dominant station among 18-34 year olds.
By design Hot 107.9's always had more of a Rhythmic slant, as well a youthful and current-intensive playlist, in part to combat the more conservative CHR in the market - 93Q. Yet WWHT has played some crossover Rock when Pop/Rock song get big enough. Currently that's not the case yet with My Chemical Romance (though Rhythmic leaning 104.5 SNX Grand Rapids is on it), 30 Seconds To Mars, Paramore, etc.
When and if you'll see an abundant amount of Pop/Rock titles inside the Top 20 on the CHR/Pop charts, that's when you can question the validity of a station like Amp in terms of format classification. My guess is that if that were to happen (more Pop/Rock big hits) you'd likely see Amp embrace the Rock records. Right now though the CHR/Pop P1 audience, both 18-34 and (surprise surprise) 25-54 year olds in many markets just aren't into hearing Pop/Rock, at least not on their CHR/Pop station.

So yeah, you've got a number of young kids on this message board, and a few small-market radio employees on here that are crying foul over the inclusion of Amp Radio's inclusion on the panel. They'll likely continue to frown upon this situation despite our best efforts to justify the reasons for KAMP's placement on the panel. Were these individuals to actually get out of their provincial state of mind and look at the bigger picture, they might be able to get a better understanding of why Amp Radio, at the present time, does fit within the boundaries of CHR/Pop.

 

[atlantaboy]

When and if you'll see an abundant amount of Pop/Rock titles inside the Top 20 on the CHR/Pop charts, that's when you can question the validity of a station like Amp in terms of format classification. My guess is that if that were to happen (more Pop/Rock big hits) you'd likely see Amp embrace the Rock records.

I guess this might be the core of the issue - if there were 20 rock hits on the CHR chart right now, IMO none of them would be testing well with Hispanics in L. A.- KAMP isn't ignoring pop/rock because of current musical trends - it's ignoring pop/rock cause it doesn't test well with their ethnic demographic (which is why it couldn't get Raise Your Glass out of low rotation)

Really strange argument IMO to say "if CHR starts leaning more rock next year, then we'll move KAMP to the Rhythmic panel, cause it'll stand out too much"

KAMP is targeting an ethnic audience which does not like the sound of a guitar - the number of rock songs on the CHR chart isn't going to change that

 

[CHRles]

KAMP is targeting an ethnic audience which does not like the sound of a guitar - the number of rock songs on the CHR chart isn't going to change that

Who says Hispanics don't like Rock music??? They may be big on Rhythmic music, but Rock radio oftentimes also does well in large Hispanic markets. How else would L.A. be able to have not one but TWO Modern Rock stations? One of the most successful Modern Rockers in the country is the Buzz in Houston, which has a large Hispanic population as well. One of El Paso's top stations is consistently Rock outlet KLAQ, and that market is 80 percent Hispanic. Albuquerque has both a Rock and a Modern Rock station.

On the other hand, Atlantaboy, Active Rock and Modern Rock radio isn't doing well as it used to in places like...Atlanta. It's also doing badly in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and the Rock and Modern Rock stations in Portland are both in the mid 2s in ratings.

"The sound of the guitar" is just not as big as it used to be, that's the reality of 2011.

 

[acesup]

not playing songs like "Animal" By Neon Trees, "Maybe" By Sick Puppies, anything by Paramore, Kings of Leon, 30 Seconds To Mars, My Chemical Romance, Linkin Park, Paper Tongues, and other rock acts makes you a rhythmic leaning CHR. But if they play one rock song on their station often that's current based then they're a CHR. CHR-Rhythmics ignore the rock product. Adult CHR's ignore songs from Pitbull and stuff.

Neon Trees - peaked at 7.

Sick Puppies - currently at 22.

Paramore - last hit record peaked at 8, if my memory serves me correctly, and sounded VERY Hot AC.

Kings of Leon - I'm sorry, when was the last time they had a hit at CHR? Use Somebody was released in 12/2008.

30 Seconds to Mars - When was the last time that they had a hit at CHR? The current single peaked at #7 in its home format, Alternative. It may get some CHR airplay, but I wouldn't be rushing to play it and the last two stations that I have been involved with in the programming department - one as PD and the other as APD/MD - were both heritage, adult-leaning stations that would have loved that kind of record to begin with.

My Chemical Romance - When was the last time that they had a hit at CHR? (And, please, don't try to call "Sing" a hit.. first of all, it's not a hit, yet, at #45, and it's not a great record, even then.)

Paper Tongues - Have they even had a hit, at CHR? (Answer: no.)

Linkin Park - okay, I'll give you that one.

The absence of "rock" product does not automatically equal that a station is a Rhythm-leaning CHR. There are stations that don't play much rock (perhaps because the rock product that is crossing over to CHR is not that strong, with a few exceptions?) that happen to balance themselves VERY well between a bubblegum-core / "down the middle" CHR and rhythmic-leaning. Please, if you're going to continue this argument, come up with a BETTER argument? What sells CDs? What are the leading digital sales tracks, iTunes or otherwise? What are the songs that typically test the best (hint: NOT rock, in most places)? The answer to all three questions are either "bubblegum pop" or "rhythmic-leaning pop".

Oh, by the way, all of those bands that you mentioned, their home in the Los Angeles market is one of two places: KROQ or KYSR. You're never going to hear those records on KIIS or KAMP, unless they come back with astronomical test scores with the target demos.

If you want to hear the bands that you mentioned and those like them, mixed in with the bubblegum stuff, there's a format for that. It's called "Hot AC."

 

[justpassingthough]

Very well said, CHRles and acesup. KAMP isn't the problem in this scenario. The problem is a lack of rock product, mixed with a lack of interest in what limited rock is available and appropriate for CHR stations. This isn't only a problem with ethnic audiences- its symptomatic of nearly 20 years in decline in rock music and the rock format. Rock and its various incarnations are now largely the domain of the 25-54 audience- as these were the generations that grew up with rock as children. Rhythmic music has been the dominant form of music for those in the 18-34 range, and CHR is and will continue to reflect this until whatever is next comes along (although judging by the past few years of music it appears rhythmic is still king, it has just shifted from hip hop intensive to pop/electro intensive)

As you pointed out, we have not one, but two, Alternative stations in LA. Both draw a sizable portion of Hispanic audiences. If I'm not mistaken, KROQ is top 5 in 18-34 amongst both whites and Hispanics. It makes the argument that KAMP is rhythmic simply because Hispanics listen to it sound completely baseless.

 

[XCountry285]

not playing songs like "Animal" By Neon Trees, "Maybe" By Sick Puppies, anything by Paramore, Kings of Leon, 30 Seconds To Mars, My Chemical Romance, Linkin Park, Paper Tongues, and other rock acts makes you a rhythmic leaning CHR. But if they play one rock song on their station often that's current based then they're a CHR. CHR-Rhythmics ignore the rock product. Adult CHR's ignore songs from Pitbull and stuff.

Neon Trees - peaked at 7.

Sick Puppies - currently at 22.

Paramore - last hit record peaked at 8, if my memory serves me correctly, and sounded VERY Hot AC.

Kings of Leon - I'm sorry, when was the last time they had a hit at CHR? Use Somebody was released in 12/2008.

30 Seconds to Mars - When was the last time that they had a hit at CHR? The current single peaked at #7 in its home format, Alternative. It may get some CHR airplay, but I wouldn't be rushing to play it and the last two stations that I have been involved with in the programming department - one as PD and the other as APD/MD - were both heritage, adult-leaning stations that would have loved that kind of record to begin with.

My Chemical Romance - When was the last time that they had a hit at CHR? (And, please, don't try to call "Sing" a hit.. first of all, it's not a hit, yet, at #45, and it's not a great record, even then.)

Paper Tongues - Have they even had a hit, at CHR? (Answer: no.)

Linkin Park - okay, I'll give you that one.

