Will any more radio markets migrate talk to FM?

[Talk_Dude]

You're right. In today's noise-filled-spectrum FM tends to fare better than AM. He is my universe-of-one observation. Back in the day, you had a probability that one out of three AM stations would sound really great. Today, when you combine the engineering and the programming, I find maybe ONE FM station out of EIGHTEEN that sounds great. The rest sound like CRAP.

So, in the style of the Elders of the Breed, I moan and wail that in spite of all the possibilities, maybe we have gone backward. One in three was a better game than one in eighteen.

I'll agree with your assessment that one out of eighteen AM stations are broadcasting signals that have technical sound quality that isn't crap. I cannot agree with your assessment that one out of eighteen has program content worth listening to. I'd say that's more like one out of 9 AM stations. That's based on reading AM station lists with descriptions of their programming content. So, if one out of 9 AM stations has content worth tuning in to hear, and of those, only one out of 18 has technical quality that isn't crap, that's one out of 9 x 18, or one out of every 162 AM stations is worth tuning in to.

But, there's no easy way to find that one station out of 162, especially if there are only 50 stations on the dial you can even pick up. With those odds, it isn't worth bothering to turn the tuning knob to try to find such a needle in a haystack.

 

[gr8oldies]

Chicago has had FM talk at various times. WLS simulcast on FM for a time in the 90s then spun off a younger skewing talker as "WLS FM Talks" (still simulcasting Rush and weekends). They blew that up to do all OJ all the time, went back to the simulcast, then Christmas, then Country.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

You're right. In today's noise-filled-spectrum FM tends to fare better than AM. He is my universe-of-one observation. Back in the day, you had a probability that one out of three AM stations would sound really great. Today, when you combine the engineering and the programming, I find maybe ONE FM station out of EIGHTEEN that sounds great. The rest sound like CRAP.

So, in the style of the Elders of the Breed, I moan and wail that in spite of all the possibilities, maybe we have gone backward. One in three was a better game than one in eighteen.

I'll agree with your assessment that one out of eighteen AM stations are broadcasting signals that have technical sound quality that isn't crap. I cannot agree with your assessment that one out of eighteen has program content worth listening to. I'd say that's more like one out of 9 AM stations.

Not to quibble, but you either misread or misinterpreted what I wrote. :

I said one of eighteen stations (no distinction between AM and FM) has content and quality worth listening to. Granted, that is a number picked out of the air, not one that resulted from precise scientific study.

I give FM no "clean bill of good health" in this observation about the listenability of radio.

I also stipulate right up front that my ears have more miles and model years on them which causes me to black-ball some stations which a younger crowd might find more acceptable. But Rogaine, Viagra and steroids cannot lift a lot of what we stumble into on the airwaves out of the "Who listens to this kind of crap?" status.

 

[Talk_Dude]

You're right. In today's noise-filled-spectrum FM tends to fare better than AM. He is my universe-of-one observation. Back in the day, you had a probability that one out of three AM stations would sound really great. Today, when you combine the engineering and the programming, I find maybe ONE FM station out of EIGHTEEN that sounds great. The rest sound like CRAP.

So, in the style of the Elders of the Breed, I moan and wail that in spite of all the possibilities, maybe we have gone backward. One in three was a better game than one in eighteen.

I'll agree with your assessment that one out of eighteen AM stations are broadcasting signals that have technical sound quality that isn't crap. I cannot agree with your assessment that one out of eighteen has program content worth listening to. I'd say that's more like one out of 9 AM stations.

Not to quibble, but you either misread or misinterpreted what I wrote. :

I said one of eighteen stations (no distinction between AM and FM) has content and quality worth listening to. Granted, that is a number picked out of the air, not one that resulted from precise scientific study.

I give FM no "clean bill of good health" in this observation about the listenability of radio.

I also stipulate right up front that my ears have more miles and model years on them which causes me to black-ball some stations which a younger crowd might find more acceptable. But Rogaine, Viagra and steroids cannot lift a lot of what we stumble into on the airwaves out of the "Who listens to this kind of crap?" status.

I know you said that you found one out of eighteen to have both technical and content quality. I acknowledged that, and disagreed with your numbers.

As for ear quality, I'm a few weeks away from 59, and spent much of the 60's and 70's playing in rock bands. However, I'd like to think I am not that much of an old fogey when it comes to rejecting modern music formats out of hand. I reject most modern songs after having heard them. I find that when I hear deep album cuts from many years ago and new songs recorded recently, I can detect the better quality of the musicianship and songwriting from decades past even if I'm hearing the songs for the first time. I have also found more than a few recently recorded songs that sound every bit as good as the vintage stuff, but they are few and far between, and are almost never played on the radio.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

A big market spoken word success is WTOP/Washington, which is now ONLY on FM (103.5, suburban 103.9 IIRC).

Of course, Washington is a horrid AM market, and has grown out of many of the AM signals. Only WMAL/630 (Citadel's news/talker) is a full market AM station now, and even it's challenged out in the far ex-urbia. WTEM/980 used to be full-market, but got clipped out in Northern Virginia when the population started moving, en mass, out to Manassas and beyond.

WTOP's own AM was a 50 kW giant - 1500 - but only east of DC. It is but a rumor west of DC, which started WTOP's first FM simulcasting effort at 94.3 and later 107.7.

All of that aside, WTOP is by far still the market giant at 103.5 in a top 10 market.

The problem is as stated - many people under a certain age don't even know what AM radio IS. If any of them are finding AM in 2010, it's due to sports. As they age into the prime news/talk demos, those stations are going to have to move to FM.

Then, there's the next problem...the even younger generation, and are they listening to even FM? Or will all this transmitter stuff be silly in about 10 years, with widespread Internet access in cars and "stations" coming online? Will the young people used to today's podcasting and on-demand programming even sit still for linear information "stations", or will they just punch up stuff that's already recorded in bite-sized portions?

If I knew the answer, I would be rich.

 

[KeyTimes950]

Pittsburgh well may be a peculiar market for a comparison of talk moving over to FM.

Yes, Clear Channel has been successful with WPGB, running the local-based, syndicated Quinn and Rose in the morning, then national talk the rest of the day.

Yes, KDKA finally may be fading as a large part of its audience dies off. However ...

(1) CBS tried "man talk" WTZN-93.7 but that lasted just six months. It went back to Top 40 then recently went strictly for sports as KDKA-93.7, a largely local station battling Clear Channel's Fox Sports 970 WBGG and ESPN's WEAE-1250 in a Steeler-mad, Penguin-crazy city.

(2) Salem has hybrid, mixed formats on its Pittsburgh stations. It goes religion part of the day, talk from noon on over WPIT-730, and religion much of the day with a three-hour local talk show in afternoon drive on WORD-101.5. WPIT also has North Hills High School (suburban Pittsburgh) football and Robert Morris University sports.

Salem does not have a "Fish" here but it has been plugging its weekend CCM music on WORD as it counters unusually strong ratings for K-Love.

Educational Media Foundation leases WPKV-98.3 from Keymarket and its overall share has risen from 1.2 to 1.4 to 1.9 in recent months. (No one is over 10 overall in this market and 1.9 is about twice what WORD is getting for Christian ministry and that afternoon talk.)

EMF also runs a second station at FM 98.5 near the Maryland border that has a strong signal in Westmoreland County and south and east of Pittsburgh, as well as translators in some suburbs.

 

[Talk_Dude]

(1) CBS tried "man talk" WTZN-93.7 but that lasted just six months. It went back to Top 40 then recently went strictly for sports as KDKA-93.7, a largely local station battling Clear Channel's Fox Sports 970 WBGG and ESPN's WEAE-1250 in a Steeler-mad, Penguin-crazy city.

Man-talk failed because it was done very, very badly, not because the concept was bad.

 

[carolinaradio]

Clear Channel's Rush Radio 94.5 in Winston Salem and Rush Radio 106.1 in Raleigh have shown growth this year and are hurting their AM competitors.

 

[MedianJ]

Talk Radio guru Walter Sabo has been advocating FM talk for decades, this is nothing new to him.

 

[Holland Cooke]

OK, I'll bite...

RE:

...advocating FM talk for decades

So why now?
Why did a dozen years of “Hot Talk” hype fail to find traction on FM?
Conventional wisdom…and bankers.
If you asked them, they’d tell you that music = FM and Talk = AM.
Now, they just want their money.

Now, market managers, coping with an iffy economy, are squeezing already-squeezed stations, often allocating disproportionate time and resources to propping-up music FMs that sit mid-pack, or worse. When, instead, they could take the slacker FM’s expenses to zero...AND, as in the case of my alma mater WTOP, grow the more-salable pre-existing News/Talk AM station’s share, by either moving to FM as WTOP did, or simulcasting, a la KSL, WBAP, WSB, WPRO, et al.

A well-programmed FM talker sure will have impact.
After all, some 80% of Time Spent Listening is on FM.
Fish where the fish swim, eh?

Note however: “well-programmed;” not simply gathering-up whichever syndicated shows nobody else wanted.

Remember when contemporary music migrated to FM in the 1970s? The stations that won quickest weren’t good FM stations, they were good radio stations. Despite – heck, because-of – the FM advantage, solid strategy and tactics have never been more important.

Five years from now, there might still be music on FM. One year from now there will certainly be more talk on FM, even if radio is still arm-wrestling with record labels. Even just months from now, launching a Talk station will be harder, as syndicated shows get snapped-up.

Man-talk failed because it was done very, very badly

That snickering Beavis & Butthead act flopped on various Hot Talk FMs now in other formats.

Got a problem child music FM?
Think Musical Chairs.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
http://getonthenet.com/worthlessspineless.mp3

 

[KevinFodor]

For what it's worth, generally speaking, I agree with both Sabo and Holland on this one.

FM talk works. In Dayton, WHIO AM/FM went from #5 to #1 in 6 months, lowered its demos and has become very saleable.

But, you're talking a station still with premiere syndicated talent and a commitment to local news...a live, local morning news show with a large cast (no fewer than about a dozen people involved in it in one way or another), and a commitment to local news 24/7.

FM News-talk as a flanker with B-grade syndicated talent and no local news commitment is a loser.
Period.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

What Kevin said.

Low-end talk stations with third-tier or lower syndie products and no local angle are doomed to failure, AM or FM.

 

[Holland Cooke]

Besides, who needs FM to listen to music?

TODAY ONLY: http://www.woot.com/

 

[radioguy39nj]

Re: OK, I'll bite...

RE:

...advocating FM talk for decades

So why now?
Why did a dozen years of “Hot Talk” hype fail to find traction on FM?
Conventional wisdom…and bankers.
If you asked them, they’d tell you that music = FM and Talk = AM.
Now, they just want their money.

Now, market managers, coping with an iffy economy, are squeezing already-squeezed stations, often allocating disproportionate time and resources to propping-up music FMs that sit mid-pack, or worse. When, instead, they could take the slacker FM’s expenses to zero...AND, as in the case of my alma mater WTOP, grow the more-salable pre-existing News/Talk AM station’s share, by either moving to FM as WTOP did, or simulcasting, a la KSL, WBAP, WSB, WPRO, et al.

A well-programmed FM talker sure will have impact.
After all, some 80% of Time Spent Listening is on FM.
Fish where the fish swim, eh?

Note however: “well-programmed;” not simply gathering-up whichever syndicated shows nobody else wanted.

Remember when contemporary music migrated to FM in the 1970s? The stations that won quickest weren’t good FM stations, they were good radio stations. Despite – heck, because-of – the FM advantage, solid strategy and tactics have never been more important.

Five years from now, there might still be music on FM. One year from now there will certainly be more talk on FM, even if radio is still arm-wrestling with record labels. Even just months from now, launching a Talk station will be harder, as syndicated shows get snapped-up.

Man-talk failed because it was done very, very badly

That snickering Beavis & Butthead act flopped on various Hot Talk FMs now in other formats.

Got a problem child music FM?
Think Musical Chairs.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
http://getonthenet.com/worthlessspineless.mp3

FM talk is still non-existent in markets #1 through #3 (NY, LA, Chicago). IMHO, NY talk stations are very poorly programmed. They carry mostly syndicated programming and have very little programming relevant to NY area issues, whereas you find local issues well covered in LA and Chicago.

IMHO, a well-programmed and executed FM talker in NYC would severely impact WABC, WOR and perhaps even WINS.

 

[Holland Cooke]

As Sarah Palin would chirp, "You betcha!"

a well-programmed and executed FM talker in NYC would severely impact WABC, WOR and perhaps even WINS.

YAH-mon!

And this isn't just about radio.
EVERY medium needs to be on-the-platform(s) people are using.

On Wednesday, the publisher of the New York Times stated: "We will stop printing the New York Times sometime in the future, date TBD."

I read the New York Times this morning on my iPhone, including news-newer-than since-the-ink-dried.

If you'll be attending the NAB/RAB Radio Show in Washington end-of-this-month, DON'T MISS the session with visionary Talkers magazine publisher Michael Harrison, 11AM Wed9/29.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

 

[ajc_trw]

Re: Besides, who needs FM to listen to music?

TODAY ONLY: http://www.woot.com/

Is this WOOT-AM or WOOT-FM?

 

[Holland Cooke]

"Is this WOOT-AM or WOOT-FM?"

Neither.
It's "One Deal, One Day."
Bookmark it and you'll get addicted.
It'll be the first site you check in the morning.

And check it before midnight tonight -- or until the item sells-out -- for the-item-pertinent-to "so who needs an FM station for music?"

http://woot.com

 

[radioguy39nj]

Re: As Sarah Palin would chirp, "You betcha!"

a well-programmed and executed FM talker in NYC would severely impact WABC, WOR and perhaps even WINS.

YAH-mon!

And this isn't just about radio.
EVERY medium needs to be on-the-platform(s) people are using.

On Wednesday, the publisher of the New York Times stated: "We will stop printing the New York Times sometime in the future, date TBD."

I read the New York Times this morning on my iPhone, including news-newer-than since-the-ink-dried.

If you'll be attending the NAB/RAB Radio Show in Washington end-of-this-month, DON'T MISS the session with visionary Talkers magazine publisher Michael Harrison, 11AM Wed9/29.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

As per another thread, Jeff Smulyan's attempt to take Emmis private failed. How long can Emmis continue to operate stations? If another operator bought any of Emmis' NY stations (WQHT, WRKS, WRXP) perhaps one might be flipped to an FM talker.

 

[Holland Cooke]

FM Tawk? In Noo Yawk?

If another operator bought any of Emmis' NY stations (WQHT, WRKS, WRXP) perhaps one might be flipped to an FM talker.

"Stay tuned..."

 

[Holland Cooke]

CU@DC?

If you're attending the NAB/RAB Radio Show in Washington end-of-this-month, you will be handed my white paper on FM Talk.

If you won't be there, simply send an Email to [email protected], even a blank Email will do. Moments later, the robot will Email you the document.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com