Why work in radio anymore?

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

What a rip-roaring conversation.  Somehow my warped mind sees this anecdote from yesterday fitting here somewhere.  It's Sunday afternoon. We're zipping down the four-lane known to some in North Georgia as the Alpharetta Autobahn.  And I mumbled "That's gonna cost somebody big!" to which my wife says....  "huh?" 

You see that truck?  Read the name on it.  That means someone had septic tank failure and had to call that guy out at Sunday rates!

Then she asked me the question I ponder every time I drive over the hills and through the woods from grandma's house to town:  "How does someone end up with THAT JOB?  Why would anybody go into that business?"  (On the way to town I drive past "Banks Tanks"... a rather pleasant looking business site.) Which led to an interesting discussion as we dodged traffic into the big city.

If they can find people who are willing to walk away from sports on the TV on a Sunday afternoon to come to your house and "shovel the xxxx"....  I'll wager there will still be people 20 years from today that feel the way I did 50 years ago:  "Wow,  look at the blinking lights.  Listen to all that sound.  LET ME IN!"

 

[firepoint525]

This assumes that radio (as we know it now) will even still be around in a few years.

For radio to still be around, it CAN'T be as we know it now, or as we've known it for the past 50 years. That's kind of the point. The next gen can't just ride on the gravy train. Everyone who could already cashed out.

Then where will this TREMENDOUS opportunity be, as amfmxm puts it, (his caps on "tremendous," not mine) be? Either it's in the boardroom or the executive level, or it's nowhere. And not everyone can make it to the top in any business; just not enough opportunities.

Seems to me that any real opportunity might be at the companies like Clear Channel and others, and not at any individual station. The stations are little more than affiliates of their parent companies.

 

[gr8oldies]

The opportunities will be as independent content producers, not employees of individual stations.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Seems to me that any real opportunity might be at the companies like Clear Channel and others, and not at any individual station. The stations are little more than affiliates of their parent companies.

IF, (that's not a typo. Intentional caps.) IF, radio is indeed as troubled as some picture it, then you are going to have to open up your imagination to a much broader set of possible circumstances. IF, IF radio is as troubled as some say there will be no Clear Channel Surviving.

Out of the ashes may arise a Phoenix, the likes of which we don't know. Let me throw out the most radical, absurd possibility that can leak out of a tortured mind. When radio is smoking and smoldering like the ashes of Atlanta after General Sherman:

What if the FCC in response were to declare: Let's apply some of the model we used for LPFM on radio as a whole. A licensee may only own ONE station. 50% or more of the board members must live within 10 miles of the site of license. Yes, you may be commercial but < take your pick: 20%, 50%, 80% > of all programming must be locally produced.

Do I predict this will happen? No. Will I be surprised if "The New Radio of the 21st Century" has a playing field equally that radical? Absolutely not. If I live long enough.... I will be part of it!!!!

 

[amfmxm]

GRC, you always have a way of making these conversations interesting. Thanks!

Sure, the FCC is likely to change the rules in some fashion along the way. But who knows what they'll come up with? I'm basing my "TREMENDOUS opportunities" observation on the industry's present state.

As I've noted before, I run a half-dozen stations in very small towns out in the woods. Population of these "cities of license" are 2,000... 4,000... 6,000... 8,000. Sales are off a litlle bit (5 percent) from last year, but nobody's ready to slit their wrists. Our eight sales people make between $40,000 and $100,000 a year--we've got two in six figures. the six fulltime on-air folks average around $40,000--which coincidentally is the current national average salary. So nobody's starving to death and some are doing extremely well. $100K goes a long way in a town of 2,000 people.

We're closer to the norm than many on this board seem to think. No, it's not Clear Channel or Cumulus or Cox or Citadel or anything else that starts with a "C"--but look around! Most radio stations in most communities are not owned by the huge companies. The majority--yes, majority--are owned by small companies you've never heard of.

But, no, the opportunities are not limited to the boardroom or the executive level. And, no, the radio industry is not going to wither away and disappear in the next five... or ten... or twenty years.

Too much money involved.

 

[firepoint525]

The opportunities will be as independent content producers, not employees of individual stations.

I'll buy that. But even voiceover work can be a tough nut to crack. But at least you are not considered the "intellectual property" of a station. The PD at one of my former stations actually did not want his spots airing on a competing station! If it had been me, that wouldn't have bothered me at all! I would have been flattered!

 

[TheBigA]

I keep hearing about "warm body" and "four and hit the door" shifts, and "the gravy train". Where in radio Hell do (did?) these exist.

You'd be surprised. Not in Buffalo or upstate NY. That's why I left. There are people even in the non-commercial world who have made 7 figure incomes from broadcasting. I'm not talking suits either. There's a lot of money out there if you look beyond the narrow definitions and the salaries with benefits. It still exists. Those opportunities are out there if you're willing to put your own ass on the line, invest in yourself, and focus on the positive instead of all the negative.

As I've said, once the current generation with their pre-conceived ideas of what radio has to be gets out of the way, fresh blood can look at radio with new eyes, in the same way people did when the radio networks ended in the 40s. That's what it will take. Because as long as people insist that radio has to fit in a certain box, it can't achieve its potential.

 

[elchupacabras]

The state of the industry does scare me. After 25 years, it is the only thing I have ever done. But I see the layoffs, see the furloughs and it frightens me. Years ago you could me a respectable living, but I don't recommend it to anyone looking to get into it and little chance to develop talent anymore. Too much of a risk, unless you opt for a small market like I have, or enjoy getting bandied about by the wild swings of the PPM world, and wish to move every 12 months when the ratings go down.

Unfortunately radio is screwed by what I call the "Wal-Martization" of the world. It started in the late 80's, as the big boxes started moving in all over the place, squeezing out mom and pop businesses. With fewer small businesses to account for the revenue flow at the station, the belt tightening began, and the suits from the corporate level moved in buying up stations in droves, intent upon squeezing the very last drop of blood out of the station, and demanding huge returns on profit.

The station used to be content upon making payroll and putting away a little extra for future repairs, and called it a day. Now, greed and profit (although not necessarily inherently evil) drive what used to hit the transmitter. Content be damned. Local news is a thing of the past. It's now all piped in from some puker 500 miles away.

I love radio, but honestly, radio, tv and even newspaper are in serious trouble. It is a career choice to be considered in the future by only the most cutthroat of the bunch.

And talk about talent? Haven't seen much of it lately. There will never be another Larry Lujack, Stern, Harvey, Imus, Cousin Brucie, Wolfman Jack or Casey Kasem in the future. With no overnights available, no weekends, and no stations to develop a persona, we'll soon be relegated to stations that are nothing more than fancy I-pods. There are exceptions, but very few.

Before you go attacking me, think about. YOU KNOW IT IS TRUE. I still very much believe in radio and still think it has a lot of mileage. But 20 years down the line, if we continue in this pattern, it's a done deal. The filaments will dim and never light up again on what could have become a great industry.

 

[TheBigA]

What if the FCC in response were to declare: Let's apply some of the model we used for LPFM on radio as a whole.

Fine. Name me one successful LPFM station. Other than those that broker religion. I'm saying this as someone who has launched a half dozen LPFMs. They're great for community service like reading newspapers over the air for handicapped or providing non-stop school closing info when bad weather hits. Other than that, they aren't doing a whole lot. They're glorified PA systems, and they tend to cost more than they bring in. The public doesn't want to pay for them, and now we're facing the reality that local governments don't want to pay for them.

So I don't expect anyone, especially the FCC, to apply the LPFM model on radio as a whole. Not if they want to improve it. Because the LPFM model is a failure. And I have no reason to expect the FCC wants to improve radio. Because if they had, they would have taken very different actions over the last 25 years.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I am not going to take issue with what you just posted, BigA. But I am going to suggest an alternate view or two.

First, your assessment of the FCC is likely on target. HOWEVER, Congress now and then hands the FCC and other Federal agencies in unsolicited, sometimes unwelcome surprise. My little exercise in creative thinking was tongue-in-cheek response to those who say radio is crashing-and-burning. Even something less drastic than a full-bore crash-and-burn could result in CONGRESS handing the FCC a hot potato with the instructions: "Make potato salad and serve lunch!" There are some activists in congress who seem fond of some elements of LPFM. I can some of them bartering as the price to get their support on some bill, saying: "Only if you pass our LPFM-On_Steroids Bill".

Second, I'm stupid enough to believe that since commercial radio was still ginning at full bore when LPFM made its debut almost a decade ago, broadcasters with "smarts" ignored it. I was busy at the time trying to figure out if the time had come I could return to broadcasting after getting the youngsters out of nest I didn't even know that LPFM had arrived. If they open up an application window this Fall or next Spring, look for at least a few very interesting players to get into the game this time around.

Third, both Congress and the FCC are smart enough to eventually realize that LPFM as now constituted is not financially viable. Not in time for the next Application Window, but in the not-too-distant future look for a change in the rules on advertising by commercial entities on LPFM. I am likely to put a draft proposal in their hands myself.

My previous message that mentioned possible future licenses that were somewhat LPFM like was vague. What did I mean by that? Rather limited power so that the programming would have to focus on the people virtually within line-of-site of the little short tower. No chains, no groups. Single station enterprises. That would be tempered, however, with some clear guidelines on how these stations could form co-operatives to create "audio blogs" to share with each other and still be considered part of the 'local content' requirements. Do something however to change the methodology of the religious content stations. They need to be connecting to local places of worship and producing local content.

I have combed through the listings of current LPFMs, checked out their websites, listen to many of them who are on-line. I agree with you: LPFM as currently structured and operated is... is... for the most part... IS HORRIBLE!

By like all true radio folks, I am just so sure MINE will do better.

 

[TheBigA]

By like all true radio folks, I am just so sure MINE will do better.

You must love "Gone With The Wind." )

"Tomorrow is another day."

 

[firepoint525]

As I've noted before, I run a half-dozen stations in very small towns out in the woods. Population of these "cities of license" are 2,000... 4,000... 6,000... 8,000. Sales are off a litlle bit (5 percent) from last year, but nobody's ready to slit their wrists. Our eight sales people make between $40,000 and $100,000 a year--we've got two in six figures. the six fulltime on-air folks average around $40,000--which coincidentally is the current national average salary. So nobody's starving to death and some are doing extremely well. $100K goes a long way in a town of 2,000 people.

This reminds me of those infomercials that promise you six, and even seven figures a year working from home. Or similar infomercials that promise dramatic weight loss. The disclaimers are always there in the fine print: "results not typical, your results may vary," etc. In other words, the vast majority of people in radio will NOT achieve this kind of success. It's kinda like buying a lottery ticket. Not everyone can, or will, win. Not begrudging those who have succeeded, just saying that there are not enough opportunities still out there for everyone who still wants to get into radio to be able to achieve this kind of success.

 

[firepoint525]

And talk about talent? Haven't seen much of it lately. There will never be another Larry Lujack, Stern, Harvey, Imus, Cousin Brucie, Wolfman Jack or Casey Kasem in the future. With no overnights available, no weekends, and no stations to develop a persona, we'll soon be relegated to stations that are nothing more than fancy I-pods. There are exceptions, but very few.

Yes, the weekends and overnights are (or at least were) the bullpen from which future talent came. We all had to develop our skills and talents in times of relatively low listenership. With that option gone, up-and-comers must now somehow pole-vault from their local college station, to voice-tracking a whole network of stations!

I could not go back to work for most of my former stations, even if I wanted to. Nearly all of them are voice-tracked, syndicated, or automated now. Several years ago, I was passing through the town where my very first station (a 500-watt AM) is located. They had sold to new owners, and changed management, format, etc., but I still thought I'd pop in and give them a visit. Despite it being about 2:00 on a weekday afternoon, the doors were locked, and no one was there! If no one is there during supposedly "normal business hours," when would someone be there? I could see that they had promotional maps on the countertop inside, but obviously, with the doors locked, I could not get in there to get one! Unlike some other stations where I would later work, this station's studios were only a block or two from the downtown business district, so it would be very obvious to passers-by that no one was home!

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I could not go back to work for most of my former stations, even if I wanted to. Nearly all of them are voice-tracked, syndicated, or automated now. Several years ago, I was passing through the town where my very first station (a 500-watt AM) is located. They had sold to new owners, and changed management, format, etc., but I still thought I'd pop in and give them a visit. Despite it being about 2:00 on a weekday afternoon, the doors were locked, and no one was there!

Geography makes a lot of difference, Firepoint. I know your part of the county. My "home state" is next door and what I am about to say is true there as well as where you are.

I worked radio in seven different states. The work I have done since leaving radio took me to even more states. People all across the country have some disappointments today about radio where they are, but don't assume that radio is as opportunity-starved everywhere as it is where you are.

I've had extended "conversations" with AMFMXM and I don't think you want to take his posting as some kind of bait-and-switch infomercial.

One of the problems in radio as far back as I can remember has been: As a broadcaster short on experience, how do I get connected with the station that offers the opportunity that fits me best. If there were ever good "signals" in the business on how to make that match-up, I didn't get the memo.

 

[firepoint525]

Hi, GRC, I take sort of a middle-ground approach when it comes to broadcasting. I believe that the opportunities of which AMFMXM writes probably take years to acquire. With that in mind, I would tell anyone currently in radio, "don't give up on yourself too soon."

However, I would also advise folks not to stay in the same place for too long. If a couple of years go by without getting raises or promotions, I would certainly explore opportunities elsewhere, whether in radio or in other fields. Life is too short to spin your wheels in one place, so if you aren't getting anywhere, circulate your resume and move on! I am guilty of staying in the same place for too long.

