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Why Is There Such Hostility Against JACK FM?

> Is this just a case of people afraid of change and wanting
> to naysay right out of the gate?

Ahhh... finally... a chance to get it all off my chest :)

Why do people dispise Jack? Some reasons below...

- For the most part, radio people don't 'get' Jack. They only want to believe the Kool-Aid their consultants are feeding them. (If you don't believe it, read some of the stuff from SOME consultants from time to time. They go as far as calling stations that buy in to the Jack philosophy 'Lemmings'.)

- Jack in many ways does what real radio does, but is more honest about it... and I think radio people don't like it. The 'We Play What We Want' philosophy isn't only part of Jack... it's part of most major radio stations out there. Few successful stations play 'requests'... but if your desire to hear 'Under Pressure' matches up with one of the few times it appears in the log, presto - as a station, you look like a good guy for playing someone's 'request'. Why give listeners hope that they may actually get to play what they want... Jack lays out the ground rules up front.

- Media geeks (the ones who post but have never been behind a console in their lives) hate it because it throws out the conventions of ordinary radio they've become experts in pontificating on. They can't put it in to a little box and put a ribbon on it, and it makes for fewer one-sided discussions about music, formats, and the holy grail of the 'right' way to run a radio station.

In many ways, I think Jack isn't that far from being the modern-day equivelant of the Drake Top 40 format in terms of execution and reaction. Both are formats that have very calculated formatics, and both threw out regular radio conventions.

At the end of the day, I think it's a misunderstanding of what Jack is about that makes those who visit sites like this hate it.
 
What you obviously can't see through your myopic viewpoint
is the ONLY real importance of Jack. It is the start of a
trend that could be the 'possible' end of the 30+ year copy cat,
play-it-safe mentality that you rail against. Just because
the music is to white, or to boring, or to old doesn't matter
in the long run. I have always questioned why we run such
limited formats and playlists compared to much of the rest
of the world where there are many non-traditional, large playlist
varied format stations. Things may finally change here in that
direction. It needs to, to keep up with all of the competition
facing the industry.

For a non-conformist, you sure don't allow anybody else any pass
for anything remotely quirky or different, from your own
views. Look at how close minded that makes YOU. Then again, you
are radio's savior and we all have seen and heard of your
international reputation and know you're well above everybody
including the unknown, lowest form of radio life Cadillac Jack.

You must have so little vision, beyond your flimsy bashing
of everyone, that I believe you can't bring a good format to
fruition because of your anger and intolerence. The bad thing is that
if you would just chill out and present facts without acting
like a eight year old bully, people could actually attempt to
understand your points and you could add some valid comments,
but no....


I hope you enjoy dancing with yourself. It must be lonely
at "the top." And stay away from under my desk. I'll leave
it at that.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 10/12/05 01:42 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> > Is this just a case of people afraid of change and wanting
>
> > to naysay right out of the gate?
>
> Ahhh... finally... a chance to get it all off my chest :)
>
> Why do people dispise Jack? Some reasons below...
>
> - For the most part, radio people don't 'get' Jack. They
> only want to believe the Kool-Aid their consultants are
> feeding them. (If you don't believe it, read some of the
> stuff from SOME consultants from time to time. They go as
> far as calling stations that buy in to the Jack philosophy
> 'Lemmings'.)
>

Great post! This particle paragraph caught my eye. I've been reading everything I can on JACK FM and I've read article after article. Most have been in favor of shaking up radio with this new format; others expound how radio is doomed and these are the end times.

The reason this one paragraph garnered my attention was I read an article last night. The writer was upset about WCBS flipping to JACK FM and then he posted a consultant's thoughts. The consultant said Infinity should have had a massive countdown, with block parties and sendoffs for Cousin Brucie et al. Then they could have said that New York was going to be getting this great new station and for everyone to listen when the switch took place.

Um, that's great.

HELLO?! The minute JACK FM launched, the very second the block party wound down and the Beastie Boys blared across 101.1FM, WCBS's listeners would've left *ANYWAY*. So it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other how Infinity would've handled the format flip.

Sorry if I got a bit rambly there; my point being: consultants make me laugh.
 
> The reason this one paragraph garnered my attention was I
> read an article last night. The writer was upset about WCBS
> flipping to JACK FM and then he posted a consultant's
> thoughts. The consultant said Infinity should have had a
> massive countdown, with block parties and sendoffs for
> Cousin Brucie et al. Then they could have said that New York
> was going to be getting this great new station and for
> everyone to listen when the switch took place.
>
> Um, that's great.
>
> HELLO?! The minute JACK FM launched, the very second the
> block party wound down and the Beastie Boys blared across
> 101.1FM, WCBS's listeners would've left *ANYWAY*. So it
> wouldn't have mattered one way or the other how Infinity
> would've handled the format flip.
>
> Sorry if I got a bit rambly there; my point being:
> consultants make me laugh.
>
You're right. As much I disliked the bum's rush the jock at 101.1 got (several were/are friends), it would not have mattered how the flip happened - when it did, the exit signs were lit.

Where did you see this? Got an URL?

CJ
 
> You're right. As much I disliked the bum's rush the jock at
> 101.1 got (several were/are friends), it would not have
> mattered how the flip happened - when it did, the exit signs
> were lit.
>
> Where did you see this? Got an URL?
>
> CJ
>



This 23-year old's a big-fan of your station, as if you couldn't tell I was ;) Again, the Doubting Thomases say the format skews older but I really enjoy it.

But I digress.

I most definitely have a link to that article. Here you go. :)

http://www.radiomarketingnexus.com/2005/09/jack_fm_new_yor.html

I appreciate his enthusiasm but he's misguided. As someone posted in the comments section of the website this was posted on, the old WCBS listeners would still want to hear doo-wop when JACK FM signed on, not "Lick It Up" by KISS.

Your thoughts on the PR guy's thoughts, jack?
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by FilmCritic3000 on 10/12/05 08:31 AM.</FONT></P>
 
>
> - For the most part, radio people don't 'get' Jack. They
> only want to believe the Kool-Aid their consultants are
> feeding them. (If you don't believe it, read some of the
> stuff from SOME consultants from time to time. They go as
> far as calling stations that buy in to the Jack philosophy
> 'Lemmings'.)
>


Huh???...radio people <u>created</u> Jack. I also question how many of the perpetual critics on this (and most other radio-info.com) boards are just deejay wannabees who've never actually worked in the biz. Witness the number of 22 year olds who constantly whine about the lack of 50s music on oldies radio...I'd bet few if any of them have even been inside a radio station let alone worked in one.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that stations that "go Jack" are lemmings, they ARE certainly jumping on the latest fad format bandwagon. I think it's too soon to tell whether or not Jack & it's clones are a success with the public at large. One book does not tell you much of anything.


> In many ways, I think Jack isn't that far from being the
> modern-day equivelant of the Drake Top 40 format in terms of
> execution and reaction. Both are formats that have very
> calculated formatics, and both threw out regular radio
> conventions.
>

And if boards like this existed in 1967, they would be flooded with posts about how Drake "ruined" radio by "throwing out the personality".
 
wrong

You're predictable if nothing else- you always stoop to juvinile shots when you back yourself into a corner you can't B.S. yourself out of.


> OK, now you and David must be locked in a heavy hump. Umm, OK Oldiescat.
>
> > Uh, last time I looked, the one market where Jack is a dud
> > is NYC and the only other where's it's sort of stuck is
> > Denver. Everywhere else JACK is on fire in the ratings
> (you know, that's where actual listeners actually determine how
> > successful a radio station is, Arbitron and all).
 
JACK FM?

I'm with you on the "bitter old radio guy".

Of course, now "you suck" just like me <LMAO>.

> Cat,
>
> Our fellow poster, "musicloverII", doesn't give out any
> information on himself so I guess we have to assume that he
> is a bitter old radio guy who made his living babysitting
> other people's formats in various markets. He seems to
> dislike change (and very likely) other people.
>
> Instead of a civil discussion of the format, his posts are
> mostly "you suck, I rule".
>
> CJ
>
 
JACK FM?

Some people can only bring themselves up by trying to knock others down- that's his deal. Sucks to be him.

