wibc 93.1 sound

[ChiefEngineer]

Harsh audio. Technical refinement. Personal relationship. Rush sounds like a pushy old man on FM. For all the planning this su stinks.

Mr. Perfection, I mean, ChefEngineer God, they've been on the air for less than 48hours - a major changeover like this COULD take a couple of days. We all know they should have hired YOU to fix this problem. That little Emmis outfit may not be as intelligently inclined as you, but give them some time and they just may figure it out to YOUR satisfaction.

It's one thing to point it out, YESTERDAY, but you keep ON it. We haven't even HEARD the real Rush on the FM yet, only a fill-in.


Uh, again, less than 2 days - we know you would have had it fixed before the station even flipped the switch, but you'll have to allow for the rest of the world, and your peers, to catch up to your higher intelligence.

At least this answers the question that you're NOT Russ Oasis.

Ho Ho , Ho

And now I'm Don Imus.

When you drive a truck sometimes you don't always listen to teh whole conversation but I will try. I am an Emmis Fan.

The whole idea noted is to light up FM for young people to experience talk. Not that we haven't seen the disaster draw Cumulus management (former) into a black hole for trying.

I am not saying the technical facilities are deficient or there is a technical problem. This is radio, the friend that you take with you. What we hear isn't friendly and I don't know it can be fixed.

We all speculated on the new station. I like being able to hear the programming from 12 miles away in mono or stereo on ANY radio in the house.

I didn't anticipate how anything that is on the station would sound in a medium where fidelity would detract from the product. Like the changes to Uncle Walter's audio years ago. Because I didn't expect what I heard on the radio.

It's like the first time I saw the incredible sports babe. She wasn't incredible or a babe. Or when your favorite book was made into a movie.

The Coke we had with our happy meal has been replaced with Wal Mart Diet Cola. Doesn't destroy the experience but it makes a change tough to handle.

I have listened to lots of FM talk and haven't had the reaction many are now having because...I haven't EVER listened to Rush on FM. His host sounded harsh. Was it Glen Beck?

I enjoyed the Pat Buchannan chat and all but noted the sound wasn't isn't friendly and this is the whole problem with FM in general.

In early years of working at a simulcast station I always listened on the AM. I can't stand how FM sounds in a talk environment except for the national NPR feed. I note I haven't ever heard Rush on NPR. So his voice there might not transfer.

Ever listen to O'Reilly on Radio? It isn't the same as O'Reilly on television and not the same O'Reilly I first listened to on television.

This isn't something you could even have anticipated really. One might hope there would be some way to fix it.

With FM processing being a totallly different mindset from AM I'm not sure how one would go about making it sound the same without degrading the fidelity.

I commend Jeff on his accomplishments and all the discussion about the sound from AM to FM certainly won't keep anyone awake at night.

 

[radio lover]

Sorry that I'm not able to hear WIBC anymore do to the fm switch, so that said, did the Chuck Riley ID's go out behind Paul Harvey?

 

[look4mission]

Thanks radioho... CheifEngineer... your stations sound perfect? not
hardly...the last time I checked.

 

[mobilene]

FWIW, I used to occasionally catch Rush on WLS-FM when it was still simulcasting the AM years ago, and my admittedly less-refined ears thought Rush sounded reasonably good. I remember it being a little bassy and a little blunted on the highs, I guess to avoid raspiness.

 

[radioho]

At least this answers the question that you're NOT Russ Oasis.

No. I was going to let it go where people thought the HO was Russ, but come on, would anyone really think he could be that creative? Please.

The whole idea noted is to light up FM for young people to experience talk. Not that we haven't seen the disaster draw Cumulus management (former) into a black hole for trying.

I think Emmis understands they are not going to pull in the X103 crowd tomorrow simply because they are on FM now. But not many of us thought WE would listen to Talk radio when we were young either. It takes time, but it's there on the FM, and it does make it easier to get to the younger crowd (by accident) who eventually will 'grow up' and start caring about politics, etc.

It's like the first time I saw the incredible sports babe. She wasn't incredible or a babe. Or when your favorite book was made into a movie.

Very true, but she WAS entertaining.

I have listened to lots of FM talk and haven't had the reaction many are now having because...I haven't EVER listened to Rush on FM. His host sounded harsh. .... So his voice there might not transfer.

Have you heard Rush on the internet when IBC had it on the AM? His voice sounds 'gruff' there as well. But hey, he's NOT going to sound the same forever. As he gets older, his voice will start to go south due to the years of stress and use.

But curious to know from those of you who are complaining about the FM sound, have you heard Rush on the net, and what is your comparison there?

This isn't something you could even have anticipated really. One might hope there would be some way to fix it.

You say you're an 'emmis fan' - have you ever known them to have a problem and NOT fix it? Give it more than 48 hours.

I commend Jeff on his accomplishments and all the discussion about the sound from AM to FM certainly won't keep anyone awake at night.

I disagree - for what it worth - I bet there is a 'crew' of engineers on the Emmis payroll that are getting little sleep trying to figure this out. If they are worth their salt, they won't rest until they accomplish this.

And if they don't - I'll be recommending you Chief! Everyone listens to the 'ho!

 

[radio lover]

I got the chance to hear WIBC on FM for the first time while making a trip to Greencastle today and I thought it sounded reasonable well. Sorry that the Riley ID is gone but since it's no longer "Radio Indiana" and more "Radio Indy" I can understand why to some extent. Talk radio needs a little something in the background. How about a hint of some reverb or is that too 80's?

 

[speakerman]

Since all of the arm chair quarterbacks are calling the game plays I will go on record to say that WIBC sounds good to me now. They are a B and thus don't need to over-process. Their signal easily saturates the IF limiter across their coverage area. They could probably also run 50usec pre-emphasis with their format.

The mic processing sounds better now also. I like Marvin Ceasar's mic processor like the 1788A. Aphex equipment sounds really good to my ears.

I like to hear a little reverb with a talk format...like WTAM Cleavland but not so noticable. Just a faint amount from a Lexicon would work. The purests don't like this however it is barely noticeable at the the right side chain mix. Since they have never had it before they would probably be afraid to mix it in. With side chain, you can slowly add it over time. I used to do this with office sound masking systems over a week period of time so the change was so gradual the occupants did not notice the acoustic change of the space. It is analogous to heating the frog slowly in the pot rather then throwing it into boiling water (no frogs injured in the writing of this comment).

Network audio is what you get. You can always set up a separate chain. A lot of the network feeds on various radio stations I tune into seem to suffer from sibalance distortion for whatever reason. AM bandwidth eliminates this and it must be dealt with separately with the added frequency response of FM. There are plently of great analog boxes one would find in a first class recording studio that can work wonders.

Finally...you no longer have to put up with QRM and the nighttime pattern null across Hamilton County.

 

[ginkgotree]

Listening this afternoon to Dave... when he went to the newsroom or traffic
I had to turn the radio down... the difference in the levels from very low and
soft - barely could hear them to ... traffic and news too loud almost clipped.
Yep...some tweaking needed...and they'll get it. Dave Hood and Jeff know
what they are doing... much better presentation compared to when WWFT
came on for the first day...now that was a disaster. I do miss Dave Ramsey...
he was the best thing WWFT had on their lineup.

 

[justalurker]

Ho, you're so busy bashing Bob for is comments about the initial processing that you missed the post where Bob noted that the station has now improved the audio. I guess that positive post from Bob didn't fit into your bash so you chose to ignore it?

Perhaps die hard dittoheads would listen to Rush at any audio quality (even the brightest FM sound can't improve the content quality of the show) but you're not going to attract new listeners by annoying them with the audio quality. It sounds like they are still having issues - which is a shame when they can do better. Especially a shame when it is something as simple as making sure the audio levels from all sources are in the same ballpark.

How many hours do you believe it should take for WIBC to fix their problems? 168? 3000? Unless they are waiting for equipment to arrive there isn't an excuse for getting to the root of the problem. The "team of engineers" doing the changeover have a little more to do. Turn down the hot feeds at the mixer and adjust the darn AGC ... please!

Adding effects (such as intentional AM noise sounds or reverb or whatever) can come if the powers that are want to add a little more character to the station. That takes more time to get right. But the basics? Get-R-Done!

 

[skippertthomas]

Just my '2 cents' worth... 80 percent of a cake is the 'cake' and how its blended and put together with the Betty Crocker instructions.. That's the format and rotation or program and news/sportcast schedule... The other 20 percent deal with self promotion and client promotions (10% there)... And the icing on the 'cake' makes it stand out different than the other 'cake with bad icing'... That 10 percent of quality WILL garner you an edge.. Maybe not a major edge, but time after time, in my 30 years of doing things in this biz, the ones who took the 'little things' (Studio Tidiness?, Dress Code, Off Air Duties, Air Chain, etc.), WINS almost every time! Every new outlet of format that won, had just slightly better or much better processing over the ol' format leader in the market.... Listeners may not put a finger on it, but it plays on the mind... If it don't, then we can all broadcast every format over standard phone lines and to heck with quality... Of course, with IBOC on AM at night, and the suggestion to go 5k bandwidth, we're getting there...

 

[hipporadio]

The comment it sounds like the high school stations is the best description yet...

NPR has the friendly sound on FM that WIBC needs...

BINGO! I’m visiting family for the holidays about midstream between Indy and Cincy... Listening on my new Sangean WR-2 table radio I received for Christmas [the wood-cased white-lacquer version] with an 8-watt amp/premium ported speaker; better-than-the-average-bear-FM; and W-A-Y b.t.t.a.b. AM reception and audio quality [I can clearly hear s-sibilance, cymbals, and “high-hats” on “SuperOldies” WIFE with NO grunge whatsoever!!!]. The “Chief” is most-observant in regards to the “warm ‘n cozy” audio on NPR stations... Switching from NPR/Jazz 88.5 WMUB [news/talk in the morning] to 93.1 reveals how perfect ChiefEngineer’s analogy is. WHY is it, that I have noticed very-little “audio excellence” when listening to a commercial Talk reincarnation on FM? I realize that NPR stations seem blessed with “all the toys” [at taxpayer generosity], but can’t we expect audio from a corporate N/T FM station that surpasses that provided by the likes of WJEL or WBDG?

 

[hipporadio]

And I just thought of another practical analogy... The *new* 93.1 WIBC [no "-FM" tolerated] sounds like a CHR station-minus-Britney Spears with 20-minutes of commercials maintained. ATTENTION Monument Circle: The juvenile “Radio NOW—93.1” is HISTORY [thank-God!], so find a new preset on that yet-to-be-fully-depreciated Omnia XRV-4480-99a-Turbo-Thumper-PLUS mash-master digital box, and give “adults” a break! I’ve seen the impressive digs on the ground-floor of the Emmis Palace... There is NO EXCUSE for this! ...It’s ONLY “the spoken word” for goodness sake! ‘Maybe head to the basement, and drag-out an old 8100 and a well-trained Compellor and go from there!

 

[ten_four]

...drag-out an old 8100 and a well-trained Compellor and go from there!

That was going to be my question. Are the NPRs using Analog processors?
I have yet to hear a really good sound from any station that I know is using digital processing.

 

[hipporadio]

I’d like to shake your hand ten_four! A perfect point! In fairness, the “culprit” may-not be processing in the digital domain [although I prefer the analog predecessors]... Rather, the problem is likely THE ABUSE of the alleged DIGITAL CAPABILITIES. I suspect that BobOnTheJob’s WIFE AM employs a DIGITAL proc, and does-so judiciously and with the “goal” firmly in view... The results are OUTSTANDING, but are piloted by one very-familiar with many eras of “boutique” processing alternatives—not-to-mention—a “good ear”. RESPECT is due these technicians who can be counted-upon TO DELIVER! I don’t generally favor the digital mode, but experienced aficionados of QUALITY audio generally know-how to tame and direct those “beasts”... WIBC on 93.1 needs one now!

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I suspect that BobOnTheJob’s WIFE AM employs a DIGITAL proc, and does-so judiciously and with the “goal” firmly in view... The results are OUTSTANDING,

Correct...it's an Omnia 5EX HD+AM...Omnia's crown jewel of AM processors....and I am ongoingly thankful that Rodgers Broadcasting gave me this wonderful tool to make WIFE AM "the little engine that could".