The absence of "rock" product does not automatically equal that a station is a Rhythm-leaning CHR. There are stations that don't play much rock (perhaps because the rock product that is crossing over to CHR is not that strong, with a few exceptions?) that happen to balance themselves VERY well between a bubblegum-core / "down the middle" CHR and rhythmic-leaning. Please, if you're going to continue this argument, come up with a BETTER argument? What sells CDs? What are the leading digital sales tracks, iTunes or otherwise? What are the songs that typically test the best (hint: NOT rock, in most places)? The answer to all three questions are either "bubblegum pop" or "rhythmic-leaning pop".

Oh, by the way, all of those bands that you mentioned, their home in the Los Angeles market is one of two places: KROQ or KYSR. You're never going to hear those records on KIIS or KAMP, unless they come back with astronomical test scores with the target demos.

If you want to hear the bands that you mentioned and those like them, mixed in with the bubblegum stuff, there's a format for that. It's called "Hot AC."

I Think Linkin Park yes is good. But My Chemical Romance had a hit with Teenagers, The Black Parade. No the record is very good.I don't know if you have listened to the ENTIRE record as well as their other material but the Black Parade the last album they had was a very much liked album. Sick Puppies had All The Same before Maybe on the charts, Kings of Leon had Sex on Fire on the charts as well.

 

[acesup]

not playing songs like "Animal" By Neon Trees, "Maybe" By Sick Puppies, anything by Paramore, Kings of Leon, 30 Seconds To Mars, My Chemical Romance, Linkin Park, Paper Tongues, and other rock acts makes you a rhythmic leaning CHR. But if they play one rock song on their station often that's current based then they're a CHR. CHR-Rhythmics ignore the rock product. Adult CHR's ignore songs from Pitbull and stuff.

Neon Trees - peaked at 7.

Sick Puppies - currently at 22.

Paramore - last hit record peaked at 8, if my memory serves me correctly, and sounded VERY Hot AC.

Kings of Leon - I'm sorry, when was the last time they had a hit at CHR? Use Somebody was released in 12/2008.

30 Seconds to Mars - When was the last time that they had a hit at CHR? The current single peaked at #7 in its home format, Alternative. It may get some CHR airplay, but I wouldn't be rushing to play it and the last two stations that I have been involved with in the programming department - one as PD and the other as APD/MD - were both heritage, adult-leaning stations that would have loved that kind of record to begin with.

My Chemical Romance - When was the last time that they had a hit at CHR? (And, please, don't try to call "Sing" a hit.. first of all, it's not a hit, yet, at #45, and it's not a great record, even then.)

Paper Tongues - Have they even had a hit, at CHR? (Answer: no.)

Linkin Park - okay, I'll give you that one.

The absence of "rock" product does not automatically equal that a station is a Rhythm-leaning CHR. There are stations that don't play much rock (perhaps because the rock product that is crossing over to CHR is not that strong, with a few exceptions?) that happen to balance themselves VERY well between a bubblegum-core / "down the middle" CHR and rhythmic-leaning. Please, if you're going to continue this argument, come up with a BETTER argument? What sells CDs? What are the leading digital sales tracks, iTunes or otherwise? What are the songs that typically test the best (hint: NOT rock, in most places)? The answer to all three questions are either "bubblegum pop" or "rhythmic-leaning pop".

Oh, by the way, all of those bands that you mentioned, their home in the Los Angeles market is one of two places: KROQ or KYSR. You're never going to hear those records on KIIS or KAMP, unless they come back with astronomical test scores with the target demos.

If you want to hear the bands that you mentioned and those like them, mixed in with the bubblegum stuff, there's a format for that. It's called "Hot AC."

I Think Linkin Park yes is good. But My Chemical Romance had a hit with Teenagers, The Black Parade. No the record is very good.I don't know if you have listened to the ENTIRE record as well as their other material but the Black Parade the last album they had was a very much liked album. Sick Puppies had All The Same before Maybe on the charts, Kings of Leon had Sex on Fire on the charts as well.

Teenagers wasn't a hit. I'd wouldn't call a Hot 100 peak of #67 a hit. If you think they're worthy of getting CHR airplay, then your beef is with the record company for servicing the wrong records, not with radio. In regards to Sick Puppies, All the Same wasn't a hit, either. Sex on Fire was a cool record, but it failed not once, but twice as a single. That ought to tell you something.

 

[atlantaboy]

KAMP isn't the problem in this scenario. The problem is a lack of rock product

Then why did they drop Raise Your Glass out of low rotation when it hit #1 nationwide? (And #1 on I-Tunes?)

You guys are assuming KAMP is really a CHR, which would play rock product if more of it was out there - I think it's a Rhythmic station which wouldn't touch rock product no matter how popular it was

 

[atlantaboy]

On the other hand, Atlantaboy, Active Rock and Modern Rock radio isn't doing well as it used to in places like...Atlanta. It's also doing badly in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and the Rock and Modern Rock stations in Portland are both in the mid 2s in ratings.

"The sound of the guitar" is just not as big as it used to be, that's the reality of 2011.

???

You need to look up Triple A and Hot AC ratings in most of those cities - Atlanta has the second highest rated AAA station in the country, and almost everything it plays has a guitar (ATL also has a really successful Active Rock station - not sure where you got that from??)

In Chicago and Detroit BTW, Hot AC clobbers CHR

 

[acesup]

On the other hand, Atlantaboy, Active Rock and Modern Rock radio isn't doing well as it used to in places like...Atlanta. It's also doing badly in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and the Rock and Modern Rock stations in Portland are both in the mid 2s in ratings.

"The sound of the guitar" is just not as big as it used to be, that's the reality of 2011.

???

You need to look up Triple A and Hot AC ratings in most of those cities - Atlanta has the second highest rated AAA station in the country, and almost everything it plays has a guitar (ATL also has a really successful Active Rock station - not sure where you got that from??)

In Chicago and Detroit BTW, Hot AC clobbers CHR

Where did he say anything about AAA or Hot AC in his post? He said "Active Rock" and "Modern Rock". Neither of those are AAA or Hot AC.

By the way, in both Chicago and Detroit, the market is oversaturated with Urban, Urban AC, Rhythmic, and CHR - while being underserved by true Hot AC - for any of the CHRs to "clobber" Hot AC.

Your arguments are becoming almost as bad as Fox News, when it comes to spinning and twisting the facts to benefit your own agenda.

 

[justpassingthough]

KAMP isn't the problem in this scenario. The problem is a lack of rock product

Then why did they drop Raise Your Glass out of low rotation when it hit #1 nationwide? (And #1 on I-Tunes?)

You guys are assuming KAMP is really a CHR, which would play rock product if more of it was out there - I think it's a Rhythmic station which wouldn't touch rock product no matter how popular it was

Most likely because it was spinning "Raise Your Glass" before KIIS or KBIG. By the time it had hit #1 on the nationwide charts, it was stale, as most songs are, with the exception of songs that track up the charts extremely fast. KAMP had moved on by then, while KIIS and KBIG were playing the record to death.

Although the ratings don't reflect this, since 97.1 switched to CHR, it has been pretty consistent about breaking tracks, rhythmic, pop and rock before KIIS. Once they're a little burned out, KAMP moves on and KIIS beats the track to a proverbial death. Kevin Weatherly is an outstanding programmer in this regard, as KAMP always sounds fresh and KIIS always sounds 'safe'. This safety probably benefits KIIS in the PPMs as repetition is the name of the game in terms of CHR, but it makes KAMP sound younger and hipper.

For example, KAMP has been playing Rihanna "S&M" in heavy rotation this week. I have yet to hear it once on KIIS but I know by the time the song reaches top 10 on the CHR chart, KAMP will be done with it. You seem to take that as a sign that they aren't a mainstream CHR, though, since they must play all the hits exactly when they're popular on the charts, or they're not a true CHR.

