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Winter book

B

bobn

Guest
Just talked to a friend at CCU. He said in the winter book, WCMF is #2 25-54 A, and #1 25-54 Men in AM Drive all WIHOUT WEASE! In fact BEE is first, cmf second and buzz third in am drive. Same as in the fall book. People in Midtown are looking for the exits..... Seems that might have misjudged what Wease is worth? Thoughts?
 
bobn said:
People in Midtown are looking for the exits..... Seems that might have misjudged what Wease is worth? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Let's get together a year from now and look at the numbers. That will be the true barometer on how smart or dumb CC was in hiring Wease.
 
I agree, we should know more about how Wease's exit and enterance did by year's end or this time next year.

Otherwise, I'm pleased to see WYSL show up in the ratings again. Somewhat surprised to see WROC went back down, perhaps their fall book rating was a fluke?
 
For those who may not know, the 12+ numbers are available on Arbitron's website, as well as from Radio and Records and All Access.

Looks like The Drive and Fickle both took stumbles; PXY, too. Any thoughts as to why? The Drive is the one that stands out to me. A good, strong signal on 100.5 deserve something with stronger ratings than what they are currently pulling in.
 
It all comes down to sampling, folks.

DKX's numbers shot up, while PXY, Drive, and others fell. WHY? Because Arbitron in their infintie wisdom decided to oversample African-Americans by 32% in the Winter book.

In the Fall survey, only 170 ethinc diaries were counted. For Winter, 225! What happened between the two survey periods?
 
Apropos of the earlier comments on WCMF, whatever the relative rankings of the station in its prime demos may have been, its actual AQH share 12+ was off a full share point in the latest book, showing me Wease's absence has indeed begun to hurt.

You also have to wonder if Warm 101's strong winter book numbers will hold now that the new owner has screwed up the chemistry of one of the area's most successfui morning shows.

The Drive sounds as automated as it is. No human pulse. And in terms of music, what is it? AAA? Active rock? Hot AC? Can't get a handle on it in the limited listening I've done before getting bored with it. If ever a station needed a transplant of live personality, the Drive is it.

Music format stations all over the market seem to be in serious flux. One thing that jumps out at you is the degree to which WDKX just owns the 12-34 demos, urban and suburban, despite its relatively weak signal. They are strong in the way WBBF and WAXC were strong with young listeners in the 70s, and their demographic profile looks markedly similar to what pre-1975 WAXC was doing...and formatically they are almost like the WAXC of the 21st Century, personality and service-driven, fast paced and playing the music young people from all parts of the metro are listening to. They're clearly pulling boatloads of listeners away from the traditional contenders in young demos, 98 PXY and Kiss 106.7. If they had a full-market-coverage Class B signal they might well be #1 12+, and even as it is, they're safely in the top 3. They're just doing a better job of mixing personality, service and the kind of music most under-30s are listening to today. (If I were the Langstons I'd be watching for the next Class B signal to come up on the block--my guess is it'll be from the Clear Channel cluster, maybe the sagging Drive 100.5--and move WDKX's callsign and intellectual property to it, while making the existing 103.9 signal the market's first Latino format station. What a powerhouse that would be, dominating the young market AND the fastest-growing demo in the market all at once.)

Buzz seems to be softening even though it's not falling in relative ranking in the market--wonder if this is at least partly the effect of losing Brian Robinson from the afternoon there? CMF isn't the place for him, the format doesn't let him do enough. He belongs in either a CHR, hot AC or maybe even a hot talk format...or maybe he should be moved to mornings to be the ringmaster of the CMF morning show.

WHAM remains formidable overall on the strength of Chet and Beth in the morning, with Lonsberry, Matthews and the 5 O'Clock News also helping out some. The syndicated stuff they run? Not worth what they're paying for it. No, not even Limbaugh, he's past his peak. Next door in Buffalo WBEN tops the market (and scoots past WYRK) because it is predominantly local from early in the morning to late in the evening. As long as WHAM doesn't do that, it won't be #1. Interesting that no other commercial station is challenging it given its vulnerability--how many markets has a noncomm as its clear #2 news-talker, other than Rochester, and maybe Washington and Boston? In the interest of full personal disclosure, I hope that never changes, of course.... ;)
 
I remember when WVOR was the number # 1 station in Rochester. Now look at it ::)

As for the fallout from the recent firings, re-hiring, and movement of local radio personalities, I'm going to wait and see what the fall and winter books show before making any judgment.

On a personal note, my congratulations go out to my friends and colleagues at WYSL for showing up in the book. I guess this mean's I have to stop by Savoia's before Saturday doesn't it?
 
Wow. There's a few at the top and so many feeders. WCMF is a disaster, train wreck and cluster blank. This is a station, along with 100.5, that used to define the market. Today it's WBEE and WHAM! Can I repeat this for y'all. WBEE and WHAM!

There's not much else here.
 
I remember when WVOR was the number # 1 station in Rochester. Now look at it...

Mark, it's a little sad. I was recently going through old boxes of notes, and found WVOR's numbers from spring 1981. In adults 25-54, we didn't fall below a 20-share in any Mon-Fri daypart! Bud and Jack figured out how to combine the traditional AM service elements and lots of personality with a presentation which left time for plenty of music.

Jack did mornings, Dick Tobias and Beverly did news; they had the market's only traffic helicopter; Rich Funke did sports commentary. All of those were very expensive elements, but the news ran :90, Funke was only given :60.

The lesson was that a well-paid personality earns his money as soon as he opens his mouth and says his name. Management always wants to justify what they pay for talent based on air time, but these guys resisted that trap. (It helped that Palvino was also GM.) The station was both full-service and music-intensive.

Not all of us made good money. (I remember when Don Perry left middays to manage a Wendy's, to make significantly more money.) But what a great operation. Eventually, when they were able to buy WHAM, I think they'd planned to move all the established service elements over there, where they could get away with higher spotloads. I'd left the market by the time they got WHAM, so I'm not sure how all that worked out.

It's great to hear that WDKX hasn't forgotten that you can succeed beyond what your signal would predict by doing it right. All the monster AM Top-40 stations of the 60's and 70's had great news people as part of the package, and it broadened their demos significantly.

BTW, is Jack Palvino still with us?
 
Paul_Warren said:
I remember when WVOR was the number # 1 station in Rochester. Now look at it...

Mark, it's a little sad. I was recently going through old boxes of notes, and found WVOR's numbers from spring 1981. In adults 25-54, we didn't fall below a 20-share in any Mon-Fri daypart! Bud and Jack figured out how to combine the traditional AM service elements and lots of personality with a presentation which left time for plenty of music.

Jack did mornings, Dick Tobias and Beverly did news; they had the market's only traffic helicopter; Rich Funke did sports commentary. All of those were very expensive elements, but the news ran :90, Funke was only given :60.

The lesson was that a well-paid personality earns his money as soon as he opens his mouth and says his name. Management always wants to justify what they pay for talent based on air time, but these guys resisted that trap. (It helped that Palvino was also GM.) The station was both full-service and music-intensive.

Not all of us made good money. (I remember when Don Perry left middays to manage a Wendy's, to make significantly more money.) But what a great operation. Eventually, when they were able to buy WHAM, I think they'd planned to move all the established service elements over there, where they could get away with higher spotloads. I'd left the market by the time they got WHAM, so I'm not sure how all that worked out.

It's great to hear that WDKX hasn't forgotten that you can succeed beyond what your signal would predict by doing it right. All the monster AM Top-40 stations of the 60's and 70's had great news people as part of the package, and it broadened their demos significantly.

BTW, is Jack Palvino still with us?
Click to expand...

Paul:

Yes Jack is still with us, in fact he owns 1460AM which runs a Catholic religious format.
I always admired Jack for his knowledge of the business.

I had the opportunity to interview him at his (former) house by Lake Ontario when I was doing a story about broadcasting while employed at WXXI. Not only could you ask for a nicer host, but the stories he told me about his years in radio; I just wished I had kept that interview for myself to listen to.

It is a shame what happened to WVOR, but as a former WHAM alumus I'm glad to see the station is still doing well. I'm waiting to see the non-commercial ratings and how WXXI did.
Last book they had around a 2 share.
 
To correct one item in Mark's reply to Paul Warren......I don't believe Jack Palvino owns 1460AM, he is managing it for the Diocese.

As Paul stated, the old WVOR was quite a radio station!
 
GSmitty said:
To correct one item in Mark's reply to Paul Warren......I don't believe Jack Palvino owns 1460AM, he is managing it for the Diocese.

As Paul stated, the old WVOR was quite a radio station!
Click to expand...

My mistake Gary, I thought Jack owned the station. And yes, WVOR was one hell of a station. By the way Happy Belated Birthday!
 
Does Jack still live in Rochester, or did he retire down south? I would like to call him and say hello sometime.

I worked at WVOR in the days when Paul was there and also feel sad about the station's decline in recent years. Did another tenant take the old space at 1700 Midtown, or are the abandoned studios still intact? If so, it would be nice to take a few pictures up there before the building is torn down.

Once when I asked for a raise, Jack reminded me that "the view" was one of my fringe benefits. I got a traded-out US Air flight to Los Angeles instead. But he's still a good guy.
 
Jack still lives in Rochester (late spring, summer & fall) - he does head for Florida in the winter.

I believe there were offices in the old WVOR space on the 17th floor of Midtown after the station left. I don't think any remnants of the station remain, except for the auxiliary transmitter that is still up in the "attic."

And thanks Mark for the birthday wishes. It's good to keep having them!
 
WVOR was a fine radio station with great call letters and for a long time, it appeared to have the pulse of the market. The ratings reflected this. However, over the years Warm apparently ate WVOR's lunch.

One of the disturbing points in this generally positive thread is (to paraphrase) "we didn't make a lot of money... but Jack Palvino is a swell guy."

Ohhhhhh Kayyyyyy.

This is going to sound harsh. Jack Palvino is a legend in Rochester. I've met him a few times at broadcaster events and he seemed a decent gentleman. A number of fine and talented people worked at WVOR.

But... but... but I'll bet JP made a good buck... all the while you guys were eating spaghetti and saltines three nights a week and using those Wendy's coupons management had for giveaways at remotes to feed yourself if not your wife and children... all the while saying "Wow, what a great radio station we have... we have a 23 share Persons, 25-54!" Big friggin' whoop!

Meanwhile, Palvino has a house on the lake, a few bucks in the bank and you struggled to pay your rent, your wife worked two jobs and your mom and dad funneled a few bucks to you ever once in a while so you could get your car fixed.

Yup. WVOR had a 25 share. Owned the market. And the jocks got dick.... uh, because it was all about the music. Ratings bonus? How about ratings bone. Radio. What a business.

Again. Apologies. It's just my snapshot of reality.

-9-
 
Well... Jack gave me my first big commercial radio job, just a couple of years after finishing my degree -- and after spending two years working at WVOR, I summed up the situation in terms of money, opportunity for advancement, etc. and decided it would be best to move on to a larger market, so we parted on good terms. That later turned out to be a good decision.

In general, I enjoyed my tenure at WVOR and learned a lot from the experience.

Radio. What a business.
 
Play Freebird said:
Once when I asked for a raise, Jack reminded me that "the view" was one of my fringe benefits. I got a traded-out US Air flight to Los Angeles instead. But he's still a good guy.
Click to expand...

Now I would say that's nice but my landlord doesn't care about "The view" so show me the money! Good that he at least did something for you. The tactic now days when a jock asks for a raise is to string them along until they catch on they aren't going to get anything!

Where we jocks always got into trouble is we romanticize radio way too much. We should have looked at it like the sales guys do, a way to make money. But then we probably would have been a lot more disappointed!
 
I too had a chance to "move up" to WVOR in 86 after 5 years at WECQ and while I only stuck around doing pm drive and asst pd for about six months..I have to say WVOR is a station I always point to when talking about really well run operations. The perfect blend of music, information, personality...remember officer Gar' in the WVOR traffic copter.

Jack and his bunch had if figured out...customized production and jingles cut in house, light spot load, consistant music flow...for a time using a home made music scheduling program Pre Selector, auditorium testing, focus groups all under the watchful eye of the Research Group.

I came on board as Tony I was assuming morning duties...Gary Smith was there....lots of great folks......The atmosphere was a little stuffy, hushed tones, white shirts and ties for the airstaff.....but, yeah the view was great from the control room.

I was too young to want to stick around that kind of a situation for long and soon headed for the south to program in Charlotte....but WVOR, your station with a heart of gold was a great radio station from top to bottom.

As for the pay....well it wasn't huge, but the station was a great platform to use to go on to bigger and better things for me.
 
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