Will any more radio markets migrate talk to FM?

[tothedj]

I have noticed lately that many markets are either simulcasting talk on FM, or switching to this format, how many more stations, especially in larger cities, are making plans to do this or will down the road?, in many places, it's
working well, depending on the strength of their signals, in others, i'm sure decisions will be made, AM as we
know it is losing listeners, would you rather listen to AM or FM radio?

 

[gr8oldies]

Doesn't matter which band I want to listen to. The audience is on FM.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

WSB may not be the most significant AM to make this switch, but as a "bellweather" it ranks way up there. A lot of people nursing along lame AMs which are barely making it or not losing enough money to cause the owner to jump overboard are going to look at this and ask themselves: "Now what!"

I think a lot of people are just sure that (as they say in the computer world) a "new killer application" will come along any day now and save my bacon. A lot of owners who have visions of someone coming along and making an offer to make them whole again is not going to happen.

It is looking more and more like we can either abandon the AM band, or re-price and reallocate the frequencies to uses and markets that make more sense. (Whatever "make more sense" is.)

We faced that kind of problem in the world of farming 50-60 years ago. The government came up with programs that allowed people with a non-productive farm strapped to their back to either go find another way to make a living or the change their farming methods. (Real farmers will disagree with my choice of words there, but it does paint the picture.)

 

[Talk_Dude]

It would seem that owners of AM talk stations have two choices. Move their talk progamming to FM, or wait until a competitor comes along and starts an FM talk station in their market and eats their lunch.

Either way, AM radio has about as much long term future ahead of it as analog TV had back in 2000.

And to those who accurately observe that AM has been around since day 1 in broadcasting, so was analog TV on the VHF band.

 

[scanman1809]

With AM radio dying and all of the talk moving to FM, What do you think will happen to the Salem conservative talkers. Clear Channel, Cox and others are migrating their talk stations to FM. However, Salem has yet to do such a thing. Will Salem's brand of talk last or simply become a defunct entity?

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Regular OMW readers know we have the "FM Talk Watch", or more accurately, the "FM News/Talk/Sports Watch"...where those traditional AM-style formats migrate to the FM band.

To answer the thread question: Many, and often.

It, right now, takes a certain component to mount a traditional NTS station on FM. One of the biggest components is a lack of success on an FM frequency with a succession of music formats.

The other is a company committed to spoken word FM formats, and Cox certainly fits that...with existing FM news/talk simulcasts in Jacksonville, Dayton, etc.

In Atlanta, the problem wasn't AM signal issues with booming 50KW WSB/750, so we'll have to see if the demographics on 95.5 are much more favorable.

One reason Clear Channel doesn't do FM talk in more places is because they have established 50KW powerhouses on AM doing well (WTAM here, WLW in Cincy, etc.).

If Cox squeezes better demos off 95.5, I wonder if CC will eventually mount talk on FM here...maybe on classic hits WMJI/105.7 whenever John Lanigan retires. It'd pretty much have to be a WTAM simulcast, and listeners to the frequency are already listening to adult-targeted talk radio with "Lanigan and Malone". (Younger skewing "FM talk" is heard on sister rock/talk WMMS/100.7 in both drive times.)

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

With AM radio dying and all of the talk moving to FM, What do you think will happen to the Salem conservative talkers. Clear Channel, Cox and others are migrating their talk stations to FM. However, Salem has yet to do such a thing. Will Salem's brand of talk last or simply become a defunct entity?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Salem try an FM conservative talker, but they may wish to reserve the band for "Fish" outlets.

What they could do, like in Dallas, Pittsburgh, etc. is move the Christian talk/teaching station to FM. If they did that, they could move conservative talk in this market to 50kW 1220 (from 5kW 1420).

I see no signs, though, that they are not committed to the Fish here (95.5), or that they're able to acquire a mythical second FM in Northeast Ohio.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Salem did launch an FM conservatalker in Honolulu some time ago, but that was probably more out of a realignment with their cluster (I believe it's back on the AM dial now).

Typically, they've always been more concerned about ideology than ratings with their conservatalkers. Few of them have any local programming to speak of, and usually farm out their 'local' newscasts to outside parties.

 

[gr8oldies]

Fish does too well, in that all important soccer mom demographic, for Salem to blow it up.

 

[ajc_trw]

It would seem that owners of AM talk stations have two choices. Move their talk programming to FM, or wait until a competitor comes along and starts an FM talk station in their market and eats their lunch.

Either way, AM radio has about as much long term future ahead of it as analog TV had back in 2000.

And to those who accurately observe that AM has been around since day 1 in broadcasting, so was analog TV on the VHF band.

But AM is limited in bandwidth because of interference issues. Once AM stations start shutting down you may get the few that remain increasing their bandwidth to 20kHz. When this happens all AM radios IIRC will still play these stations as before. And many newer wideband AM radios (the ones that top out at 1700kHz) may be the first to hear the new AM sound.

I may be wrong and this is as always IMHO so YMMV.

 

[semoochie]

Salem ran their standard talk lineup on FM in Portland. Results were nearly nonexistent. They LMA'd an AM for a simulcast and didn't do much better. They switched the FM to Spanish programming and promptly wiped out the entire Spanish AM audience with a Class C3, even topping the market once!

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

But AM is limited in bandwidth because of interference issues. Once AM stations start shutting down you may get the few that remain increasing their bandwidth to 20kHz. When this happens all AM radios IIRC will still play these stations as before. And many newer wideband AM radios (the ones that top out at 1700kHz) may be the first to hear the new AM sound.

The current business conditions and current regulatory climate do not provide a fertile seedbed for the scenario you propose, but the current conditions also seem destined to drive A.M. radio into extinction.

You may want to bone-up on your technical skills. Maybe you DO understand what is happening, but the way you expressed it words left me wondering. Just because a receiver will receive the A.M. channels all the way up to 1700 kHz does not make it wide-band.

Because the regulator climate has forced stations to quit broadcasting wide-band audio (which they once did), the manufacturers decided not to waste money manufacturing receivers which could not improve a cripple audio signal from the transmitter. About 10 years ago, after being away from broadcasting for awhile, I decided to get back into the swim. The first thing I wanted was a good, wide-band receiver. After 18 months of searching I realized that my only choice was to go to one of these little boutiqe-shops where they sell classic pre-owned audiophile gear and buy something 30 to 50 years old.

I have no confidence that wide-band A.M. is a viable business proposition. If they want to turn the A.M. band into something a little more granola than what is proposed for LPFM, it might make a great enthusiast band.

 

[gr8oldies]

The GE Superradios have wideband settings. In the pre-IBOC days, my Superradio III could make WLW sound great! Little tougher to do with stations at the high end of the dial.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Wideband, higher end AM bandwidth and better receivers, more room for stations...it makes no difference. Aside from niche formats in some circumstances and markets ("real" oldies, standards, classic country), AM is dead for music. It's even dying in many of those older skewing markets, though Youngstown has two "standards" (mostly soft AC these days) AM stations because it's just such an older markets. Oh, it also has classic country.

Salem is first and foremost concerned with its talk/teaching stations, which make it the most money. If a Fish station isn't working on FM, expect them to move the talk/teaching station to FM. But in one market where Fish wasn't working, Milwaukee, Salem just sold out of the market.

 

[travisl5678]

In Sacramento Salem had many FM's that came and went through there ownership, they tried puting there Talk AM on FM twice, and both times the stations went Spanish.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I forgot about KTKZ's FM move, and they made a BIG deal about it at the time.

Of course, the first FM was 105.5, which was - at least at the time - the very worst rimshot trying to serve Sacramento.

I see it's still licensed to Dunnigan, and puts nothing remotely resembling a city grade signal over any part of Sacramento County.

 

[radioguy39nj]

It would seem that owners of AM talk stations have two choices. Move their talk progamming to FM, or wait until a competitor comes along and starts an FM talk station in their market and eats their lunch.

The top 3 markets of NY, LA and Chicago have not yet had an AM talk station move to FM, or had a competitor come in and start one on FM. The 50 kW AMs in those markets reach out far and wide from their COLs. Will that prevent talk from ever migrating to FM in the top 3 markets?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

It would seem that owners of AM talk stations have two choices. Move their talk progamming to FM, or wait until a competitor comes along and starts an FM talk station in their market and eats their lunch.

The top 3 markets of NY, LA and Chicago have not yet had an AM talk station move to FM, or had a competitor come in and start one on FM. The 50 kW AMs in those markets reach out far and wide from their COLs. Will that prevent talk from ever migrating to FM in the top 3 markets?

Before WSB in Atlanta took an FM and put their News/Talk AM content on there, they had TWO viable frequencies with excellent market value if they chose to sell either one. The day they duplicated the AM content over to FM, they in essence turned one of those two properties into a tail being wagged by the big dog.

Only time will tell who is the dog, and who is the tail.

Since a 50kW AM in a top three market is probably worth considerably more than an AM in Atlanta, you can quickly see where the owners are not eager to take their very, very valuable stations and gamble with changes, maybe turn them into something no more significant that a tail that wags.

AMs in the top three markets may have something going for them. These three markets are the location of the heavy-duty agencies that direct a lot of ad dollars. These big-time AM stations likely have some fans among the buyers in these agencies and they can let their emotions tell them that in spite of what we read in the trades, THESE stations are still viable.

If you own a 50kW in Oklahoma City or Montana or South Carolina, you may have trouble finding a buyer in an agency in the big three markets that even knows where your state is, much less be able to convince them you have an AM that has exceptional value, in spite of what the trends are telling the buyer.

If you own an AM station in any other size market, don't bet the family farm on "since the AMs are surviving in NYC, LA and Chicago, I can also.

 

[Talk_Dude]

It would seem that owners of AM talk stations have two choices. Move their talk progamming to FM, or wait until a competitor comes along and starts an FM talk station in their market and eats their lunch.

The top 3 markets of NY, LA and Chicago have not yet had an AM talk station move to FM, or had a competitor come in and start one on FM. The 50 kW AMs in those markets reach out far and wide from their COLs. Will that prevent talk from ever migrating to FM in the top 3 markets?

Before WSB in Atlanta took an FM and put their News/Talk AM content on there, they had TWO viable frequencies with excellent market value if they chose to sell either one. The day they duplicated the AM content over to FM, they in essence turned one of those two properties into a tail being wagged by the big dog.

Only time will tell who is the dog, and who is the tail.

Speaking only for myself, as a universe of one, I never, ever listened to WSB AM. I do not ever turn my car radio to AM, ever. It sounds like crap. I never, ever tune my home stereo to AM, ever. It sounds like crap. My portable MP3 player has an FM radio built in, it doesn't have an AM. If it did, my guess is that it would sound like crap. When I worked in an office, listening to AM was impossible because of the steel framing of the building.

Maybe I'm unique, and not typical of most 2010 listeners. Maybe lots of people don't mind listening to crappy sounding AM radio. Or, maybe there are large numbers of people out there willing to shell out big bucks for special AM radios that don't sound like crap.

When I lived in Pittsburgh, I didn't listen to KDKA-AM or WPTT-AM very much, because they usually sounded like crap. When Clear Channel started carrying news/talk on 104.7, I started listening to news/talk a lot more.

My personal opinion is that there are a lot of people, probably a majority of those under the age of 50, who won't listen to AM radio at all. AM radio is to radio what UHF TV with a set-top bow-tie antenna was to television. It's something you only tune in as a last resort if there are no other alternatives.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I fully understand your "universe of one" observation.

But I, too, am a universe of one.

I remember venturing east into the "Delta County" of Arkansas and wandering into a little A.M. station in Pine Bluff and meeting the two owners who probably should have been out selling. They had been up all night. And they were so proud of themselves. They had spent years tracking down every available tweak to make their little "high on the dial" A.M. teapot sound better and better. Their signal to noise ratio was already unbelievably low. They stayed up all night, unbolted the power supply (rather massive) from the cabinet of the A.M. transmitter, slipped some kind of foam rubber padding under it, and improved the signal-to-noise ratio by 2 db.

So they took it from -56 to -58 maybe? Even then, who would know?

Even in the 1950s you could travel the country and scan the (AM) dial and it quickly became obvious who the "stay up all night guys" were and who the the "it's warm and glowing, who gives a damn" guys were.

You're right. In today's noise-filled-spectrum FM tends to fare better than AM. He is my universe-of-one observation. Back in the day, you had a probability that one out of three AM stations would sound really great. Today, when you combine the engineering and the programming, I find maybe ONE FM station out of EIGHTEEN that sounds great. The rest sound like CRAP.

So, in the style of the Elders of the Breed, I moan and wail that in spite of all the possibilities, maybe we have gone backward. One in three was a better game than one in eighteen.