WILL YOU CONTINUE TO WATCH 2 1/2 MEN ?

[quadraphonic]

I find this whole situation absolutely hilarious. TAAHM is basically a made-for-tv series about Charlie's life. Its a show that not only makes fun of the way he lives his life, but it glorifies it too.

Will these troubles make me stop watching? No way. If anything, knowing that the story on the show closely resembles his life makes the show even funnier. With that said, we can't glorify that lifestyle with a number 1 rated sitcom and then all thumb our noses when it turns out to be reality.

I was waiting for somebody to bring that up. Charlie Harper drinks like a fish, sleeps around with any attractive woman, and lives a hedonistic life. There are a couple of differences - Harper apparently doesn't do drugs, and Sheen is wealthier. But to object to the show because Charlie Sheen leads a hedonistic life is kind of ironic, don't you think?

But if the show is only "kind of hedonistic" and the real life is "wantonly hedonistic" somewhere in there there is room for objections, for most people.
Life might imitate art, and art might imitate life, but not everyone wants to see a train wreck, or an elephant pooping.

But the viewers aren't seeing a "train wreck" because Sheen appears to come to work sober - at least he reads his lines without slurring his words, and there are no reports that he has acted out on the set, or acted badly toward his co-workers.

But "real life" and "art" aren't that compartmentalized for many people, it's pretty subjective. They're both "in the viewer's head, theater of the mind, etc." The "train wreck" could also happen in real life, which is imitating the art, or like someone else said, the target of the show's parody (perception depends on the perceiver).

Since everyone knows about the "train wreck" that's already happened, that's reason enough for plenty of people to turn their heads, so they don't spend the 30 minutes lost in thought about hotels, hookers, and blow.
Not that the turning of the heads will last forever, but it might last longer than the show if CBS gets too tired of Sheen's real life "train wreck." You never know. None of it is cut and dry.

 

[LibertyNT]

Personally I like the show, and will continue watching.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Personally I like the show, and will continue watching.

Me too. I would rather Sheen's life be better than Harper's, but it's not necessary.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I'd certainly miss Charlie, but I don't think another actor could play him.

 

[landtuna]

There are very, very few sitcoms that I will watch regularly. TAAHM from the outset had great writing, a strong cast, very good guests and a reasonable amount of ingenuity. I greatly enjoyed it most of the time. But for me Charlie Sheen was never the main attraction. Jon Cryer was the much better actor and Sheen seemed to be the set up guy.

I can watch Errol Flynn movies and enjoy them without having his personal exploits take away from the fun. I can watch John Wayne without getting upset about his political views. Ditto Barbra Streisand, Jane Fonda and the list goes on. They are just actors, not my idols nor my conscience.

So I will continue watching TAAHM so long as it is at least the same quality as it has been - whether Sheen is in the cast or not.

 

[mnradiofan]

I find this whole situation absolutely hilarious. TAAHM is basically a made-for-tv series about Charlie's life. Its a show that not only makes fun of the way he lives his life, but it glorifies it too.

Will these troubles make me stop watching? No way. If anything, knowing that the story on the show closely resembles his life makes the show even funnier. With that said, we can't glorify that lifestyle with a number 1 rated sitcom and then all thumb our noses when it turns out to be reality.

I was waiting for somebody to bring that up. Charlie Harper drinks like a fish, sleeps around with any attractive woman, and lives a hedonistic life. There are a couple of differences - Harper apparently doesn't do drugs, and Sheen is wealthier. But to object to the show because Charlie Sheen leads a hedonistic life is kind of ironic, don't you think?

I missed this earlier. Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs. Regardless of whether Harper does drugs or drinks like a fish, addiction is addiction. Alcoholism actually kills more people than hardcore drug addiction (although, usually it's over a longer period of time, whereas with drug use it could be just one overdose).

Drugs are drugs, and just because Alcohol is a legal drug doesn't make it any better for you than the illegal stuff.

 

[landtuna]

Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs.

Seems to me they joked about drugs but not about Charlie doing drugs. In the show Charlie Harper is clearly an alcoholic and he is continually being reprimanded by Alan, Berta, Rose, Evelyn, Jake and even most of his "companions". They, and he, are making jokes and deriding his lifestyle. (And much the same goes on about his constant flow of female companions, excepting Mia and Chelsea.) I don't remember an episode where someone doesn't admonish Charlie about his vices.

A far worse example for impressionable viewers, IMHO, is Jake and his eating habits. Although he clearly knows he is doing something unhealthy he goes right ahead anyway. And there is a slightly more subtle message that it's OK to be a non-achiever - a message that is all too frequent in our TV comedies and in our society.

 

[mnradiofan]

Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs.

Seems to me they joked about drugs but not about Charlie doing drugs. In the show Charlie Harper is clearly an alcoholic and he is continually being reprimanded by Alan, Berta, Rose, Evelyn, Jake and even most of his "companions". They, and he, are making jokes and deriding his lifestyle. (And much the same goes on about his constant flow of female companions, excepting Mia and Chelsea.) I don't remember an episode where someone doesn't admonish Charlie about his vices.

A far worse example for impressionable viewers, IMHO, is Jake and his eating habits. Although he clearly knows he is doing something unhealthy he goes right ahead anyway. And there is a slightly more subtle message that it's OK to be a non-achiever - a message that is all too frequent in our TV comedies and in our society.

True, but let's not blame TV for our lack of willpower or achieving. TV is only responding to the trends. I spend tons of time watching TV, and I always have, yet I have a fairly successful career. And, while I too make bad food decisions, I do know better. TV didn't make me do either, and actually I'm now starting to watch what I eat and have been losing weight steadily for the past 3 months, yet my TV watching habits haven't changed at all.

I guess my overall message is personal responsibility. I've seen every episode of Two and a Half men, and countless other sitcoms, yet I've educated myself to know the difference between fake and reality, which is my responsibility. I know what I "should" eat, and what I "should" do, and I make my decisions independent of what anyone tells me. For almost 10 years, I smoked, even though I knew it would most likely kill me. I read all the warnings, had all the health classes, and even have friends who are doctors, yet I still did it, and I didn't quit until I was ready to do so. NOBODY can force you to do ANYTHING. If you want to drink, do drugs, and be destructive, nobody, not even a TV network and the threat of losing 2 million a week in income, is going to force you to stop.

 

[landtuna]

Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs.

Seems to me they joked about drugs but not about Charlie doing drugs. In the show Charlie Harper is clearly an alcoholic and he is continually being reprimanded by Alan, Berta, Rose, Evelyn, Jake and even most of his "companions". They, and he, are making jokes and deriding his lifestyle. (And much the same goes on about his constant flow of female companions, excepting Mia and Chelsea.) I don't remember an episode where someone doesn't admonish Charlie about his vices.

A far worse example for impressionable viewers, IMHO, is Jake and his eating habits. Although he clearly knows he is doing something unhealthy he goes right ahead anyway. And there is a slightly more subtle message that it's OK to be a non-achiever - a message that is all too frequent in our TV comedies and in our society.

True, but let's not blame TV for our lack of willpower or achieving. TV is only responding to the trends. I spend tons of time watching TV, and I always have, yet I have a fairly successful career. And, while I too make bad food decisions, I do know better. TV didn't make me do either, and actually I'm now starting to watch what I eat and have been losing weight steadily for the past 3 months, yet my TV watching habits haven't changed at all.

I guess my overall message is personal responsibility. I've seen every episode of Two and a Half men, and countless other sitcoms, yet I've educated myself to know the difference between fake and reality, which is my responsibility. I know what I "should" eat, and what I "should" do, and I make my decisions independent of what anyone tells me. For almost 10 years, I smoked, even though I knew it would most likely kill me. I read all the warnings, had all the health classes, and even have friends who are doctors, yet I still did it, and I didn't quit until I was ready to do so. NOBODY can force you to do ANYTHING. If you want to drink, do drugs, and be destructive, nobody, not even a TV network and the threat of losing 2 million a week in income, is going to force you to stop.

I wasn't admonishing the previous poster for his views but rather was providing my opinion of what was being said.

I don't think the broadcast audience is in any way ready (and probably should never be) for any show suggesting illegal drug use is a good thing and I don't see that in 2 1/2.

Personal responsibility is a noble goal but far too many people tend to want to be "cool" and follow the trend (remember the Marlboro Man of decades past?). I imagine that has been the case for humankind over the centuries but we notice it more because of our rapid and widespread communication capability. That isn't to say TV/radio have a responsibility not to broadcast edgy material but it is definitely a fine line. I think if you have to ask the question, it probably is and doesn't belong on the air.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs.

Seems to me they joked about drugs but not about Charlie doing drugs. In the show Charlie Harper is clearly an alcoholic and he is continually being reprimanded by Alan, Berta, Rose, Evelyn, Jake and even most of his "companions". They, and he, are making jokes and deriding his lifestyle. (And much the same goes on about his constant flow of female companions, excepting Mia and Chelsea.) I don't remember an episode where someone doesn't admonish Charlie about his vices.

Charlie Harper has gotten much worse lately. Which leads me to believe if they want to keep the show and not him, it won't be hard. Many references have been made in recent months of this possibility.

If it were Jon Cryer being replaced, I saw Matthew Broderick in "Stepford Wives" and he'd be perfect.

 

[quadraphonic]

Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs.

Seems to me they joked about drugs but not about Charlie doing drugs. In the show Charlie Harper is clearly an alcoholic and he is continually being reprimanded by Alan, Berta, Rose, Evelyn, Jake and even most of his "companions". They, and he, are making jokes and deriding his lifestyle. (And much the same goes on about his constant flow of female companions, excepting Mia and Chelsea.) I don't remember an episode where someone doesn't admonish Charlie about his vices.

A far worse example for impressionable viewers, IMHO, is Jake and his eating habits. Although he clearly knows he is doing something unhealthy he goes right ahead anyway. And there is a slightly more subtle message that it's OK to be a non-achiever - a message that is all too frequent in our TV comedies and in our society.

How are Jake's self-destructive eating habits any worse for impressionable viewers than Charlie's self-destructive drinking habits?
Is he eating people he killed?
It's true "we all eat" but virtually all of us have access to alcohol too, neither type of overindulgence should be "better" than the other.

If Jake's non-achiever status is being celebrated, isn't Charlie's non-achiever status also being celebrated by the jokes and wisecracks about his alcoholism? He's in his 40s. Isn't that "worse?" All he did was write a jingle, wasn't it?

Wouldn't all the adults' dearth of child-rearing skills be even worse than both of them, because that's a collective habit? Or maybe the "worst" habit they have is the way they live their lives, which any impressionable viewer might find something they want to emulate...

I watched the show for a while, and all that I got out of it was "celebrate deficiency" and "mock your family." And, I guess, "whoring around doesn't have consequences." All the people in the show were powerless to do anything about their dysfunctional lives, and could only spend most of their time cutting down the other people (their family, mostly) and their dysfunctions. To me, it ranks right up there with "House" among the shows that just got tiring after a season or so because the main characters didn't seem to have any redeeming qualities.

 

[Markxxx]

Dysfunctional = Funny

All one has to do is look at the self-conscious, overweight, and dateless or loser dating, Rhoda on Mary Tyler Moore and compare her with the slimmed downed, married to a hunk, self-assured Rhoda on her own TV show.

Who's a better role model? The latter, but who was MUCH funnier, the former.

As Rhoda said, "Let's face it the guys I go out with may not be much but when they dump me, I'm thrilled."

 

[mnradiofan]

Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs.

Seems to me they joked about drugs but not about Charlie doing drugs. In the show Charlie Harper is clearly an alcoholic and he is continually being reprimanded by Alan, Berta, Rose, Evelyn, Jake and even most of his "companions". They, and he, are making jokes and deriding his lifestyle. (And much the same goes on about his constant flow of female companions, excepting Mia and Chelsea.) I don't remember an episode where someone doesn't admonish Charlie about his vices.