 

[hipporadio]

And a good job you did with that “beast” also, Bob... I doubt that you “settled” for a supplied preset! THANKS for not invoking the “HD” component in that box—likely designed to stranglehold aural response to a 4.5kHz maximum. I only wish the CEs at 700, 840, and 1070 could hear how pathetic their audio sounds on an ANALOG Sangean receiver available for under $150 at Amazon because of their hopeless wiz-in-the-wind decision to invoke IBOC “HD” on AM... The difference is STRIKINGLY-apparent when one compares the signal delivered from that demure “engine that could” on 1580 AM in Connersville!

 

[BobOnTheJob]

And a good job you did with that “beast” also, Bob... I doubt that you “settled” for a supplied preset! THANKS for not invoking the “HD” component in that box—likely designed to stranglehold aural response to a 4.5kHz maximum. I only wish the CEs at 700, 840, and 1070 could hear how pathetic their audio sounds on an ANALOG Sangean receiver available for under $150 at Amazon because of their hopeless wiz-in-the-wind decision to invoke IBOC “HD” on AM... The difference is STRIKINGLY-apparent when one compares the signal delivered from that demure “engine that could” on 1580 AM in Connersville!

Correct again Hippo...no preset came anywhere near to what I was trying to accomplish...but the device has amazing amounts of horsepower for those who wish to engage it. It has numerous low pass filter settings...and you can rest assurred that every one I get my hands on (3 and counting) is set to 10khz...

 

[speakerman]

Todays sampling of their sound while I was out driving shows it to now be clipped quite a bit on the mics (one step backward). The studio mics sound clipped with a "cardboard" kind of sound. Garrison's voice is probably difficult to deal with however the correct mic chain can tame most anything.

The general eq sounds better as is softens the sound from source to source. The high-end rolloff is good with talk.

Analog is still less stressful on these ears. I always liked the Compellor/Dominator/8100 combo for the main air chain. The digital boxes are probably capable of sounding ok however they give you enough rope to hang yourself. There are also strange things that happen when you convert from one digital standard to another. Analog is the great go-between digital format interface.

Remember the hideous SID and TIM distortion people refused to accept years ago that made the early op-amp based equipment sound bad? The ears should still be the final piece of test equipment.

 

[radiorob2.0]

Harsh audio. Technical refinement. Personal relationship.

Rush sounds like a pushy old man on FM. For all the planning this su stinks.

The friendly sound that we were used to as it came from AM now sounds like a caricature of Rush. It would be funny if it weren't so bad.

This isn't something the techs can fix unless they make FM sound like AM. Roll off the high end?. Add some power line noise?

The comment it sounds like the high school stations is the best description yet.

You can add all the liners into and out of the programs you want. (Saw a newscast where Emmis is explaining things they can do since it's on FM. Gain listeners won't be one.). These music trailers aren't going to fix what they broke.

New younger listeners are not going to listen to Rush if someone who likes him (closing on 50) like me thinks he sounds not like the friend I'm used to but a pushy old man. The former listeners hate the sound en mass. What audience will be left?

NPR has the friendly sound on FM that WIBC needs. Someone should discover how they do it from the network. (NPR-Their processing leaves much to be desired though.) The local audio still sounds like a high school station on NPR affiliates. Click and Clack, All Things Considered. This is what needs to happen to the audio. Make it sound unique and NOT like the local high school stations.

This small but deficient area is the same reason tv stations spend so much on lighting and sets. The same equipment can look film like and clear or harsh and nasty. The reason MASH used film mastering and not video mastering years ago. Watch reruns of MASH and reruns of different strokes to see the difference.

NPR audio standards are very high and lead the way in technology. They also understand the destructive effect of bit rate reduction. It's rare to hear an FM commercial talk station sound as good or better than a NPR affiliate.

Processing does matter. This guy explains it better than me. http://www.jimloupas.com/

Indy is actually a good sounding (processing) radio market. Many of the stations have a big sound with smashing the daylight out of it. If you want that sound make your way to Evansville. There are many stations that easily achieve a painful sound with equipment that can sound a thousand time better.

 

[skippertthomas]

Bob.. You're right.. Loupas is a legend.. He consulted 1280/WGBF in '76-'77 and wow! His DAP settings on WCFL stood out over WLS in the waining TOP-40 days at Super'CFL.. We could even here the quality difference from southern Indiana, at night... Bob...How you think WIKY sounds??? Chris is really trying to find the sweet spot.... ;D