>
> Why are you so negative to Cat? He knows his facts and is
> very smart (in radio). The only way you feel more powerful
> is by insulting other posters and it is getting annoying.
> Grow up.
 
Hostility Against JACK

Yes, God forbid that a new format concept is popular and other stations follow suit.

In our perfect little radio world, somebody discovers a new angle, it works like gangbusters but just the one or two stations attempts the same so all the other radio geeks can't say "gee, look at everybody jumping on the bandwagon".

With that mindset, "Survivor" would still be the only reality TV show.


>
> While I wouldn't go so far as to say that stations that "go
> Jack" are lemmings, they ARE certainly jumping on the latest
> fad format bandwagon. I think it's too soon to tell whether
> or not Jack & it's clones are a success with the public at
> large. One book does not tell you much of anything.
>
>
> > In many ways, I think Jack isn't that far from being the
> > modern-day equivelant of the Drake Top 40 format in terms
> of
> > execution and reaction. Both are formats that have very
> > calculated formatics, and both threw out regular radio
> > conventions.
> >
>
> And if boards like this existed in 1967, they would be
> flooded with posts about how Drake "ruined" radio by
> "throwing out the personality".
>
 
Hostility

THEN GET OFF THIS FREAKIN' BOARD AND CRAWL BACK INTO YOUR CAVE!!!

> >
> Yes, it bores me to read such drivel coming out of people's
> mouthes when they have an agenda but don't want to tell you.
> And might I add that my annoyance is your time spent as you
> obviously feel the need to feel me up by reading my posts.
 
> Huh???...radio people created Jack.

Oh, I don't disagree. My point is that there are a number of people in the business who just don't get the format. (Classic example is Cousin Brucie expounding on the loss of 'personality' radio in a TV interview he did shortly after inking his Sirius deal. If you read any of the anti-Jack over at McVay Media (http://www.mcvaymedia.com/) you'll find that even those in the business of consulting stations don't get it.)
 
Re: JACK FM?

> That's not always true, in fact, it's not inconceivable that
> a suburban stick could beat a city grade, in fact, some
> outbilled them in the past. But let's not let the reality of
> stale and boring product get in the way of pointing fingers
> at the real reasons. But for the most part, you're correct.
> In Chicago, it's a toss up
>
The Chicago Arbitron Market is rated with 11 counties in 3 states, (Illinois: Cook, Lake, McHenry, Kane, Kendall, Will, Grundy, & Dupage. Lake & Porter Counties in Indiana, and Kenosha County in Wisconsin) so with that in mind, it's rather difficult, but not impossible to outbill a city grade stick, especially with running different ads on the 3 signals. It's not like Rockford or South Bend Indiana markets as examples where Rockford is rated by 2 counties and South Bend by just 1 county. Now if Nine FM were willing to run ads on the WDEK signal targeting Dekalb & Rockford areas, then they would have a chance to outbill Jack FM. But we'll never know the true billing for Nine FM since they're independent and not bligated to release that information. Bonneville International is also private, but I believe they voluntarily release the billing information, at least in Chicago. If Jack is programmed properly (same with the clones), there's a chance this will be a regular format and not a fad format. But only time will tell if it's successul. But I don't think a 24 hour jukejox Jack will be successful in the long run.
 
Re: JACK FM?

> I'm with you on the "bitter old radio guy".
>
> Of course, now "you suck" just like me .

Yeah, I suck all the way to the bank, 'Cat. I can deal with it.
 
JACK FM?

<LMAO> Right on- I'm with you.

>
> Yeah, I suck all the way to the bank, 'Cat. I can deal with it.
>
> > I'm with you on the "bitter old radio guy".
> >
> > Of course, now "you suck" just like me .
 
Re: Why Is There Such Hostility Against

> > Let me correct you since you're wrong. Jack is a new radio
>
> > concept. The music MIX is different and there aren't jocks
>
> > (for now) and Jack has an attitude. Its the latest thing
> in
> > radio, even if it doesn't last long. Plus, lots of people
> > like Jack.
>
> You're wrong. It's not new, it's a mainstream CHR format
> leaning white rock in some instances playing mainstream CHR
> hits with some urban 25-44 mass appeal artists from the last
> 20 years. There's nothing NEW here. It's everything that
> caused radio to go broke 25 years ago. It's not the greatest
> thing in the world as purported by the lackeys.

