Why Is "Lite-FM" Doesn't Play 70's Music Anymore?

[radiowizard101]

I agree with all of what Gregg said. And Dave, your responses support my theory that Radio HATES older demographics and CERTAINLY does DISCRIMINATE against the 55+ listener. It is blatent discrimination of 33% of the population.

Us gray hairs are starting to get ticked off about it too.

 

[EasyBakeOven]

Radio itself does not hate older demos, it's the advertisers that HATE them.

 

[davideduardo]

The switch to more contemporary music on Lite-FM and B101 has not been good. Lite used to be the solid #1 station among 25-54 demos. Today, it's not only dropped to #2 but KTU now has a full share lead over Lite in this demo.

And, in November, they were beaten by WHTZ, too.

Guess what? All three have the same owner. I'll bet they are happy at having the top 3 25-54 stations. And the success of the other two just shows that more contemporary music has greater appeal across all parts of 25-54.

And B101 used to be a solid #1 in Philly, book after book after book. It now competes with KYW for that honor.

Generally, WBEB wins except when there is major news happening.

I don't know how it's doing 25-54, where the money is, but in 6+ numbers, the move to more conteporary, harder edged music has clearly blown off the upper demos on these two stations.

WBEB is solid #1 in 25-54 as well as 35-64. For the last months of '11, KYW averaged 12th in 26-54. And despite having considerably more inventory, KYW is behind WBEB in revenues with a much more expensive format.

And as for David Eduardo's statement that there's no money to be made in the 55+ demo, that seems illogical to me as well.

As people get older, it takes more impressions for an ad to create a sale. At some point, it costs more to make the sale than the profit on the sale. At present, most ad buys are in the 18 to 54 range, including all kinds of subsets. Increasingly, it's becoming, like network TV, 18-49.

If a Soft AC station gets a 6 share, shouldn't that be as valuable to an advertiser as a 3 share for a Hip Hop station?

It's possible (as in the case of WDUV in Tampa) that the 3 share for soft AC is really a 0.5 share in 25-54, while the 3 share of the hip-hop station is really an 8 share in 18-34. I'll take the hip hop station to sell, any day.

Is there really no place anymore on AC stations for Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles, Elton John or Chicago music because much of it dates from the 70s? And anyone who likes these artists are of no use to advertisers?

When stations like WBEB and WLTW do music testing, they don't put any 55+ in the sample... so if the under-55 listeners don't score the songs by those artists high enough, they will not get played.

As was just posted by EasyBakeOven, radio does not dislike older listeners... advertisers do. And they don't pay for delivery of impressions against demos they don't ask their agency to buy.

 

[Seltzer]

I agree with all of what Gregg said. And Dave, your responses support my theory that Radio HATES older demographics and CERTAINLY does DISCRIMINATE against the 55+ listener. It is blatent discrimination of 33% of the population.

Us gray hairs are starting to get ticked off about it too.
[/quote

Please. Get sirius. Be done with it. Listen to 50s on 5 til your heart's content

 

[Ai4i]

Us gray hairs are starting to get ticked off about it too.

Easy does it 8)
Yours is the demographic with blood pressure issues with which to be concerned.

And yes, SXM has a number of channels which cater to the over the hill crowd.
Unfortunately, living on a fixed income...

 

[radiowizard101]

So, in essence, what you are saying is that advertisers don't want any customers over 55+. Or, is it because the advertisers aren't smart enough to create a message that the 55+ customer will respond to? Look and hear what's coming out of Madison Avenue. Mostly garbage.

I think it's because the advertising agencies have been scamming ota broadcasters for decades with ANCIENT THINKING.

Just think, Radio is missing out on 33% of the population. Talk about being dumb and stupid.

Keep drinking that younger demographic coolaide... Before you know it, you will be OLD too!!!

 

[Hardrocker9]

This is interesting, the evolution of AC seems to me to be what Hot AC used to be. The soft 80's songs that used to be a staple on stations like Lite and WALK seemed to be replaced by the more upbeat 80's songs such as duran duran ect, you only used to hear on WPLJ and Z 100 back in the day. Overall its seems harder and harder to distinguish what is Hot AC and what is AC anymore, at least to me.

 

[oldies76]

Just think, Radio is missing out on 33% of the population.

