• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Will News/Talk Fly on FM 101.9?

Some predictions, all worth the money you paid for them.

- Commercial music radio on FM is in its death throes, because advertising is still regarded as a necessary evil rather than what the listener percieves it as: a call to action to find something else to listen to. Anything radio does that actively causes their listeners to do anything other than listen, is self-defeating.

Real world use case 1: My wife, a top forty listener, punches presets (programmed by me to her specifications, of course) until a song she likes comes on. When she gets tired of punching buttons, she turns off the radio. A fresh song from a known artist gets listened to; less so a fresh song from an unknown artist unless it's reasonably similar to a known artist; less so DJ patter unless it's short and sweet, and an advertisement or a song that we've heard multiple times on other stations is a guaranteed tune-out, up to the point where the radio's turned off, generally with a sigh of relief. Radio loses, and because it's made the listener crave silence, the listener wins.

Real world use case 2: Some of my valuable iPod space contains a collection of current top forty, which generally costs me about $10/month at iTunes to keep up to date, more or less. (The Lada Gaga album blew the budget one month, though.) When that goes on shuffle, the radio stays off. Radio loses, and because my wife has me to program an iPod for her, the listener wins.

Real world use case 3: A three-hour aircheck of Steve Lamacq on BBC 6Music, on occasions where it's put on by me after my wife's reached the shutoff point, is generally tolerated (even in its entirety on long drives) despite rarely featuring a known song or artist, because the host appears between each song, briefly introduces the next track, and does so engagingly. In this case, the draw isn't the music (though after repeated listens it can be)...it's the host. The late John Peel was capable of the same reaction; my wife would tolerate three minutes of the most ungodly noise just to hear what Peel would say about it afterward. Radio wins...just not US radio.

Real world use case 4: My wife's sister has a backyard with a pool, and an integrated audio system with faux rock speakers capable of delivering hefty volume around the pool, with a Sirius radio attached. That's where their monthly music budget goes, because they can't be bothered to actually collect and program music for an iPod. They do, however, like to listen to 92.3 Now and have figured out when, on the weekends, their commercial load is the lightest. They switch to Sirius when they get tired of commercial breaks. Radio loses. Sirius wins, and so does the listener.

Noticing a trend?

The listener always wins.

Radio forgot that.

Some follow-up predictions:

- Terrestrial music radio will, for a time, be consigned to HD Radio channels. It will be automated, generally, until an audience can support an advertising model - which will need to be radically different from today's model to keep it from again losing listeners to satellite and iPod. HD Radio's patents will need to expire for this to be a significant factor, though, because it's those patents and their associated fees that are keeping HD Radio technology out of radios available now. (Technological issues remain to be worked, including next-generation codecs and better transmission power models, but ubiquity of HD Radios will combat fringe area noise, since their DSPs, and in fact the receiver sections of better non-HD radios. tend to cancel it in the FM band implementation. On AM, much work needs to be done to make HD effective, and it may never be.)

- If radio continues to leak listeners by not understanding that listeners tune out when radio tells them to, wealth will leak out of radio with those listeners. That wealth will travel to other bandwidth-using services. Cellular data use is growing exponentially, and the toll collected on that growth by wireless bandwidth providers (it seems quaint to call them cell phone companies anymore) will fund lobbying pressure that will overwhelm commercial broadcasting's clout. We'll see a shrinkage or outright loss of traditional radio spectrum in this decade if radio can't keep its lobby funded. Commercial broadcasters will need to stay better-than-simply-solvent to secure radio's spectrum; non-commercial broadcasters can't do it alone. This is a classic example of playing to not-lose rather than playing to win, and in a sense, radio may already have lost.

So, here's the extra credit question: how can radio win?
 
Re: WRXP May Be Going to Female Oriented News/Talk

UncleBozzle said:
Logic would seem to dictate that these guy's could lose their shirts on this move, that's why it doesn't seem logical. They will go with something daring, but not this daring....it has to be a music format of some type, be it Country, or Hot AC, just something a bit different than what has been done in the past. Safe but daring if that makes any sense.

Didn't they tell Emmis the same thing 24 years ago when they came up with the crazy idea for a 24-hour all-sports station?
 
Re: WRXP May Be Going to Female Oriented News/Talk

Back in the days of Blink 102.7 it was awful, awful, awful. Low ratings, 20 hours of J-Lo talk, etc.

-crainbebo
 
hubcity said:
The listener always wins.

Radio forgot that.

Huh? The data radio programmers get today is far more detailed than your real world use cases. If your wife or her sister carry a PPM, we know which songs cause her to tune out, where she goes, the order of her pre-sets and preferences, and when she turns the radio off. So, no, everyone in radio knows that the listener always wins.

But we also know that most listeners are lazy, cheap, and music isn't the most important thing in their lives. Some listeners aren't lazy, and they're the button pushers. Some aren't cheap, and they pay for monthly subscriptions. Some love music, and they have their own radio stations on Pandora or Live365.

