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Winter 2015
- Thread starter tbolt909
- Start date
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dand5780
Guest
They (WBEN) look to be about the same as they were about 10 years ago, with some quick searching. Not sure why the numbers are never posted here. It's a secret, I guess, so people believe they "continue" to decline.
WBEN maintained the same numbers that they had in the Fall book - which was helped by the November storm. WHTT continues to grow steadily. Kiss had a rough book. Star returned to its average after a bump in the fall book. Jack seems to be fading. Alternative 107.7 had a small uptick, but it's too early to tell if they actually are finding an audience.
Of course, this is all based on the 12+ beauty pageant numbers. Check 'em out for yourself at:
http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb037
Of course, this is all based on the 12+ beauty pageant numbers. Check 'em out for yourself at:
http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb037
Thanks for the link, SR. Is Jack's format still relevant? WHTT and 97 Rock appear to have survived the challenge that Jack once presented.
I also expected a decent spike for 'BEN this book. This was one of the more horrendous winters we've had in quite some time, with historically low temps.
Just more evidence that they have an incredibly loyal core, and while very top-heavy demographically, they will not disappear ratings-wise anytime soon, as their core will only leave through attrition (wink wink). Either that or PPM comes to Buffalo and immediately halves their audience in the first book. lol
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dand5780
Guest
I like WBUF. Their music has changed recently though. I like WWWS is listed as Alternative with no owner. As far as I know, they still belong to Entercom.
WBEN at 9.0. This way we can keep track for next year, when the number disappears.
Here are the stations in Rochester
http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb079
They don't exactly disappear, dand. Just search "WBEN Ratings" and I'm sure you find previous posts with plenty of past numbers.
Speaking of Rochester, what in the world did WCMF do over the course of three books to go 2-5-2 the way it did???
Seriously? Check some of my previous posts.
Again, WYRK is #1 Persons 12+ and quite likely, tops in most of the key demos. Why? Because country is cool and contemporary. Because it's a good station. Because WYRK super-serves its clientele. The fact that it has no serious U.S. challenger on the FM band doesn't hurt. (WXRL-AM and the new low power country FM from across the river can't compete on equal footing.)
Although meaningless, the 12+ has a few surprises: Kiss and Star slipping as much as they did? 97 Rock bested by its Classic Hits sister? WBUF with its weakest showing and WGR, which has done well with the Sabres in previous Winter books, slipping, perhaps as a result of the team tanking the season?
Alt 107.7 looks modestly better, and seems to be getting attention from the local print guys who write about bands that few of us will remember in five years, but the station is likeable because it's plays songs that aren't 40 years old. Could it be that Alt107.7 nibbled from its sister Kiss' plate, and Mix nicked Kiss and Star's dessert plate? Mix is sounding pretty good, musically, and the jocks are energetic and youthful-adult. Meaning young but not vapid.
Maybe 107.7 stole a few ears from Jack? Can you imagine a different format on 92.9? It doesn't have to be live, but being live in morning and afternoon drive wouldn't be a bad idea if the format is right and the jocks know how to work it. Sure, bring Alice back. I'm only half kidding. Highly unlikely. Jack has low overhead and even with marginal ratings, delivers better margins than half the stations in Buffalo. Town Square isn't going to add staff.
WBEN retained its strength, at least 12+, probably due to it's listeners' inability to tune their radios to any other frequency, as proven by the station's failure to convert on 107.7. WBEN might have received a bump from the bitter February cold, without which it might have slipped. And what happened to the plan to get WBEN on the market's best translator signal @ 104.7, which at last check, remains Christian Contemporary?
As always, it's pure speculation, but at least it gives this board a pulse, weak as it may be.
In this thread? No. That's what I was talking about, and you hadn't posted until now. Finally, someone who listens to more than talk. And I agree with your assessment about WYRK. It's a good station that plays good music. Some here thought they'd lose some points when they let go of a veteran mid-day talent and started carrying a syndicated evening show. But they kept the numbers because of heritage, great music, and relatable talent (even if it's not all local).
Townsquare is making a ton of money from digital and concerts, basically following the IHeart model. (One wonders if IHeart might be profitable if it could somehow get rid of the $20 billion boat anchor.) These two platforms help drive listeners to the radio signal, and work together as a holy trinity. It really shows the future of radio. Congrats to WYRK.
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dand5780
Guest
#1 is WYRK. This is tolerable. Most of Buffalo music stations are terrible, so this isn't saying much. I'm not sure who is listening because when you ask someone what kind of music they like, the answer is almost always "anything but country." I like country but I'd say it's my second choice.
#3 is WBLK. Are you kidding me? This is worse than WBFO.
#4 is WHTT. This is my favorite music station, but I don't care for Lacey.
#6 WGR. Maybe if the Sabres could win a game, I'd listen.
#7 WKSE. This is second last to WBLK as far as music goes, in my opinion.
#8 WTSS. Used to be decent and similar to WJYE.
#9 WMSX. When it was WJYE maybe 10 years ago, it was good.
#10 WEDG. Surprised this is so low. I don't listen myself but I know of some that listen, and I've heard Shredd & Ragan and they are pretty good.
#11 WBUF. Another one I'm surprised is so low. This is one I listen to, and I think the music is even better than it used to be.
#12 WLKK. I liked the Lake, and of course the WBEN simulcast that you could pick up in the downtown hooded area.
#13 WWWS. Not bad for music. No drama from a Laura Daniels or Rob Lucas, or unwanted opinions from a Bill Lacey.
#14 WWKB. Mostly sports now, very few talk shows left. "Let's Talk Native" is the only reason I would ever tune in, and that's rare. I listened much more when it was "progressive" talk. Randi Rhodes, Bill Press.
Wouldn't mind seeing where WBFO ranks. I know they came up short in their panhandling though.
WJJL is another one that is good, the morning drive anyway. Haven't had a chance to listen to the 9am show, Viewpoint. I do, however, prefer hearing songs in a language I know. Is Pine Avenue really still "Little Italy?" And is that why they play Italian? Who knows.
WECK not bad, not great.
There you go. Not much more to talk about here, than, well, talk. Or actually, news/talk.
#3 is WBLK. Are you kidding me? This is worse than WBFO.
#4 is WHTT. This is my favorite music station, but I don't care for Lacey.
#6 WGR. Maybe if the Sabres could win a game, I'd listen.
#7 WKSE. This is second last to WBLK as far as music goes, in my opinion.
#8 WTSS. Used to be decent and similar to WJYE.
#9 WMSX. When it was WJYE maybe 10 years ago, it was good.
#10 WEDG. Surprised this is so low. I don't listen myself but I know of some that listen, and I've heard Shredd & Ragan and they are pretty good.
#11 WBUF. Another one I'm surprised is so low. This is one I listen to, and I think the music is even better than it used to be.
#12 WLKK. I liked the Lake, and of course the WBEN simulcast that you could pick up in the downtown hooded area.
#13 WWWS. Not bad for music. No drama from a Laura Daniels or Rob Lucas, or unwanted opinions from a Bill Lacey.
#14 WWKB. Mostly sports now, very few talk shows left. "Let's Talk Native" is the only reason I would ever tune in, and that's rare. I listened much more when it was "progressive" talk. Randi Rhodes, Bill Press.
Wouldn't mind seeing where WBFO ranks. I know they came up short in their panhandling though.
WJJL is another one that is good, the morning drive anyway. Haven't had a chance to listen to the 9am show, Viewpoint. I do, however, prefer hearing songs in a language I know. Is Pine Avenue really still "Little Italy?" And is that why they play Italian? Who knows.
WECK not bad, not great.
There you go. Not much more to talk about here, than, well, talk. Or actually, news/talk.
Good point.
It is hard to believe that they saw NOTHING from the incredibly awful winter this year. Maybe that 9 share includes a nice bump.
Dand5780, we've had to put up with your ill-informed opinions about WBFO. I will point out that WBFO today earned 13 nominations for news awards in the AP 2014 competition, the most of any radio station in New York State. Your favorite radio station had three. Yet, that's not the reason I'm writing. I take issue when you start criticizing someone of the integrity of my friends Bill Lacy. Who are you? You're probably a nothing who has no accomplishments on your resume. Bill is a Hall of Famer. So, crawl back into your right wing hole and spare the rest of us of your stupid analysis.
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You have to be amused at the irony of trying to debunk WBEN-rightwing-fed misinformation posted to a radio industry forum by an obvious WBEN fan.
Herein lies the problem newstalk faces on a national level: With few exceptions, after having pandered for years to the mentality of their gullible core, who still mostly believe Obama was born in Kenya, the format is withering away. You cannot blame the AM band for this. The problem is purely content related. That out-of-touch, tinfoil hat, birther nonsense is so boring and predicatble. Oh, and really stupid on top of it.