I posted that second paragraph (above) as sort of a disclaimer against the first paragraph, because I have had too many previous employers promise me the moon and stars, only to fail (for whatever reason) to deliver. Almost no one will go from entry level to management in one fell swoop, so there should be some "baby steps" along the way, as you progress from one position to another at your station.

 

[amfmxm]

Thank you for the kind words, GRC. Our extended group--that is, including related companies--owns a hundred or so radio stations in a couple dozen markets coast to coast, all small market stuff. But through my association with the folks who run these babies and other folks I know in similar outfits I can attest that our circumstance is pretty normal. But since we're not in New York or LA or any other big markets, we all kind of operate "under the radar." But just stop for a minute and do the math. There are (I saw the figure quoted just the other day) about 11,000 commercial radio stations in the U.S. and the big conglomerates only own about one-fourth of them. So around 8,000 American radio stations are owned by small companies whose names we never see in print. This is where most of us radio types actually work. And for us, life these last few years has been pretty much like the rest of the nation's economy--not great, but not horrible.

Now, having said all that, let me reiterate that radio--on the air or in sales (the two primary areas for employment)--is a performance business. That means that if you don't perform/produce, you don't get to stick around.

Did any of y'all see the interview on NBC "Dateline" last night (about the Steve McNair murders) with former Tennessee Titan running back Eddie George? At some point Eddie offered the observation that the NFL was an unforgiving business... or a vicious/harsh business--pointing out that it was ALL about performance. RBs & QBs are on top of the world as long as they're racking up the yardage and the wins, but when their performance drops off, they're toast.

Radio is pretty harsh/vicious/unforgiving, too. Some people have the talent, temperament and competitiveness to make a living at it, and for those folks it can be a very good living. But for people who want a predictable, unchallenging job and a modest but steady paycheck, this probably isn't the kind of environment that they're really going to like.

 

[TheBigA]

As a broadcaster short on experience, how do I get connected with the station that offers the opportunity that fits me best. If there were ever good "signals" in the business on how to make that match-up, I didn't get the memo.

I don't think that's a problem unique to broadcasting. But broadcasters tend to be more of the gypsi mindset than teachers, doctors, or lawyers. They're more willing to quit and move than people in other jobs. In my family, I'm the only one who's moved to a half dozen different states. Even the military families stay put for longer periods than radio.

 

[nino]

...I was wondering if working in this business is even still worth it?...Working for the local Wal Mart...it pays better!

(For me) Radio has been, and still is, worth working in...under certain conditions.

I got into radio because it was fun. When it wasn't fun, I didn't work in radio. I didn't get into radio to make money. There was a time where I was on-air part-time, and working different jobs for the money...and I was happy.

I love radio. When broadcasters were replaced with those with no real heart for the business, I learned to hate the ones who had taken over. (As did listeners, and the communities.)

I want broadcasting companies to fail hard and fast, so maybe those who care may be the ones who are left.

 

[John FL]

With the exception of a lot of moving around, radio is not really different from a lot of business. Take a look at job postings. It’s like they all follow the same script – must be able to multi-task, handle stress in a fast-paced environment, be a team player, think outside the box, etc. etc.

There will always be those who discourage others under the umbrella of good advice to follow their dreams. Radio needs people who dream of things that can be. I’ve read lots of great comments here and it’s good to see logical thinking on this board is alive and well. Those who are willing to work hard and who think of radio in a different way are the vital players today and tomorrow.

So many moan and groan about technology creating all this competition to radio. The ones who are making and will make the difference are the ones who aren’t afraid of technology but will embrace it and take advantage of the potentials to create demand.

From where I sit in the cheap seats, there’s a lot of copy-cat radio where unfortunately those who haven’t had an original idea for years just play it way too safe and wind up treating their audience like idiots. They just follow what they think is the way to operate. If enough innovators find their way on the radio, the copy-cats may actually wind up doing something constructive – especially if it helps with revenue.

The right talent - both on the air and behind the scenes – will make all the difference. I suppose I haven’t said anything really new here but it just makes sense and I think that bears repeating. Radio stations are big investments. Money is a big motivator and just maybe good decisions will be made with the right people on board to protect those investments.

 

[firepoint525]

Now, having said all that, let me reiterate that radio--on the air or in sales (the two primary areas for employment)--is a performance business. That means that if you don't perform/produce, you don't get to stick around. 

This industry is (or at least was) full of people who are very good at what they do, but who were cut in "cost-cutting" measures by their own employers.  I've read multiple examples of that here, including one here, just this week, on this thread!

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=151855.10

(Scroll all the way to the bottom of page 2)

In other words, it IS possible to be "too good for your own good."  No good deed goes unpunished.