I'm still disagreeing with you. Jack is new to radio. We haven't ever seen this kind of radio. The music mix may be somewhat simlar to long ago, but this concept is differnt.
>
> > >
> > > Stop with the Jack is Great crap OK?
> >
> > First off, tibbs is allowed to have an opinion. Who are
> you
> > to tell him what to think?
>
> It's not telling someone what to think, it's telling someone
> to stop posting under false pretenses. The person is either
> an employee, has a stake in the format at either the
> corporate level for Infinity or wishes to.

Just because he likes Jack, doesn't mean he works for Infinity or anything like that. He is allowed to like Jack. You don't have to, but don't tell him what to like and that "false pretenses" is a bunch of crap.

>
> > It's not, it's a new > > format replacing others, it's on
> autopilot and it's a crap. There's not alot of brains needed
> to do it and the
> > > outrage doesn't come from replacing some stale old
> > stations,
> > > it comes from the bullshit excuses used to put the tired
>
> > ass
> > > format on the air in the first place. It's everything
> > radio
> > > never wanted to do and everything radio criticized and
> > > ridiculed when many of us were telling them they were
> > headed
> > > in the wrong direction almost 10 years ago. No vision,
> > head
> > > in the sand, time passes by and radio begins to lose
> > > clients, it resorts to something it belittled for years
> > and
> > > now it's a genius idea. Please, go blow it out your ass
> > with
> > > this stupidity. It's sheer nonsense with lackeys who
> have
> > > their tongues up the asses of the very people who'd fire
>
> > > them in a second.
> >
> > You are allowed to have an opinion, but your bi***ing and
> > whining is really getting annoying.
> >

>
> I guess I'll put you in my "not a fan, not possible client
> folder". That makes 9, the other one is growing much faster
> thanks.

I don't care if I'm in your little folder. It seems like you don't like anyone who disagrees with you.

> > >
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
This site has been updated! Check it out! Thanks
</P>
 
Whoa big fella...

> - For the most part, radio people don't 'get' Jack.

I'd like to know when this statement become the standard in defense lexicon. Has a loosing lawyer ever told the jury, "you didn't 'get' it so you found my client guilty...". You need evidence and proof.

Likewise, if you you're a comedian and you tell a joke that people don't 'get', you're not a comedian. Guess what, the same holds true for broadcasting. There should be nothing to "get".

As it stands right now, JACK is not revolutionary. It's a format change that has gained traction in some markets and none in others. We know from experience that successful format changes can usually be traced to: 1.) the marketing effort put forth and 2.) how the other stations in the market are serving the desired demo (ie NYC and Chicago have some great stations which need to be dealt with - L.A. not so much).

Let's sit back and wait for some andetotal evidence - not Arbitron - to roll in that states JACK is connecting (selling out concerts, raising a bunch of money for charity, greatly increasing market cume, greatly increasing sales etc.) before making an entry into "The History of Radio" book.

And until that day comes, I see it only as radio done on the cheap by the same people whom overpaid $10 billion for some sticks and now need to try to prove to their stockholders that they're actually alot smarter than that.
 
Re: JACK FM?

> I'm with you on the "bitter old radio guy".
>
> Of course, now "you suck" just like me .

Don't worry. I suck also. If musicloverII doesn't agree with you, you simply suck.
>
> > Cat,
> >
> > Our fellow poster, "musicloverII", doesn't give out any
> > information on himself so I guess we have to assume that
> he
> > is a bitter old radio guy who made his living babysitting
> > other people's formats in various markets. He seems to
> > dislike change (and very likely) other people.
> >
> > Instead of a civil discussion of the format, his posts are
>
> > mostly "you suck, I rule".
> >
> > CJ
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
This site has been updated! Check it out! Thanks
</P>
 
Re: JACK FM?

> Awe, how cute. Another corporate geek to add to your train.

Putting down others is your only way of feeling powerful. Real sad.
>
><P ID="signature">______________
The Place for the Latest Happenings in Radio
www.freewebs.com/radiostuffandnews
This site has been updated! Check it out! Thanks
</P>
 
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