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WING Aircheck

Based on the content of the WING aircheck, it sounds like March, 1968. Too bad the newscast was clipped (although the news bulletin about Dunbar High School was left in) as that should have helped to determine a more exact date.

According to on-line information, this is the same Fred Winston who worked at WLS as well as WCFL in Chicago. He was also at KQV in Pittsburgh and WKYC in Cleveland. One on-line source indicates his voice is heard in the movie, "Ferris Beuller's Day Off" which is set in Chicago.
 
Excellent aircheck! And, yes it is, if not from March of '68 right around that time, definitely spring which would have had the station playing songs like "Mighty Quinn" and "Dance To The Music" as currents.

About 9 or 10 years ago, I had the chance to meet Fred during his time working as PM Drive Jock on The Eighties Channel in Chicago. I had met that day with their PD and he took me around and introduced me to the staff. Fred had a good laugh with me - he didn't think anyone remembered him working on WING.

Of course, every time I hear an old aircheck of WING, I am amazed by the number of total "stiffs" the station played (songs that made it to, say, #24 on the survey before dying a quick and painless death). But, that's gonna happen with a 40 plus record current list.
 
Reference: WOXR Station ID from - Johnsandor.com/media/woxr ID- This ID was
made in 1968 in the little WOXR 97.7 production room. It was a pimp-job against
WING Radios Don Robertson ( we called him mushmouth ) WING had a station ID
on the air at the time just like this etc; this was in the day when Steve Kirk would
start his show off in the morning with 15 minutes of him and Chris Cage talking
about stuff...Very funny - they were.....
About the ID .....little WOXR....That was or is --- Dave Michaels doing a Don
Robertson inpersonation. He recorded that over a Drake Explosion from a reel
to reel machine --- directly into a Webcaster play-record cart machine. You
had to be fast with the hands. Even Rick Sellers liked it, and he didn't like
anything ! So there you have the skivvy. They dubbed a backup Copy on a
five inch reel for redubbing if needed. Where the guy found that tape is a
mystery. Quality on playback from 68 is not bad..... that was when radio
was run....money didn't matter...thoes were the days....but they too would
end...but thats OK...."its the natural progression of things"....nothing is
forever. To accept the natural progression of things; your life , your knowing
when to call it quits is a Healthy outlook to have on life and to move on
to other things that interest you. Radio is NOT the above all, be all ,
everthing in ones life......unless you are maybe in your 20's and still a
radio-geek not quite done - fully cooked person. Than maybe you loose
your identity, and turn into a 66-67-68 year old man child who has no
real Identity other than radio. Now that would be a sad statement to make
about someone. No I am not a mental health expert. Its just my opinion.
Its not right, and its not wrong------its just an opinion. You can NOT
agree with me, and thats OK......thats your opinion......
 
Thanks for the Fred Winston WING aircheck...Loved the PAMS jingles..sounds as if it's about its sometime around 1967-68...remember the 20/20 news intro/outro.

This was WING at its best.

Send this one to the Dayton Broadcast Hall of Fame website.

Hope you find more classic WING-dings.
 
That was indeed the same Fred Winston who moved on to WLS after his early 70s stint at 'CK. He later returned to the Big 8 in the late 70s.

Also loved the Tralla Hart vocals on the PAMS "funnnnnnnnn" jingles.

Groovy!

Thanks
 
I don't remember Fred Winston at CKLW unless he went by a different name or possibly did late or overnights. The 440: Satisfaction entry for him mentions neither WING or CKLW
 
The "Fred Winston" that worked at WING - Dayton and WLS
Chicago ...... NEVER worked at CKLW !
Thats a fact - jack !
Unless he used another name,another voice !!!!! LOL
 
Of course, every time I hear an old aircheck of WING, I am amazed by the number of total "stiffs" the station played (songs that made it to, say, #24 on the survey before dying a quick and painless death). But, that's gonna happen with a 40 plus record current list.
Click to expand...
That would be National Stiffs, Jason. WING introduced music to its audience. It was the ONLY source for us kiddies to find out what new songs were out there. WING, like WCOL and WSAI had to play songs first and see the reaction. It was a MUCH different world then.