But we know a few more things about music and radio listeners: There are still a few music formats that attract huge OTA audiences, and some of those audiences are very passionate about both the music and the radio station. Those are the formats and stations that will have a long life ahead of them. But at the same time, there's more to radio than music, and the best thing about non-music content is that the station owns it, and can monetize it on all platforms. They can't do that with music.

How can radio win? By diversification. If you've ever been to Las Vegas, you can put all your money on one number or color, or you can spread it around. The experts say you should spread it around, because there is no single way to win. But if you spread it around, your odds improve. So the right move for radio is to diversify formats, diversify platforms, and diversify the types of things you offer advertisers. The hard part for Merlin in NYC is it only owns one radio station. So it's putting all its money on one thing. Whatever they do, they better hit, or they will lose it all.
 
TheBigA said:
So, no, everyone in radio knows that the listener always wins.

So commercials on music radio are more like an aggressive cancer that, if removed, would cause death quicker than the lingering demise already in the prognosis?

I think I agree with that...
 
Re: WRXP May Be Going to Female Oriented News/Talk

DToTheJ said:
LibertyNT said:
We Had an all Female Talk Station In Dallas once
Called Cafe 990
Lasted 3 days.

I'm surprised our friend from Connecticut, MarcB, hasn't chimed in yet to inform us that the old WXCT also tried a female-geared talk format that went by the wayside after several months... ;)

There was also an female-and-lifestyle talker in Los Angeles back in the early 90s - ABC Radio set it up on KMPC/710 as a complement to KABC/790. Guess what? It flopped after three years, and ABC turned it into Radio Disney outlet KDIS.

Not to mention WVIE/1370 Baltimore, which had the novel approach of carrying only syndicated female talkers - Dr. Laura, Laura Ingraham, Stephanie Miller, Tammy Bruce, Dr. Joy Browne, Sally Jesse Raphael, and IIRC, Randy Rhodes. Didn't last long, either.
 
Re: WRXP May Be Going to Female Oriented News/Talk

Barry said:
AllAccess is pointing out that the website www.ny1019.com shows, "Under Construction and Coming Soon." This leads them to speculate that the new station may resemble NJ 101.5, since it uses a website with a similar name. They also opine that the WYNY sites registered to Merlin may have been just a smokescreen.

Well, "WYNY" - NY101.9? Makes sense to me. ;)

I think a lot of stuff is merely a smokescreen. The only definitive proof of anything taking place has been Randy's poaching of WINS personnel. Aside from that, the female talk rumor is what it is. A rumor. And a rumor is just a wild guess in designer jeans. :D
 
hubcity said:
So commercials on music radio are more like an aggressive cancer that, if removed, would cause death quicker than the lingering demise already in the prognosis?

I think I agree with that...

The money has to come from somewhere. Right now, most listeners don't think music is worth paying for. But we have pretty good statistics that the cheap and lazy listeners will sit through commercial breaks. Here's a real life case story for you: I was visiting a relative who doesn't have a remote control for their TV. Guess how often I changed the station.

Specifically to the point about advertising on music radio, as long as the station attracts a large audience, advertisers will be there. And since most radio stations are building sales packages around more than simply on-air spots, the advertisers are getting a very good ROI.

As I said, it depends on the format. But for the most part, active and alternative rock music attracts an audience that is violently opposed to commercials. To them, it is, as you say, a cancer. That's why rock radio is on life support in a lot of cities. For those people, they have to deal with the reality that they will have to pay for their music, either on satellite or internet. Or non-commercial listener-supported radio, which is a great alternative IF people support it.
 
Re: WRXP May Be Going to Female Oriented News/Talk

DToTheJ said:
I'm surprised our friend from Connecticut, MarcB, hasn't chimed in yet to inform us that the old WXCT also tried a female-geared talk format that went by the wayside after several months... ;)

I know I mentioned it somewhere on here or on Dr. Sniffen's Board that all the female oriented talk stations failed and mentioned 990 Hartford, 1570 Boston, 1370 Baltimore, 1300 Albany, NY and 1070 in Vermont.
 
TheBigA said:
hubcity said:
The listener always wins.

Radio forgot that.

Huh? The data radio programmers get today is far more detailed than your real world use cases. If your wife or her sister carry a PPM, we know which songs cause her to tune out, where she goes, the order of her pre-sets and preferences, and when she turns the radio off. So, no, everyone in radio knows that the listener always wins.

That's the problem. Radio is supposed to be an art. Not a science.

Radio has been researched to death a thousand-fold, and then some, for over three decades now. Research and consultants took away the freedom of actual radio programmers themselves. There were some stations that profoundly succeeded back in the 70s and 80s because they bucked typical programming conventions - and amassed a wide swath of diverse listeners (i.e., Top 40 embracing disco, rock stations playing "Billy Jean" or embracing new wave acts). It will never happen again because pop music ended up conforming to these radio conventions. What we have is a Balkanized music radio culture, as a result, it is all slowly starting to die.

The listener doesn't win. Neither does the actual radio programmer.
 
Nathan Obral said:
That's the problem. Radio is supposed to be an art. Not a science.