WBFO is good. Very professional and informational, but I do miss the passion of long ago talkradio where you heard entertaining personalities who had varied opinions---instead of a schedule made up of partisan hack after partisan hack---all pushing the same antiquated agenda. Then again, lazy and shortsighted programmers rule the roost these days.
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While I largely agree with you, Fly, it's indicative of the state of radio today. How many radio stations are held by venture capitalists who got snookered in the mega-consolidations days before 2008, and have now become operators because there's no way to get out of the business with the profit they thought was waiting to be reaped by a quick sale or IPO after the mega-group was conglomerated? iHeart is about the only one who hasn't gone through a bankruptcy. Cumulus and Town Square have, but follow the lead of iHeart in "how to maximize profit".
So, what's that mean for AMs that built a reputation over decades as the "go-to" station for news and information? They still have a cadre of upper-demo listeners who think that they still have full-service news departments and well-researched, "fair and balanced" commentary. Yes, you can fool some of the people all of the time. They apparently make up about 10% of the listening audience.
We'll get cheap-and-dirty blather as long as the money keeps flowing. Rush Limbaugh almost blew up the format with his "slut-shaming", and there are still left wingers trying to punish stations that carry Rush. Like most on the far left, they're more interested in tearing down a successful franchise than they are in building one of their own. That's why left-wing talk has languished. It's easier to complain about somebody else than it is to compete with them.
Eventually the formula the keeps a few dominant AMs near the top of the ratings with falter. Then they're likely to end up on a computer in a closet, repeating syndicated content to pay the electric bill. Maybe they'll successfully co-opt some successful web stream. Assuming, of course, that we're still broadcasting from towers.
So, what's that mean for AMs that built a reputation over decades as the "go-to" station for news and information? They still have a cadre of upper-demo listeners who think that they still have full-service news departments and well-researched, "fair and balanced" commentary. Yes, you can fool some of the people all of the time. They apparently make up about 10% of the listening audience.
We'll get cheap-and-dirty blather as long as the money keeps flowing. Rush Limbaugh almost blew up the format with his "slut-shaming", and there are still left wingers trying to punish stations that carry Rush. Like most on the far left, they're more interested in tearing down a successful franchise than they are in building one of their own. That's why left-wing talk has languished. It's easier to complain about somebody else than it is to compete with them.
Eventually the formula the keeps a few dominant AMs near the top of the ratings with falter. Then they're likely to end up on a computer in a closet, repeating syndicated content to pay the electric bill. Maybe they'll successfully co-opt some successful web stream. Assuming, of course, that we're still broadcasting from towers.
I listen to WBEN for traffic and local news in the morning. Maybe ten minutes. Not much after 7:30 a.m. I listen to WBFO for longer periods, usually later in the day when my job allows. WBEN has better ratings, at least as far as we can surmise. I guess awards don't necessarily equal ratings.
PPM ratings would be a death blow for WBEN. They benefit from being in a
market that is "old". That makes their 12+ number look much better compared
to what other News/Talk stations get in bigger growing markets.
NPR and WBFO have viable futures.
WBEN can shop for a headstone...
market that is "old". That makes their 12+ number look much better compared
to what other News/Talk stations get in bigger growing markets.
NPR and WBFO have viable futures.
WBEN can shop for a headstone...
I don't know anyone who fits that description. Clear Channel was never a short term investment. Same with the Dickeys. Nobody is looking to get out or do a quick IPO. That was mythology. Everyone wants to stay in for the long haul. Radio is a drug. And every day I read about new multi-billion dollar investment companies that was to get into broadcasting. Just think of how many have come along since 2008. Look at Larry Wilson. He sold Citadel, took his billions and sat out the storm in 2008, and is now rebuilding his empire again. This time he's not wasting his money on 5K AMs. I talked to one of those guys who bought during the boom and sold a station at a loss. I asked him if he had buyer's remorse. He told me that although he lost on the purchase price (which is tax deductible), he made millions in profit every year he owned the station, and that was enough to cover his loss, although spread out so he didn't have to pay the big cap gain tax. So you have to look at a radio station beyond the price of the station. There's all the money you make while you own it, and it all goes in the same pocket. That's what IHeart is doing. They haven't really paid down the debt. They're using the cash flow for operating expenses. They were able to ride out 2008, so they're bulletproof now.
The smart companies are preparing for that eventuality. The writing is on the wall. If the feds are content to let one of the people's resources to fall apart, then that's what will happen. When I was a renter, I never spent money on physical plant. That's the owner's responsibility. Same with AM.
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