 

[OClistener]

I disagree justpassingthrough that kAMP is always sounding fresh since they still have David Guetta's "Memories", Mike Posner's "Please Don't Go", and Black Eyed Pease "Meet me Halfway" on medium-heavy rotation. I also disagree that kAMP is quick to break pop and rock tracks since they waited for both of Enrique's songs and Train's "Hey Soul Sister" to hit the top 15 and top 5, respectively before adding them to their playlist. Furthermore, I still remember that Miley Cyrus's "Party in the USA" was only added once it had hit #3 and played for three weeks before being removed from their playlist. While KIIS isn't much better, I wouldn't say that kAMP is more fresh. I think KIIS and kAMP are more likely to be receptive to add songs though that fit the rhythmic genre than the rock genre due to the market they are trying to target. However, KIIS did also play on low rotation Lady Antebellum's "Need you Now" and One Republic's "All the right moves" on low rotation while kAMP didn't consider them.

I think one thing that is quite evident to me by looking at KIIS and kAMP's playlist is that they strongly prefer to play/add rhythmic/pop dance tracks or songs that young adults in clubs would dance to which is why kAMP added Rihanna's S&M and KIIS added Kesha's Blow, recently.

However, for those of you who are looking for more variety, make the switch to 104.3 MY FM (KBIG) because this station plays most of the songs not heard on KIIS and kAMP that are on the top 40 chart along with several dance tracks.

 

[CHRles]

Yes, and My FM also plays 80s titles, and plenty of 90s titles, which are a big no-no on CHR radio, especially out in Cali, but are acceptable on many Hot A/C or Bright A/C stations. Don't get me wrong, KBIG is an excellent sounding station playing adult friendly recent Rhythmic/Pop, along with titles that work on Gen X stations, Modern A/C titles that used to air on (now defunct) Star 98.7, and even some K-Rock anthems from the 80s. Yet, the end result is far from representing CHR radio.

Songs My FM plays includes
INXS "Never Tear Us Apart"
Faith Hill "Breath"
Depeche Mode "Policy of Truth"
Bon Jovi "Livin on a Prayer"
Madonna "Into The Groove"
Guns N Roses "November Rain"
U2 "Pride"
Radiohead "Creep"
Modern English "I Melt With You"
New Order "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Joan Jett "I Love Rock & Roll"
Sheryl Crow "Strong Enough"
Journey "Don't Stop Believin"
Oasis "Champagne Supernova"
Bryan Adams "Summer of 69"
Soft Cell "Tainted Love"
Def Leppard "Pour Some Sugar On Me"
When In Rome "The Promise"
Depeche Mode "just Can't Get Enough"
Pschedelic Furs "Love My Way"
Corey Hart "Sunglasses At Night"
Nirvana "Come As You Are"
The Cure "Lovesong"
Lisa Loeb "Stay"
Pat Benatar "Hit Me With Your Best Shot"


Now I've checked around and there's only one station on the CHR/Pop panel that plays these records...and it's a Wilmington, Delaware (WSTW) station that has traditionally straddled the lines between CHR and Hot A/C.

 

[atlantaboy]

On the other hand, Atlantaboy, Active Rock and Modern Rock radio isn't doing well as it used to in places like...Atlanta. It's also doing badly in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and the Rock and Modern Rock stations in Portland are both in the mid 2s in ratings.

"The sound of the guitar" is just not as big as it used to be, that's the reality of 2011.

???

You need to look up Triple A and Hot AC ratings in most of those cities - Atlanta has the second highest rated AAA station in the country, and almost everything it plays has a guitar (ATL also has a really successful Active Rock station - not sure where you got that from??)

In Chicago and Detroit BTW, Hot AC clobbers CHR

Where did he say anything about AAA or Hot AC in his post? He said "Active Rock" and "Modern Rock". Neither of those are AAA or Hot AC.

He said "the sound of the guitar" isn't big in 2011

"Modern Rock" doesn't do well where there's a huge Triple A station that leans Alternative