Many, many people over 55 do listen to the radio! Why do the late 50's 60's and early 70's still get played on select AM & FM stations, including WCBS? Because they are listening.

What David does not understand is that there is still demand for this older, timeless music. Who else would be listening to it in large masses, 38 year olds??

If the business side of radio, does not advertise to 55+, then why is this music still being played?

Based on his assumption, nothing before 1976 should ever be aired in 2012. But as we all know, that's is not the case.

 

[Gregg]

David, I'd love to set up an experiment in Tampa.

Let's get WDUV (Soft 60s, 70s, 80s AC, always rated #1) and WPOI (new Contemporary Hits station, rated #12, both owned by Cox) to advertise a half-priced roasted chicken at your local Publix market on a given day. Young and old like roast chicken, right? Run the same number of ads on both stations. Let's see which one brings in more people asking for their half-priced chicken.

I'd bet you dollars to donuts, WDUV would draw more customers asking for the chicken. As I said, older listeners DO NOT respond the same way to advertising as 20-somethings. But they don't disappear on their 55th birthday either. A 10 share of over-50s is still more valuable than a 3 share of 18-34s.

Gregg
[email protected]

 

[davideduardo]

David, I'd love to set up an experiment in Tampa.

Let's get WDUV (Soft 60s, 70s, 80s AC, always rated #1) and WPOI (new Contemporary Hits station, rated #12, both owned by Cox) to advertise a half-priced roasted chicken at your local Publix market on a given day. Young and old like roast chicken, right? Run the same number of ads on both stations. Let's see which one brings in more people asking for their half-priced chicken.

I'd bet you dollars to donuts, WDUV would draw more customers asking for the chicken. As I said, older listeners DO NOT respond the same way to advertising as 20-somethings. But they don't disappear on their 55th birthday either. A 10 share of over-50s is still more valuable than a 3 share of 18-34s.

The marketing people at a supermarket will tell you that price-item and loss leader promotion generally works to retain loyalty, not to change it. And that is particularly true with older consumers; they will have a preferred market once they have lived in an area a while. Since they know the location of everything they buy in the store, and are accustomed to the drive and even the staff, they are hesitant to change to another store unless the preferred store does something to annoy them.

Getting people to come in for something that you lose money on only work if they result in additional sales on the particular visit or repeat visits. Early on, Toys R Us made disposable diapers a loss leader. They knew that parents would come in for the prices on the diapers, and, more important, would feel almost guilty if they did not get some kind of clothing or toy item for the baby... resulting in sales.

Advertisers, in general, know that older consumers require more ad expense to convince and the bottom line is return on investment.... they will buy, but the cost per sale is too high to make the group interesting.

 

[davideduardo]

If the business side of radio, does not advertise to 55+, then why is this music still being played?

It's ad agencies and their clients who do not target radio campaigns (and budgets) against 55+, not radio.

In any case, I already explained the smattering of 60's music on classic hits stations... people under 55 heard those songs as frequently played gold in the 70's, and that music became part of their experience.

However, since Top 40 stations only played the biggest and, to some extent, best (there was not much music research until the mid to late 70's) songs, those mid-charters and many one-hit wonders did not get play and thus are irrelevant to the under-55's. And that's why a smattering of 50's is great, but deeper cuts are poison.

 

[davideduardo]

So, in essence, what you are saying is that advertisers don't want any customers over 55+. Or, is it because the advertisers aren't smart enough to create a message that the 55+ customer will respond to? Look and hear what's coming out of Madison Avenue. Mostly garbage.

Advertisers simply know that it takes more impressions to make a sale the older a consumer gets. So, that multiplies the number of spots they have to run to sell to older consumers. Often, the added cost voids any profit on an eventual sale. No matter how the creative is done, it takes more impressions.

I think it's because the advertising agencies have been scamming ota broadcasters for decades with ANCIENT THINKING.

It's not the agencies. Agencies are essentially the indentured servants of their clients. If the client says, "my marketing department wants to reach 18-49" then the agency does the campaign against 18-49. Period.

When you consider that consumer research goes back to around 1930 with Proctor & Gamble, when a client brings to the agency research that cost millions and millions of dollars, the agency follows the client dictates or loses the account.

Again, this is not an agency issue. It's not a radio issue. It's about clients measuring return on investment.

Just think, Radio is missing out on 33% of the population. Talk about being dumb and stupid.