Tell that to Marconi. It was ALL science to him.

Radio is both an art and a science, plus a business and a pleasure. It's not just one thing.

The reason radio has been researched is because no one knows what's good any more. But everyone knows what they like. When you deal with subjective data, it's impossible to be objective. Record labels used to do A&R, making sure they signed the best talent before giving them to radio. That doesn't happen any more. Now, anyone who wants to release music can, regardless of quality.

Like most things, it's about trade-offs. Lots of listeners win. But some don't. If your taste falls into a clearly defined area, you win. If it doesn't, get out your credit card. Same with programmers. If you're happy programming to the masses, you win. If not, start your own internet station. Anyone can do it today. You don't need towers and transmitters.
 
Re: WRXP May Be Going to Female Oriented News/Talk

Nathan Obral said:
Barry said:
AllAccess is pointing out that the website www.ny1019.com shows, "Under Construction and Coming Soon." This leads them to speculate that the new station may resemble NJ 101.5, since it uses a website with a similar name. They also opine that the WYNY sites registered to Merlin may have been just a smokescreen.

Well, "WYNY" - NY101.9? Makes sense to me. ;)

I think a lot of stuff is merely a smokescreen. The only definitive proof of anything taking place has been Randy's poaching of WINS personnel. Aside from that, the female talk rumor is what it is. A rumor. And a rumor is just a wild guess in designer jeans. :D

News/talk during the week and music on the weekends? That works for a New Jersey station, but I doubt it would work in NYC.

Randy didn't lure professional news people from WINS to put them on a female talk station or a country station! :)
 
Nathan Obral said:
WABC and WOR only bill because they are the de facto talk stations in the market, but both are so poorly run. There's nothing special about either of them, and WABC is only live/local for two hours in the late morning. No news department, and no local newscasts after 8PM. WOR has a purely schizophrenic lineup. Boring to blah, and then there's Savage... if Gambling and Malzberg weren't there, 710 would be hurting big time.

If you put up WABC and WOR against strong talk powerhouses like KFI in Los Angeles, WLW in Cincinnati, KGO in San Francisco, KTAR in Phoenix or KIRO in Seattle, they all crush WABC and WOR handily. Plus neither station's ownership is showing any willingness to invest in the stations whatsoever.

If Randy plays his cards right and puts a full-service, all-local talker with a 24/7 news department, it crushes WABC (and could overwhelm Citadel/Cumulus, as it is their top station) and ages WOR ever more... probably to the 75-dead demographic.

Nathan, you have echoed my sentiments! A station programmed like KIRO Seattle and KTAR Phoenix and the others you mention blow away WABC and WOR. I have listened to KIRO and KTAR online, and find them an entertaining and informative listen. I'm not moving to Seattle or Phoenix, but those two markets have each an excellent news/talk station and both are on FM.

KIRO-FMs slogan is Where Seattle stays in touch. Can't say that about WABC and WOR! They only do as well as they do because they have no competition. Randy is hopefully about to change all that! News/Talk on FM has done well in many markets, including markets that have 50 kW AM signals. The FM talk tsunami is about to arrive in Market #1! :)
 
The FM talk tsunami is about to arrive in Market #1!

What wishful thinking. Hey somebody should tell Randy and Merlin that the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale too. LOL LOL LOL
 
A well done N/T will indeed put pressure on WOR and WABC. With Walt Sabo in the fold, might we see some NJ101.5-style production values?
 
DG02816 said:
A well done N/T will indeed put pressure on WOR and WABC.

No question about that! WOR and WABC are New York radio stations only by their COL! They ignore NY area issues! That's a format hole big enough for Merlin to run a freight train through! If Randy Michaels and Walt Sabo do it right, WOR and WABC will be severely impacted and WCBS and WINS will have a serious thorn in their sides! :)
 
If Randy Michaels and Walt Sabo do it right, WOR and WABC will be severely impacted and WCBS and WINS will have a serious thorn in their sides! Smiley

If WOR and WABC are severely impacted by the new station, it is because they became collateral damage, NOT because they were original targets.

In the latest PPM ratings, WOR has a weekly cume of 805,000 and WABC has 1.1-million. Even if you add those two numbers up, you come up with fewer than 2-million listeners a week for both of them together.. And the cume number for the two is lower than that because many of the same people listen to both.

We also know both WABC and WOR have an aging audience, and Conservative talk is more popular with men.

This new station is targeting a younger audience, and, more importantly, a younger female audience. It also will be looking to become a major FM player with a cume of between four and six million like Lite-FM, KTU, Z100, or WCBS-FM.

If the new station is all news, it might hurt WCBS-AM, and WINS in their younger and, particularly, female demos.

We'll just have to wait until the new format is on the air a while before we can figure much of it out. But the new station will try to take its younger target audience from its rival FM music stations, more than from anything on AM.
 
[quote This new station is targeting a younger audience, and, more importantly, a younger female audience.

Problem is MILF's are addicted to cell phones and daytime TV talk. Randy and Merlin don't belong in NYC. Their ideas are too stupid.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom