Will there still be freestyle concerts in the next 20 years?

[Wildstyle K]

This is a question that popped into my mind during a phone conversation and it led to a discussion on the topic.

Now, I'm not really going to get into it or answer this question because I believe if you just think about it - and think about it intelligently rather than superficially or based on wishful thinking, the answer is very clear.

Just keep in mind that

1. People do not live forever
2. The new school freestyle acts pretty much never have concerts
3. No one knows who will teach these new generation of kids what freestyle is
4. You are mistaken if you think "it's ok. Akon, Flo Rida, Jay Sean, and Pitbull will continue the tradition AND genre name"
5. Having a "pop" concert consisting of uptempo hits that everyone is calling pop does not count as "freestyle"
6. Elderly people having a "freestyle reunion", talking in front of someone's tv, and playing mp3's from the past doesn't count as a "concert".

Now, with that being said, remember that the question is:
IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS, WILL THERE STILL BE FREESTYLE CONCERTS?

There is really not much more I can say because regardless of how "deep and futuristic" the question may seem, you really cannot have a deep discussion about this without touching on some form of wishful thinking and using hypothetical questions as an attempt to get an answer that's congruent to what you wish to hear - if you are a freestyle fanatic. I'm not sure who will educate the kids on music, especially when my Zune store has Tiao Cruz in the TECHNO section, but at the same time I hear people say Taio Cruz is HIP HOP. I'm a bit confused now because I was almost fully convinced everything today was POP. Well... In 2030, I'll be back to say more on this topic.

Just thought I'd get people thinking a bit.
We must not forget that just because things are a certain way now, this doesn't mean it will be the same forever...

 

[TonySantiago]

KDM,

I argue this ad nauseum to the freestyle dance music community. : (Morpheux, step in here! ;D )

Often I would joke about a pledge drive on a public TV station 20 years from now as they're selling a video called "Freestyle Forever" with 60 and 70 somethings, in Atlantic City, trying to dance around with a couple of artists that are still alive singing those mid 80's to early 90's tracks. What isn't funny about this is the fact that you can actually see this now with "Doo Wop".

There have been freestyle symposiums that have been going on recently here in New York (the next one is June 22nd...hit me up on FB for details) trying to bring the matter up. The problem here with freestyle today are plenty:

1. The fans are mainly STUCK to wanting to hear more of the classic sounds than anything new. If anything, most fans DETEST new.
2. It's safer for the artists that have been established to sing what they have been for the past 20-25 years or so since it still "sells" at freestyle establishments such as "Sidetracks" in Queens, NY as well as concerts such as BeatStock.
3. Production-wise, there has been little growth in terms of trying to "evolve" the freestyle sound into something for the current 20 something generation. And even on that scale, most of the 20 something (which are few) that are into freestyle are in that 80's/90's mode.

(I'll type more in a sec)

 

[Dancerev889]

There are still Doo-Wop concerts, and disco concerts. I think freestyle will be safe. BTW those other concerts are well attended

 

[TonySantiago]

PART 2 (my edit time ran out as I was going from one computer to another)

4. DJ's don't play the new music because, and rightfully so being that this is their job and their reputations lie on this, they HAVE to keep the floor packed. People will STICK with the older material but walk away when something new happens.
5. The average age of a freestyle listener are between the late 30's and early 50's.

I take a lot of crap by saying this, but (and do note the quotes here) if "freestyle" has a chance of coming back, then it has to "die". And I say that NOT to hate on the history and the past of it. There will always be that heritage of dance music that we can look back upon, but if things are going to have any chance of advancement, everything has to be re-invented.

Certain elements MUST remain.

1. Keeping it English based with the Latin/Italian flavor to it in that "working class/outer borough" mode.
2. Having artists from their teens to twenty-somethings perform the music and getting to that same peer crowd, just like it was in the 80's/90's during the peek.

However, the new sound CANNOT be called freestyle. And while I can certainly respect the argument that Lady GaGa, Akon have certain elements of their music that come off that way, the reality is, the music is NOT freestyle. Nor should this new sound have ANYTHING to do with the 80's counterpart.

If there will be concerts like this in 20 years, all must be done now to get the 20 somethings involved in a new sound, producers have to come up with a way to produce music to gear to today's Latino generation without cutting their nose to spite their face.