And radio "misses out" on teens, too. That's because there is no teen money in radio. So if you do a station targeted at teens, and you don't get any 18+, you'll get no agency money... and little direct account money, either. With 55+, you may get some direct money, but little or no agency money. And in the big markets, you won't bill very much.

Keep drinking that younger demographic coolaide... Before you know it, you will be OLD too!!!

I'm out of everyone's target demo myself. But, unlike you, I understand that I make a poor target... no matter how much income I might have to spend.

 

[carolinaradio]

I guess my question is....AC is doing away with 70s music just like it did with 60s music in the late 90s and very early 00s, save for a few songs that continued to test female 25-54. Why is the 70s being phased out any different (actually, that decade has had more staying power)? It's the evolution of the format!

The songs that are no longer heard from Lite-FM are heard on CBS-FM, I'm sure.

 

[semoochie]

I keep coming back to this point about the 70s having more staying power, than the 60s. I still hear "Brown-eyed Girl" on AC and Beatles on Classic Rock. It' seems to me that the only way to tell if the 70s has more staying power is to wait until the 60s are gone from the radio and then wait ten years. This may take awhile. The last I heard, Tony Bennett was still making a profit.

 

[RBRadioWaves]

Never mind, "Mercy Mercy Me" was just played on Lite FM. If anything, they are restricting the 70s to nighttime only, or to a few songs per day, like they did with the 60s music until CC began clearing house in 2005.

 

[pjc1961]

Just curious, RBRadioWaves, apparently you were picking up some radio waves other than Lite FM 106.7 NYC since Marvin Gaye's "Mercy Mercy Me" did not air on WLTW NYC at any time on 1/21/12. The only Marvin Gaye song that did air was 1982's "Sexual Healing" at 2:18am. The Phil Collins song "Take Me Home" was airing on Lite FM at the time of your posting on Sat. evening 1/21/12. It's also a "Best Of The '80s" weekend on Lite FM - link: http://www.1067litefm.com/pages/80s/

Perhaps you heard a song that "sounds like" "Mercy Mercy Me" or you were tuned to another station. For example, songs that were playing on other NYC area stations at the time of your posting:

a song with a somewhat similar social theme - Stevie Wonder's "Living For the City" (late 1973 into early 1974) - was playing on WHUD-FM-100.7 Peekskill, NY.

This one's a stretch, but hey, ya never know, the choruses are "somewhat" similar: OneRepublic's "Good Life" was playing at that time on Fresh 102.7 WWFS-FM NYC.

I also checked the Mediabase log for Lite FM for the day of 1/21/12 and have checked on other days since this thread has started. Your second point is correct (which admittedly is the main thrust of your post): the only 1970s song I could find for 1/21 was "Cruel To Be Kind" by Nick Lowe (1979) which aired at 7:08pm. Other days have similar results - maybe 1 song per day, occasionally during the Delilah evening request show ("You Are So Beautiful" - Joe Cocker - 1975 comes to mind).

Is it possible there's missing song entries from the Mediabase log? Sure. But generally they're more accurate and thorough than the Yes.com site's logs. And there were a couple of stations with no song history lists to look at. Just mentioning that some folks "hear" a version of some things (songs, news, info, etc.) that may not be what was actually broadcast.

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Station playlists for 1/21/12 - evening to maybe jog your memory:

WLTW-FM-106.7 New York (AC) "LiteFM" Powered by MEDIABASE®

Time Played Artist - Title - Label - Year

8:59 PM MR. MISTER - Broken Wings - RCA '85
8:55 PM FRAY - How To Save A Life - Epic '06
8:52 PM ROMANTICS - What I Like About You - Nemperor '80
8:44 PM BRANIGAN, LAURA - Gloria - Atlantic '82
8:40 PM TRAIN - Hey, Soul Sister - BNA/Columbia - '10
8:35 PM COLLINS, PHIL - Take Me Home - Atlantic '86
8:30 PM ADELE - Someone Like You - XL/Columbia '11/'12
8:26 PM LAUPER, CYNDI - All Through The Night - Portrait '84
8:22 PM KOOL & THE GANG - Celebration - De-Lite '81
8:12 PM MADONNA - Lucky Star - Sire '84
8:08 PM BLACK EYED PEAS - I Gotta Feeling - Interscope '09
8:04 PM BERLIN - Take My Breath Away - Columbia '86
7:59 PM U2 - With Or Without You - Poly./PLG '87
7:53 PM MICHAEL, GEORGE - Father Figure - Columbia '88
7:50 PM UB40 - Red Red Wine - A&M '84 + '88
7:47 PM BANGLES - Eternal Flame - Columbia '89
7:43 PM FURTADO, NELLY - Say It Right - Mosley/Geffen/Interscope '06/'07
7:39 PM JOURNEY - Faithfully - Columbia '83
7:35 PM FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD - Relax - Poly./PLG '85
7:31 PM WILLIAMS, DENIECE - Let's Hear It For The Boy - Columbia '84
7:27 PM A-HA - Take On Me - Warner Bros. '85
7:23 PM POLICE - Every Breath You Take - A&M '83
7:19 PM CLARKSON, KELLY - Mr. Know It All - 19/RCA '11
7:15 PM HEART - These Dreams - Capitol '86
7:12 PM LENNON, JOHN - Woman - Geffen '81
7:08 PM LOWE, NICK - Cruel To Be Kind - Columbia '79
7:04 PM KEYS, ALICIA - Empire State Of Mind Pt. II - J/RMG '09/'10
7:00 PM COLLINS, PHIL - Sussudio - Atlantic '85

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WWFS-FM-102.7 New York (AC) "Fresh 102.7" Powered by MEDIABASE®

Time Played Artist - Title - Year

9:01 PM GYM CLASS HEROES - Stereo Hearts f/Adam Levine '11
8:57 PM PERRY, KATY - E.T. - '11
8:54 PM DEGRAW, GAVIN - Not Over You - '11/'12
8:50 PM BEYONCE - Irreplaceable '06/'07
8:46 PM FRAY - You Found Me - '08/'09
8:37 PM ONEREPUBLIC - Good Life - '11
8:33 PM SIXPENCE NONE THE RICHER - Kiss Me - '99
8:29 PM DAY, HOWIE - Collide - '04
8:26 PM RIHANNA - We Found Love f/Calvin Harris - '11/'12
8:22 PM CAILLAT, COLBIE - Fallin' For You - '09
8:19 PM SISTER HAZEL - All For You - '97
8:09 PM KINGS OF LEON - Use Somebody - '10
8:05 PM NATHANSON, MATT - Come On Get Higher - '08
8:01 PM ADELE - Someone Like You - '11/'12

*************************************************************************

WHUD-FM-100.7 Peekskill, NY (AC) "Westchester and the Hudson Valley's Music And Information Station" - "One great song after another!" Powered by MEDIABASE®

Time Played Artist - Title - Label - Year

9:01 PM TOTO - Hold The Line - Columbia '78
8:51 PM LITTLE RIVER BAND - The Night Owls - Capitol '81
8:37 PM WONDER, STEVIE - Living For The City - Tamla '73/'74
8:33 PM GRAMM, LOU - Just Between You And Me - Atlantic '89
8:28 PM JOHN, ELTON - Philadelphia Freedom - MCA '75
8:22 PM WHAM! - Careless Whisper - Columbia '84
8:13 PM WAR - Low Rider - United Artists '75
8:09 PM WINWOOD, STEVE - Back In The High Life Again - Poly./PLG '87
8:06 PM KC & THE SUNSHINE BAND - Shake Your Booty - Independent '76
8:02 PM ESTEFAN, GLORIA - Everlasting Love - Epic '95

 

[Ai4i]

I'm out of everyone's target demo myself...no matter how much income I might have to spend.

I proudly wear a badge that reads, "I am in the target demo that responds to messages such as,
'We need your support to keep the music you love on the air'."
If I lived in Thee Apple, with an HD receiver, WNYC would sell me four stations for the price of one.

Is there a target demo from whom noncomms derive most of their support?

 

[satech]

Is every weekend a "Best of the '80s Weekend" of WLTW now? It sure seems to have been that way for at least the past month.

 

[JustinCase]

Lite is perfect for the market -- this is modern, fast, professional NYC... not some small town.

CBS is doing well, because they focus on older demos, the folks who aren't as busy and thus can LISTEN longer... all you have to do is look at the cume (LTW 5.1-million to CBS 3.3-million) to see that 45% less people listen to CBS, but those folks listen longer, and thus give them great ratings.