A far worse example for impressionable viewers, IMHO, is Jake and his eating habits. Although he clearly knows he is doing something unhealthy he goes right ahead anyway. And there is a slightly more subtle message that it's OK to be a non-achiever - a message that is all too frequent in our TV comedies and in our society.

How are Jake's self-destructive eating habits any worse for impressionable viewers than Charlie's self-destructive drinking habits?
Is he eating people he killed?
It's true "we all eat" but virtually all of us have access to alcohol too, neither type of overindulgence should be "better" than the other.

If Jake's non-achiever status is being celebrated, isn't Charlie's non-achiever status also being celebrated by the jokes and wisecracks about his alcoholism? He's in his 40s. Isn't that "worse?" All he did was write a jingle, wasn't it?

Wouldn't all the adults' dearth of child-rearing skills be even worse than both of them, because that's a collective habit? Or maybe the "worst" habit they have is the way they live their lives, which any impressionable viewer might find something they want to emulate...

I watched the show for a while, and all that I got out of it was "celebrate deficiency" and "mock your family." And, I guess, "whoring around doesn't have consequences." All the people in the show were powerless to do anything about their dysfunctional lives, and could only spend most of their time cutting down the other people (their family, mostly) and their dysfunctions. To me, it ranks right up there with "House" among the shows that just got tiring after a season or so because the main characters didn't seem to have any redeeming qualities.

Guess you have a hard time separating reality and fiction, huh? For the record, I don't think glorifying ANYTHING would deem a show needing to be pulled off the air, I just am calling out the people who are now hating on him because he turned out to be a lot closer to the actual fictional character that they glorified.

And I'm sorry you don't see the difference between drug and alcohol abuse and overeating. When someone overeats, they hurt themselves, and themselves only. It is their choice, and if they don't want to live a long and healthy life, we shouldn't make them. Drug and alcohol abuse, however, has a very high probability of hurting those around said abuser, such as siblings, parents, significant others, and children. It also significantly raises the chance that complete strangers are going to be hurt or killed due to the irresponsible actions (such as being hit by a drunk driver).

I can eat as many double quarter pounders as I want, and that fact alone wouldn't make me hit someone with my car, abuse them, flake out on them emotionally etc. HUGE difference there.

 

[mnradiofan]

Several times on the show they have joked about Charlie Harper doing drugs.

Seems to me they joked about drugs but not about Charlie doing drugs. In the show Charlie Harper is clearly an alcoholic and he is continually being reprimanded by Alan, Berta, Rose, Evelyn, Jake and even most of his "companions". They, and he, are making jokes and deriding his lifestyle. (And much the same goes on about his constant flow of female companions, excepting Mia and Chelsea.) I don't remember an episode where someone doesn't admonish Charlie about his vices.

A far worse example for impressionable viewers, IMHO, is Jake and his eating habits. Although he clearly knows he is doing something unhealthy he goes right ahead anyway. And there is a slightly more subtle message that it's OK to be a non-achiever - a message that is all too frequent in our TV comedies and in our society.

True, but let's not blame TV for our lack of willpower or achieving. TV is only responding to the trends. I spend tons of time watching TV, and I always have, yet I have a fairly successful career. And, while I too make bad food decisions, I do know better. TV didn't make me do either, and actually I'm now starting to watch what I eat and have been losing weight steadily for the past 3 months, yet my TV watching habits haven't changed at all.

I guess my overall message is personal responsibility. I've seen every episode of Two and a Half men, and countless other sitcoms, yet I've educated myself to know the difference between fake and reality, which is my responsibility. I know what I "should" eat, and what I "should" do, and I make my decisions independent of what anyone tells me. For almost 10 years, I smoked, even though I knew it would most likely kill me. I read all the warnings, had all the health classes, and even have friends who are doctors, yet I still did it, and I didn't quit until I was ready to do so. NOBODY can force you to do ANYTHING. If you want to drink, do drugs, and be destructive, nobody, not even a TV network and the threat of losing 2 million a week in income, is going to force you to stop.

I wasn't admonishing the previous poster for his views but rather was providing my opinion of what was being said.

I don't think the broadcast audience is in any way ready (and probably should never be) for any show suggesting illegal drug use is a good thing and I don't see that in 2 1/2.

Personal responsibility is a noble goal but far too many people tend to want to be "cool" and follow the trend (remember the Marlboro Man of decades past?). I imagine that has been the case for humankind over the centuries but we notice it more because of our rapid and widespread communication capability. That isn't to say TV/radio have a responsibility not to broadcast edgy material but it is definitely a fine line. I think if you have to ask the question, it probably is and doesn't belong on the air.

I guess this country, overall, is dumber than I give it credit for.

 

[landtuna]

How are Jake's self-destructive eating habits any worse for impressionable viewers than Charlie's self-destructive drinking habits?

Anyone who has raised teenage boys can attest to the fact that most never quit eating. Although Jake was a bit of a plumpster early in the series he doesn't look any different than most boys his age now. Bottom line: if there are viewers out there that cannot separate fantasy TV from real life they should be locked away so as not to hurt themselves.

As for Charlie's drinking.....I grew up with an alcoholic father so you would think this series wouldn't be one of my favorites. But it is. Because most of the humor revolving around Charlie's drinking shows the nasty effects of too much booze. He thinks he's having a good time but everybody around him can see the difference. And so can viewers.

 

[vchimpanzee]

All he did was write a jingle, wasn't it?

Many jingles. And when he nearly went broke, somehow he ended up writing an album of children's songs. And you know his off-color sense of humor. Nevertheless, it was a hit.

 

[landtuna]

And when he nearly went broke, somehow he ended up writing an album of children's songs. And you know his off-color sense of humor. Nevertheless, it was a hit.

That "Charlie Waffles" episode was one of the funniest in the whole series.

 

[LKellerIII]

And when he nearly went broke, somehow he ended up writing an album of children's songs. And you know his off-color sense of humor. Nevertheless, it was a hit.

That "Charlie Waffles" episode was one of the funniest in the whole series.

Agreed. My 2 older kids were little in the late 80s, when every parent was expected to take their kids to see concerts by Raffi, and a couple of other musicians who did kid's songs. I love my children, but those concerts were excruciating.

Of course, Raffi and his ilk wrote songs with wholesome lyrics, unlike Charlie Waffles. If I remember, most of Charlie's songs were about bodily functions. Maybe I'm crude myself, but I was on the floor laughing for most of that episode.

 

[landtuna]

And when he nearly went broke, somehow he ended up writing an album of children's songs. And you know his off-color sense of humor. Nevertheless, it was a hit.

That "Charlie Waffles" episode was one of the funniest in the whole series.

Agreed. My 2 older kids were little in the late 80s, when every parent was expected to take their kids to see concerts by Raffi, and a couple of other musicians who did kid's songs. I love my children, but those concerts were excruciating.

Of course, Raffi and his ilk wrote songs with wholesome lyrics, unlike Charlie Waffles. If I remember, most of Charlie's songs were about bodily functions. Maybe I'm crude myself, but I was on the floor laughing for most of that episode.

Me too. Those songs were exactly the kind of thing my boys would have found very humorous back when they were little.

Even my wifey (She Who Never Grins) gave it up for that episode.

Do you know where we can buy the CD? ;D

 

[quadraphonic]

Guess you have a hard time separating reality and fiction, huh?

Yea. It's a struggle. Thanks for asking.

And I'm sorry you don't see the difference between drug and alcohol abuse and overeating.
...lHUGE difference there.

I'm pretty sure I said that glorifying the drinking and the dysfunctional child-rearing was worse than glorifying his overeating.
I might be having trouble separating fiction from reality, though, you might not wanna quote me on that one (since you got it wrong the first time )...