That is one of the reasons that CKLW was so revered. Rosalie and that gang had the best set of ears anywhere.

Thanks to whoever posted this. I ALWAYS wanted to work at WING!!!!
 
My pipe dream was also to be a WING Lively Guy. Gene "By Golly' and Kirkie were my heroes during my pre-teens and early teens.

How I wished I would have been inside that showcase window studio on West First Street!


BTW:
Cut Limp a little slack. I think I heard Winston on 'CK at least once in my teens as well....or he may have referred to Ted "The Bear" Richards...who both had powerful on-air deliveries.
 
radioboymark said:
Of course, every time I hear an old aircheck of WING, I am amazed by the number of total "stiffs" the station played (songs that made it to, say, #24 on the survey before dying a quick and painless death). But, that's gonna happen with a 40 plus record current list.
Click to expand...
That would be National Stiffs, Jason. WING introduced music to its audience. It was the ONLY source for us kiddies to find out what new songs were out there. WING, like WCOL and WSAI had to play songs first and see the reaction. It was a MUCH different world then.

That is one of the reasons that CKLW was so revered. Rosalie and that gang had the best set of ears anywhere.

Thanks to whoever posted this. I ALWAYS wanted to work at WING!!!!
Click to expand...

Hi, Mark:

It's always good to hear from you, my friend. I suppose I should have added some context to my comment.

I have no argument with you and I understand where you're coming from. Sure, Top 40 stations in those days used "gut instinct" far more than it is allowed today to determine what to play. Sometimes they hit the mark, and other times they missed. It's understandable.

Of course, as you know, some big AM top 40 stations began to trim their lists around 1968-1970 or so to 30 songs, 20...or even less. I even remember seeing a survey of WING with a 25 record list. (Not for long, but they did publish one.)

And, I'll agree with you on another point - though I came in at the very tail end of WING's run as a music station, it was sure fun to work there. Maybe I can't claim this fully, but I still like to consider myself among the last of the WING "lively guys". (Even though I borrowed your old air name...er, uh...I guess I still am.)

Even when I was in that studio at 717 East David at 3 in the morning, the reverb, the AM stereo, the "sound" you heard in the headphones (and I know you can relate) - it brought the 60's and 70's all back. It was one of the favorite jobs I ever had. I didn't care that I was (for awhile) the "overnight" jock. I was on WING...that was all that mattered. And working with Kirkie was a blast.

And frankly, I still don't think Great Trails ever really understood why it came apart. Sure, FM Oldies played a big part, but WING was not just a music station. It was a music, news and information station.
GTB, in my humble opinion, either forgot that, never knew it, or just got too broke to care.
 
Jason - Listened to your station driving down I-675 on my way back to EVV from Springfield on New Years Eve.. enjoyed the music and hope you let me pull a shift next time I'm in town.

To respond, Great Trails as a company was a non entity. The success of their stations came from the efforts of the local manager. Steve Joos ran WIZE when I was a newbie and did a great job keeping a small market station tight and cooking. WING suffered from it's own success and hubris (remember Adult Radio? WING started using that liner after WGTZ signed on.) or it could have evolved the same way WKRC or others did.

When did Mike Joseph introduce Hot Hits around the country? That's one of the times that tight playlists hit (but I think that was later than 1968). Don't pay any attention to how many songs were on the printed chart. Many weeks, Q102 published a Top 30 or so, but we were only playing about 15 currents.

I never was in the studio at 717 E David, and for that I will never forgive you for rubbing it in.... ;). Have a great day..
 
radioboymark said:
When did Mike Joseph introduce Hot Hits around the country? That's one of the times that tight playlists hit (but I think that was later than 1968). Don't pay any attention to how many songs were on the printed chart. Many weeks, Q102 published a Top 30 or so, but we were only playing about 15 currents.
Click to expand...

I have some old Q-102 survey bookmarks from 1979 that had a top 30 or 40 (plus extras). But I remember in the mid-'80s, I estimated that they were only playing about 25 currents, when WCLU was probably playing about 40 or 50.
 
radioboymark said:
Jason - Listened to your station driving down I-675 on my way back to EVV from Springfield on New Years Eve.. enjoyed the music and hope you let me pull a shift next time I'm in town.

To respond, Great Trails as a company was a non entity. The success of their stations came from the efforts of the local manager. Steve Joos ran WIZE when I was a newbie and did a great job keeping a small market station tight and cooking. WING suffered from it's own success and hubris (remember Adult Radio? WING started using that liner after WGTZ signed on.) or it could have evolved the same way WKRC or others did.

When did Mike Joseph introduce Hot Hits around the country? That's one of the times that tight playlists hit (but I think that was later than 1968). Don't pay any attention to how many songs were on the printed chart. Many weeks, Q102 published a Top 30 or so, but we were only playing about 15 currents.

I never was in the studio at 717 E David, and for that I will never forgive you for rubbing it in.... ;). Have a great day..
Click to expand...

Hey, Mark!

Thanks for listening! I appreciate the comments.

Oh boy, do I remember "Adult Radio 1410", what a turkey that was. But, AM stations of that particular time period were trying to distance themselves from the "kids" and tried to prove to advertisers that "we're really a 25-54 station". In the end, the wimpy music drove the kids away leaving the adults and lower shares. The kids, if they hadn't left for FM already, (like I did to some extent around, say, 1971 or so only to discover some station playing top 40 at 104.7 FM) moved 'cause that was the last straw.

It would have been interesting had WING re-invented itself like WKRC and, later WLW did.

My take on GTB, having worked there is along the lines that you speak. With all due respects to Alex Williams and Clark Davis (should they ever read this), I never had the impression they ever had a good "feel" for why WING worked when it did. WING was a "full service" station that was at it's best when it was allowed to be "full service". Randy Michaels understood this with both WKRC and WLW. GTB looked at "full service" eventually as a needless expense.

When they first went oldies in the mid to late 80's, WING was screwing it up big time. Trying to say "we're the station you grew up with", playing Sammy Davis, Junior and Dean Martin during the day. It was an automatic disconnect with the people who grew up with WING. WING was a top 40 station. Period. As an oldies station, it should have been rock and roll from the git-go. (It was just as silly when WING-FM used the same positioning, but playing Led Zeppelin and other "classic rock"...That wasn't WING ever.)

Then, a PD change was made and I was directed to rebuild the music library. Initially, I did it with my own record collection, but we eventually carted from CD's, once we got a trade. That was fun. I went to a CD store one day and spent about 2-grand, buying every legitimate "greatest hits" package I could. Too bad WING never took care of their record collection like WCOL in Columbus did. When I went there in 1990, WCOL still had darned near every 45 they ever played, complete with an index card catalog of every song. (Sorry, record collectors: that library got sold to a collectible store in the mid 90's).

What happened? Getting the music straightened out took the station from a 1.9 or so 12 plus to a 3.4.
At least WING had a detectable pulse then. But, the budget hardly increased. We wanted to increase the size of the news department and bring back news/sports, etc. in the evening, but that was a no-go by management. Too bad. It just might have worked. And a fatter news department in the morning would have helped Kirkie, too. He was at his best whenever he had people to bounce his material from. Nobody seemed to "get" that at GTB. (Or else, by then, the financial problems they were having were too formidable.)
Then, when your alma-mater, the former WDJX went oldies, instead of programming to "strengths", GTB hired a consultant who told us to play "10 great oldies in a row every hour after 9 am". We went straight in the dumper...and shortly went satellite. It was frustrating, to say the least, but, oh well...

I'm not disagreeing, but I remember seeing somewhere that some stations in major markets dabbled with tighter lists in the late 60's/early 70's. And, since I saw WING surveys back then with shorter lists, that's where I may have made the connection. So, you could very well be right on that account.

If I am recalling correctly, Mike Joseph and "Hot Hits" was an 80's thing. But, I could be off by a couple of years.

When I was a kid, I managed one time to get a copy of the record "sales report" that WING would send into record stores to help them tabulate their charts. It was interesting, to say the least. At least they did try and come up with a legitimate, local survey (which was, of course, only as good as the record store manager who was supposed to fill the thing out).

And, not to rub it in...(well, not much anyway), but looking out the big picture windows at the towers late at night at 717 East David was pretty cool. :)

I could tell a WING overnight story that happened to me that could have gotten me a death sentence from the FCC (or, at least Alex)...but I'm already way off topic here!
 
radioboymark said:
To respond, Great Trails as a company was a non entity. The success of their stations came from the efforts of the local manager.
Click to expand...
You're the pro, but from a listener's standpoint they must have done something right. All of their stations (WKLO, WING, WIZE, WCOL ... and later WXGT and WGTZ) had a great upbeat Top-40 sound and they were all fun to listen to in their heyday. One thing that most bummed me out was when the plug was pulled on 92-X as a Top-40 station ... shortly afterward, I moved in Cincinnati and one of my best memories was being able to get my "fix" of that same sound with Z-93.

If you go back to the 60's all of the great stations had kind of the same upbeat sound. WIXY-Cleveland, most of the ABC O&O stations, etc. I know the music has changed, but why can't anybody do a Top-40 station that way anymore? Why does everthing have to sound so whitebread these days?
 
Jason Roberts said:
radioboymark said:
Jason - Listened to your station driving down I-675 on my way back to EVV from Springfield on New Years Eve.. enjoyed the music and hope you let me pull a shift next time I'm in town.

To respond, Great Trails as a company was a non entity. The success of their stations came from the efforts of the local manager. Steve Joos ran WIZE when I was a newbie and did a great job keeping a small market station tight and cooking. WING suffered from it's own success and hubris (remember Adult Radio? WING started using that liner after WGTZ signed on.) or it could have evolved the same way WKRC or others did.

When did Mike Joseph introduce Hot Hits around the country? That's one of the times that tight playlists hit (but I think that was later than 1968). Don't pay any attention to how many songs were on the printed chart. Many weeks, Q102 published a Top 30 or so, but we were only playing about 15 currents.

I never was in the studio at 717 E David, and for that I will never forgive you for rubbing it in.... ;). Have a great day..
Click to expand...

Hey, Mark!

Thanks for listening! I appreciate the comments.

Oh boy, do I remember "Adult Radio 1410", what a turkey that was. But, AM stations of that particular time period were trying to distance themselves from the "kids" and tried to prove to advertisers that "we're really a 25-54 station". In the end, the wimpy music drove the kids away leaving the adults and lower shares. The kids, if they hadn't left for FM already, (like I did to some extent around, say, 1971 or so only to discover some station playing top 40 at 104.7 FM) moved 'cause that was the last straw.

It would have been interesting had WING re-invented itself like WKRC and, later WLW did.

My take on GTB, having worked there is along the lines that you speak. With all due respects to Alex Williams and Clark Davis (should they ever read this), I never had the impression they ever had a good "feel" for why WING worked when it did. WING was a "full service" station that was at it's best when it was allowed to be "full service". Randy Michaels understood this with both WKRC and WLW. GTB looked at "full service" eventually as a needless expense.

When they first went oldies in the mid to late 80's, WING was screwing it up big time. Trying to say "we're the station you grew up with", playing Sammy Davis, Junior and Dean Martin during the day. It was an automatic disconnect with the people who grew up with WING. WING was a top 40 station. Period. As an oldies station, it should have been rock and roll from the git-go. (It was just as silly when WING-FM used the same positioning, but playing Led Zeppelin and other "classic rock"...That wasn't WING ever.)

Then, a PD change was made and I was directed to rebuild the music library. Initially, I did it with my own record collection, but we eventually carted from CD's, once we got a trade. That was fun. I went to a CD store one day and spent about 2-grand, buying every legitimate "greatest hits" package I could. Too bad WING never took care of their record collection like WCOL in Columbus did. When I went there in 1990, WCOL still had darned near every 45 they ever played, complete with an index card catalog of every song. (Sorry, record collectors: that library got sold to a collectible store in the mid 90's).

What happened? Getting the music straightened out took the station from a 1.9 or so 12 plus to a 3.4.
At least WING had a detectable pulse then. But, the budget hardly increased. We wanted to increase the size of the news department and bring back news/sports, etc. in the evening, but that was a no-go by management. Too bad. It just might have worked. And a fatter news department in the morning would have helped Kirkie, too. He was at his best whenever he had people to bounce his material from. Nobody seemed to "get" that at GTB. (Or else, by then, the financial problems they were having were too formidable.)
Then, when your alma-mater, the former WDJX went oldies, instead of programming to "strengths", GTB hired a consultant who told us to play "10 great oldies in a row every hour after 9 am". We went straight in the dumper...and shortly went satellite. It was frustrating, to say the least, but, oh well...

I'm not disagreeing, but I remember seeing somewhere that some stations in major markets dabbled with tighter lists in the late 60's/early 70's. And, since I saw WING surveys back then with shorter lists, that's where I may have made the connection. So, you could very well be right on that account.

If I am recalling correctly, Mike Joseph and "Hot Hits" was an 80's thing. But, I could be off by a couple of years.

When I was a kid, I managed one time to get a copy of the record "sales report" that WING would send into record stores to help them tabulate their charts. It was interesting, to say the least. At least they did try and come up with a legitimate, local survey (which was, of course, only as good as the record store manager who was supposed to fill the thing out).

And, not to rub it in...(well, not much anyway), but looking out the big picture windows at the towers late at night at 717 East David was pretty cool. :)

I could tell a WING overnight story that happened to me that could have gotten me a death sentence from the FCC (or, at least Alex)...but I'm already way off topic here!
Click to expand...

Wow, wow, and wow! Great stories from the past at 717 E. David Rd. Any stories from when you did 10P-2A on Z-93 in '90?
I wonder if they kept all of their music library that you put together for WING-AM. Also wonder if the entire Z-93 music library from that station is still there...Also the WING-FM music library.
The big window is pretty cool, at least looking out from the 'GTZ studio...I have actually been in 92.9's studios as both Z-93 and Fly 92.9. I was told that the 'GTZ studio was remodeled sometime in 2000 or so. Everything was reversed inside when they remodeled it...the entire console was shifted in the opposite direction than it was before. I was last in there in early October of last year. If you're in the air chair it's real easy for someone to sneak in the studio behind you and scare you to death if you're not careful. ;D
I also miss the reverb on 92.9 in the mic. I believe Will Bevis, the engineer at the time, was the genius behind that if i'm not mistaken.
 
hdtvnewbie said:
radioboymark said:
To respond, Great Trails as a company was a non entity. The success of their stations came from the efforts of the local manager.
Click to expand...
You're the pro, but from a listener's standpoint they must have done something right. All of their stations (WKLO, WING, WIZE, WCOL ... and later WXGT and WGTZ) had a great upbeat Top-40 sound and they were all fun to listen to in their heyday. One thing that most bummed me out was when the plug was pulled on 92-X as a Top-40 station ... shortly afterward, I moved in Cincinnati and one of my best memories was being able to get my "fix" of that same sound with Z-93.

If you go back to the 60's all of the great stations had kind of the same upbeat sound. WIXY-Cleveland, most of the ABC O&O stations, etc. I know the music has changed, but why can't anybody do a Top-40 station that way anymore? Why does everthing have to sound so whitebread these days?
Click to expand...