My answer may not be THE definitive answer, but what's going on now?

 

[TonySantiago]

There are still Doo-Wop concerts, and disco concerts. I think freestyle will be safe. BTW those other concerts are well attended

I caught this while typing Part 2.

Yes, there are attendances for these concerts. But the point that KDM was trying to make (and I think you get it) is that what's going to happen down the road? Granted, jazz came through in the 20's. But while that generation is long gone for the most part, Jazz was able to evolve. Freestyle had its slight evolvements during the peak but nothing really since the mid 90's. And that was the GIST of what KDM was trying to say here.

That's why I think the music, if it has any chance, must be reinvented yet the "heritage" of what was freestyle should still be respected.

 

[DJ_Perry]

Freestyle is such a Niche Format. Even when it was popular, it was regional. Being from Az, I grew up with Freestyle on the radio, but I have learned that these songs that seemed like 'hits" to me, are unknown elsewhere. Obviously Freestyle has a good following in New York, Miami, Chicago, LA, and other places where it got exposed. But I still come across people that are not even familiar with the term 'freestyle', but they do know a song or 2 by Expose, or Stevie B. They just call it Old School, or 80's Pop / Club music.

During my involvement at an Old School Station (Mega 104.3) and even former Energy Az, we brought a few Freestyle concerts to the stage. The groups typically consist of 1 former member and the rest are younger replacements. There is no band. They just sing over an instrumental (if not lip sync to the original vocal version)! This is not to bash Freestyle, because I have seen the same with other Old School concerts too.

So I don't know if I really have a point, but I would suggest this: Don't put a concert in a pigeon hole by calling it "Freestyle". Call it something that reflects a broader piece of history. Perhaps include some other 80s or 90s artists that were also on the charts (and get the real singers along with a band!). Even though the music was Electronic, concerts sound so much better if they have hired musicians that can play along with the track.

 

[Dancerev889]

There are still Doo-Wop concerts, and disco concerts. I think freestyle will be safe. BTW those other concerts are well attended

I caught this while typing Part 2.

Yes, there are attendances for these concerts. But the point that KDM was trying to make (and I think you get it) is that what's going to happen down the road? Granted, jazz came through in the 20's. But while that generation is long gone for the most part, Jazz was able to evolve. Freestyle had its slight evolvements during the peak but nothing really since the mid 90's. And that was the GIST of what KDM was trying to say here.

That's why I think the music, if it has any chance, must be reinvented yet the "heritage" of what was freestyle should still be respected.

Freestyle has evolved, just like every other form of dance music. I think people kid themselves that Freestyle is going to "modernize" itself. It's like every genre of music, it went through a period of time and it changed. Vito Bruno does great job with these types of events. The Freestyle Free 4 All, The Disco Ball and so on. Will it work everywhere no, but neither does other genres.

 

[Wildstyle K]

What I wonder is at what point exactly did freestyle stop evolving? Back in the 80's, it sounded one way. Then in the late 90's, a new sound that is almost completely different surfaced - but was considered freestyle. Yet today, you have songs like "down" by Jay Sean and certain things by Flo Rida..etc. not being accepted. It makes me wonder how people like Debbie Deb and others with beat patterns similar to hers made it into acceptance when it sounds nothing like TKA, Nocera, or Shannon?

As far as the DMA Freestyle Flava and Tony Monaco Freestyle Heaven stuff, I'm wondering why half of those songs were on those albums? I remember someone once telling me in a forum that The Underdog Project is not freestyle, yet it appeared right there on the album, along with "Masquerade" by Science.

I also question why is Lina Santiago, Jocelyn Enriquez, Angelina, Planet Soul, and that whole sound considered freestyle because those sounds in my opinion were way more outrageous than anything that's going on today in the mainstream uptempo breakbeat style pop sound. I'd say I notice much less difference between Willie Valentin's "look at me now" and jay Sean's "Do you remember" than I do with "Silent Morning" by Noel and "A little bit of ecstacy" by Jocelyn Enriquez. I think the same goes for "take me in your arms" or even "when I hear music" when compared to the instrumentation of Jay Sean's "down". What would Jay Sean "down" be if it came out in 1996 instead of 2009? What would Akon's "right now (na na na)" be if it were done by another unknown singer, or if it were done in 1995?

And why is Africa Bambaataa, Planet Patrol, and all those break dancing artists that people like Flo Rida and a few other people today are "biting off" part of freestyle? ..And does this mean "crush on you" by The Jets is freestyle? Because The Jets surely do sound more freestyle than "A, E, I, O, U" by Freeze or "fascinated" by Company B. To me, all this is just as confusing as Heavy D "now that we found love" being accepted as hip hop, while the Outhere Brothers "boom boom boom" is not.

 

[TonySantiago]

Freestyle has evolved, just like every other form of dance music. I think people kid themselves that Freestyle is going to "modernize" itself. It's like every genre of music, it went through a period of time and it changed. Vito Bruno does great job with these types of events. The Freestyle Free 4 All, The Disco Ball and so on. Will it work everywhere no, but neither does other genres.

It did evolve, but not enough past 1996. You had a brief moment with the West Coast stuff (Lina Santiago, Jocelyn Enriquez), but with the exception of a specialty show in Toronto, no new freestyle was able to break through on the radio. And for whatever change that FEW people tune in on, the majority haven't.

INSTEAD, 'KTU and Pulse 87 played the classics ONLY. And if that sound has been thoroughly embedded in people's mindsets. then no wonder why people won't open up to new. Which is also why artists like Judy Torres and George Lamond have shifted gears to other forms of dance and the main audience tuning in are in the 40's (such as myself here).

You can't modernize "freestyle". You just take a new sound somehow, go for the younger crowd and call it something else. I'll stand strong on that belief. In this case, you have the Internet stations (some that specifically cater to freestyle and are BEGGING to open up to newer sounds, I know this firsthand from someone who I'll keep confidential) and take things from there. IF a buzz is created along the way, then perhaps you guys on FM will open to it.

We shall see.

Oh yeah, Vito Bruno DOES a spectacular job putting these shows together I'll ALWAYS be supportive of him

 

[Dancerev889]

What I meant was freestyle has evolved into something different. A few years ago it was breakbeat. But like every form of music it has morphed into something else. Too many people are trying to bring that sound back. You cant recreate that. Music has changed and so has the technology that was used to create it. Its like the Doo Wop era, there was just something during that time that made the music special.

 

[TonySantiago]

What I meant was freestyle has evolved into something different. A few years ago it was breakbeat. But like every form of music it has morphed into something else. Too many people are trying to bring that sound back. You cant recreate that. Music has changed and so has the technology that was used to create it. Its like the Doo Wop era, there was just something during that time that made the music special.

Okay, cool I got you now!

And I will WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with that last sentence. It was a special time during the 80's when dance was coming through very strong throughout the country, this after the recent "death" of disco. You had Hot 103/97 in NYC, Power 106 in L.A., Power 96 in Miami, WBMX and B-96 in Chicago, Q-102 in Philadelphia, Kiss 95.7 in Hartford, Kiss 108 in Boston and KIX106 in Providence, RI, KMEL in S.F. And for strong Latin/Italian based cities like NYC, Philly and Miami, freestyle came in at the right moment during this musical "explosion" of creativity that was happening all around. Whether it was just being 20 somethings, hitting certain clubs, hanging out with certain people, hanging at record stores hearing 12" all day, there was something about it!

But regarding what I meant by bringing the sound back, NO..it can NEVER sound like 1980's all over again nor should it even target those who grew up in the FIRST generation of freestyle. That will NEVER work. It has to be a new sound, new teens/twenty-somethings singing it and targeting their sound to that audience. NEVER CALL IT FREESTYLE!

That new "outer borough/So. Philly" generation has to have something to reflect on as well. And it really shouldn't be their "parents" music

 

[d21ofnj]

Wow, talking about breakbeat, I remember the breakbeat sound, mostly popular in South Florida, with acts like DJ Icey, Freestylers, Pimpsmacker, Timo Maas, and the summer vibes compilation Vic made in 02 that had mostly all breakbeat remixes. I think this new "freestyle" that's evolved are acts from LMFAO and Chuckie. That's my opinion.

 

[DJ_Perry]

But I think it's more than just freestyle that is coming back. It's the whole late 80's / early 90's era repeating. Back then, uptempo ruled the charts: C&C, Black Box, Snap, Madonna or Technotronic. Even those One Hit Wonders like Wiggle It, Good Vibrations, or Groove is in the Heart were also club Hits and still appealed to MTV / Radio. So when I notice so much new stuff on the radio that is 120BPM or faster, I am reminded of those days when Music was fun. Radio had the right mix of Urban and Dance in rotation. Today's Top 40 Format is somewhat similar to 20 years ago. But I don't think all of todays artists remember that era, yet in order to get airplay, they follow the trend of using producers that have club appeal. Any freestyle similarity is probably a coincidence, as it was the roots for the modern club sound.

 

[DJ_Perry]

So back to the original subject, bring a concert that captures Freestyle in addtion to the music it influenced! Much of the early House and Pop Music of that Era was a product of Freestyle. For example, I've seen debates on whether The Jetts or Taylor Dayne can be considered Freestyle or not. I would say, the producers of their music were looking for that sound, since it appealed to both Urban and Pop audiences. Obviously the formula is not exact, but perhaps such examples were marketed to have a similiar sound for a broader crowd.

 

[Wildstyle K]

I must ask:
What should I call the stuff I play now?

I'm tired of having to write down a paragraph of genres or a list of subgenres with dashes and slashes inbetween them just to try to describe something I'm promoting or playing in a mix...etc. ..And just calling it rhythmic dance is not a term that people see and fully understand. Other words that will not help with accurate description/promotion of the modern sound are:

electro
pop
techno
dance
pop remixes
uptempo
breakbeat
electro-pop

and I refuse to promote my mixes simply as pop mixes, club, or unclassified genre hits.

I think the freestyle sound has really been messed up by definition because it's the only genre to seemingly have this problem where parts of the sound have evolved to the point where no genre, including freestyle itself, wants to accept the new sound that its transformed to. Unlike soca, 2 step / garage, r&b, rock, jazz...etc, freestyle has led the way to unclassifiable genre sounds today, and just saying "pop" or "techno" for everything just isn't going to do it. I also don't think "quasi-dance" will fly because then you still have to differentiate between the quasi-dance with house pattern beats and the quasi-dance with break beats.

I also can't find anyone to look up to and get suggestions in how to label my mixes since these days no one does mixes similar to the styles and genres I put together in mine. It's true that back in the day there were many people that used my style of mixing, but those were the days when people could just call it "bass 'n' freestyle". However, since I use a style / formula that was popular in the 90's with today's modern dance hits, saying "bass 'n' freestyle will not fly. It also doesn't help that the term "booty bass" has been forgotten because now this means the whole booty bass and freestyle terms are off limits, so it's not like you can even pass it by as bass.

Akon - Beautiful
Jay Sean - Down
Ne-yo - beautiful monster
Jeremih - Birthday Sex (Uptempo remix)
Willie Valentin - Look at me now
David Guetta ft Wynter Gordon - Toyfriend
Flo Rida - In The Ayer
Stefanie Bennett - Can u stop the rain (south mix)
Pitbull - shut it down
Akon - Nosy Neighbor

What do we call these sounds or anything similar today? What would a mix that consists of this type of sounds be considered as? What do you call it if you do that style mixed in with modern pure dance or house thrown in?

As far as Dj Class, Chuckie, LMFAO and all those on the house side of things, I don't think they have the same problem since they can easily be considered as house, electro-hip hop, or bmore. It's pretty much only the urban modern freestyle and bass sound that seems to be nameless today.

If the term freestyle is going to die with the time period and past sound, then this pretty much also tells whether or not freestyle concerts will still be around in 20 years... But, if people happen to come up with a genre name for today's sound later on, will that new sound be(come) big or popular enough to have concerts of its own?

 

[DJ_Perry]

wow, I think I opened up a can of worms

 

[TonySantiago]

If the term freestyle is going to die with the time period and past sound, then this pretty much also tells whether or not freestyle concerts will still be around in 20 years... But, if people happen to come up with a genre name for today's sound later on, will that new sound be(come) big or popular enough to have concerts of its own?

That will be up to the fans of the music to dictate that. They can either love it or hate it. If the love IS there, then be sure promoters would want to market it for possible profits via concerts. But if the fans don't accept the new sounds, then it won't happen.

Though, for the fans of the first generation of freestyle (just like it is for the fans of doo-wop that tuned in during the late 50's/early 60's), they will always love and treasure the heritage of that sound as they were growing up with it back in the 80's/early 90's. The time period meant something. I just think that the 20-somethings that come from a similar background need that voice and identity as well

 

[Wildstyle K]

I think a new name needs to be created quickly because a few years back, a station that normally does a hip hop concert every year did another one of their "traditional" annual hip hop concerts, and the acts were Akon (when his recent hits were still only "right now na na na" and "beautiful"), Pitbull, LMFAO, Black Eyed Peas...etc. and other similar people. For some reason I want to think Lady Gaga was probably part of the line up - if I remember correctly. I was thinking "since when did this become hip hop"?
I do notice there are certain current + new dj's who tend to drift and have a fascination towards today's modern mainstream dance sound as if they know it is different from the regular hip hop hits that used to dominate. I just wonder how long will it be before the new sound is officially acknowledged and separated into it's own category?

At some point the public will have to realize that this modern sound of OMG by Usher, current Black Eyed Peas..etc sound is a separate thing from hip hop or regular pop music and give it a new name since it somewhat has it's own new distinct sound, and it will have to be the American's because I'm sure Europeans will just consider it all pop, being that they are more advanced than us when it comes to "real" dance music. What we are doing I'm sure is nothing more than pop compared to some of their stuff.

As far as music evolution goes, I wonder, what are the rules when it comes to how long or far something can evolve before a new name should be given? Think about the fact that hip hop and r&b have come a long way, transforming many times through Aerothsmith to the Timbaland, Missy and Neptunes sounds, to Outkast to the dirty south sounds to... what it's become now. However, could you imagine if disco was never given a new name when it evolved into house and eventually trance and it ended up going to the point where even Daft Punk or Dirty Vegas, or David Guetta were still being called disco today? Also notice how much dancehall has evolved to sounding very much like soca, and soca has some new sounds that are almost straight up house.

Would Pitbull performing hits like "the anthem" or "calle ocho" be considered a hip hop, dance, or reggae/soca concert? ..or does it all depend on which artists he shares the stage with?

Now, on another note, I wonder what the future of UK 2 Step and Garage will be? Unlike freestyle in the states, I've noticed how people in London have moved on to calling the traditional 2 Step sound "Old Skool Garage", even when naming NEW music or remixes with the traditional 2 Step sound. So, if this is the case, then what will they do if 2 Step comes back? Continue to keep calling it "Ol Skool Garage"?

I'm really dying to see if the whole "Ne-yo - Beautiful Monster" sound will become something. Even KPWR is already playing it... and this is KPWR! www.power106.com Will Ne-yo sing this during his future concerts?

 

[DJ_Perry]

This silly thread has completely gone off topic. Less is More. Squash all those sub genres and lables. Dance already has an identity crisis, so let's not make it worse.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Less is more, yet it seems like we continuously need to make more genres as time goes on. As of right now, if no new name is given and the old names are off limits, the state of confusion that currently exists will cause everyone to eventually start calling more or less everything whatever they want.

Today's sound should at least be able to be classified, known as, or accepted as dance or pop or hip hop, not just thrown about everywhere. It should be that you could ask people "what would you consider Jay Sean's "down" or Akon's "beautiful"?" and you can manage to get mostly one main answer, then be able to follow it with "would you go to a ------ concert if there was one?" with NO confusion. The way music is going these days, eventually, there will have to be some type of concert for this new dance sound, featuring artists that are specific to this particular new generation sound, the same way there have been freestyle and dance music concerts. Only one problem though.. you cannot advertise it or let people know accurately what it is about or represent a certain sound if it isn't specifically named.

20 years is not really that far away! As a matter of fact, I believe this new sound (both the modern mainstream freestyle breaks AND house style productions) will be around and popular for at least 1/4th to 1/2 of those 20 years! Whatever the new name shall be, it should be something that will help BRIDGE the gap between dance and popular hits and get people to see dance as a whole (not just the dance by former pop artists..) cool for the long run. I guess after all, we do need some type of new image label, being that everything else genre-wise has been more or less played out. BUT... if a new label is given, then I guess this means NO, there will not be FREESTYLE concerts in 20 years, by definition of genre, and the freestyle name will only live on as long as the people who are very familiar with the term continue to live. The amount of young people alone in the next 20 years just wont be enough to keep concerts going, especially if the new generation doesn't have some type of miracle save them and keep them from having to redo older songs from a generation that has passed away.