I understand what Mark's talking about here, and he can comment as he wishes, but I'll go to bat here now.

GTB was a respected company in its heyday, to be certain. When Jim Bennett, for instance, ran WING the station was one of the highest billing stations based on market size in the nation. Steve Joos, likewise with WIZE. It may have been a small town station, but when it was pumping, it was nicely profitable and it was the "DJ proving ground" for stations in their bigger markets. I know WKLO was big (not only did I hear it firsthand, but if you'd like to hear what it was like, check out the tribute page on the internet. WCOL is a legend to a generation of Columbus listeners. WXGT had it's day, too. For a while, it kicked WNCI's butt. Until, that is, WNCI got smart. I don't think that was so much the company (GTB), as it was the effect of the local managers and staffs. Most of the managers back then were told to do what they did best, as long as it worked, headquarters pretty much let the managers run the show.

But times changed. By the time I got to the company in the mid 1980's, it was suggested GTB was 40 million in the red. One by one, the bigger markets got sold. Unfortunately, these were the days before the unbelievable multiples stations were sold by a decade or so later. The better multiples of the 90's (and later) might have helped back then if they could have happened.

The format on 92X changed simply because Nationwide dug in it's heels and decided to defend WNCI with its' wallet to the death. With the debt level they were servicing, GTB simply couldn't afford to run a CHR in Columbus, when every promotion they did got one-upped by WNCI. (And that was intentional. Anyone who's ever spoken with former PD Dave Robbins knows this.) Oldies could be done far cheaper. And, in most cases, you'd only see one such station in the market. Oops. WBNS-FM tried to capitalize on GTB's financial problems by launching Oldies 97-1 to try and run GTB out of the oldies market. That it didn't work was more a credit to the local manager and the people who worked so fervently to make WCOL-FM work. We were given some (but not a lot of) promotional monies, and we made it work on a wing and a prayer and smoke and mirrors.

What's interesting here was: the market for a full-signaled country station was there in 1990. GTB didn't go after it...and neither did 'BNS. When Nationwide bought WCOL in 1994, it knew about the huge hole, and filled it. It would have been interesting to see what might have happened had WCOL-FM gone country in 1990 (at the start of the big country boom then.)

WING was apparently put on the bird when the decision was deemed that it was necessary to put all available promotional monies (and then some) into Z-93, lest a competitor try to do to it what WNCI did to 92X. It worked, too (Z-93 had a 12 share back then), but it was sad that the company was unable to put money into WING back when there could have been a rebuilding of the station around a full-service image where the station could have been a "news station" that filled time in between by playing music. In some respects, this is what the WKRC's and WLW's did successfully for quite a while, until it was obvious AM had to go all talk.

As far as doing things "the old way" goes: CHR is no longer the wide-ranging format it once was. You have to narrowcast a lot more, in most cases. All this, the result of a lot more stations coming on the air in virtually every market. Market compression takes its toll. Even if once could, let's hypothesize here, buy WING and go completely back to doing it the old way, it would be tough, if not impossible. No one under 45 listens to AM anymore, and the 55 plus audience is hard, if not impossible, to sell. I doubt a 15 year old could be convinced to listen to a 21st century version of WING. Times have just changed.

Now, many CHR's might be improved with more attention to "stationality". (That's kind of what you're saying when you suggest a turn away from what you called "whitebread" programming). But, for many stations, the numbers and the listeners are there, and there's little reason to change, if it's working. Yes, it's a down market for advertising, but the economy is most of the reason for that, not programming. And some of the latest numbers I saw showed some mild growth in audience levels among younger listeners, most of which still say they get their first tastes of "new music" on radio.

Sorry for the long post, but it's a very complicated story to tell. And that's just from the perspective of one who saw it...but wasn't in the manager's offices. It's just what I learned over the years.
 
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