WIP on FM

[DToTheJ]

With 950 ESPN's move to FM via 97.5, all bets are on that 610 WIP will also move to FM at 94.1, ending WYSP's long history as a rock station. (But more importantly, displacing Danny Bonaduce from yet another job.)

But before everyone starts looking forward to the day one turns on 94.1 and heard Eskin and Ike blaring from the speakers, consider this: It's possible for CBS to bring WIP to FM, while keeping WYSP's rock format (and Bonaduce's payroll) intact.

Some have speculated - on this board, and other sources - that CBS would make an offer to Family Radio for their 106.9 frequency, and do a simple swap with WIP at 610 AM. You may recall the big KFRC switch a few years ago in San Francisco, coincidentally involving the very same frequencies.

Can lightning strike twice?

Nah, nevermind. Why rob Peter to pay Paul, or in this case, Danny, right?

 

[DG02816]

Anything is possible in this racket......

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Can lightning strike twice?

Only when WOGL is playing Lou Christie. <grin>

 

[DG02816]

Doing a swap with Harold Camping's crew is possible. But WKDN is a non commercial FM, which would have to be relicensed as a commercial outlet. The reverse would hold for 610......

 

[amfmsw]

Dave...but at 106.9, it doesn't need to be, does it? It's in the commecial band. Same for Princeton's FM.

 

[deepstblu]

Dave...but at 106.9, it doesn't need to be, does it? It's in the commecial band. Same for Princeton's FM.

I'm pretty sure that 106.9 is a commercial allocation, and the FCC would have no reason to refuse a request to switch it to commercial operation.

WPRB has a commercial license, and if you want to buy spots on a station with no ratings they'll gladly sell some to you. I think WNYC (AM) has a commercial license, simply because there were no non-com licenses when they went on the air in the 1920s and they never bothered to change it.

Does having a non-com restriction on a license outside of the 88-92 band actually benefit the licensee in any way?

 

[radiophiler]

OK, here's another scenario for CBS to switch WIP to FM.

WOGL goes to 610 and WIP goes to 98.1.

WOGL's listeners fall into a demographic that would have no problem listening to the music they like on AM. And as far as AM signals go, WIP is one of the best in the market.

WOGL could also end up on 98.1's HD-2 channel if its primary signal goes to AM.


I'll anticipate a couple of counter arguments:

1. WOGL makes too much money to move it to AM. My response: WIP makes WAY too much money for CBS to have it put at a disadvantage because it's on AM and its competitor is on FM.

2. Someone else will put Oldies (Classic Hits) on FM. My response: Ain't gonna happen in a major market like Philly. The demographics aren't right for a major market to put another Classic Hits station on FM. Agencies are only interested in 18-54 (or perhaps as low as 49) in major markets. If the current center of WOGL's music is 1973, someone who graduated from high school in that year will turn 55 in 2010, just above the age demographics agencies care about. If this were a medium or small market where less selling came from agencies, then I could see someone else going Classic Hits. But not in a top 10 market like Philly.

Win-win for CBS: Boost your highly profitable Sports station to FM so it's not at a disadvantage to its competitor. Retain your market exclusivity in the Classic Hits format by putting it on a kick-butt AM signal.

Even if WIP does go directly to 94.1, I think a switch is imminent. The original rumor was that 950's programming would switch to FM on Monday. Greater Media moved it up while the Monday rumor was still fresh. They may have been getting a jump on a similar move by CBS.

 

[qtpieislit]

OK, here's another scenario for CBS to switch WIP to FM.

WOGL goes to 610 and WIP goes to 98.1.

WOGL's listeners fall into a demographic that would have no problem listening to the music they like on AM. And as far as AM signals go, WIP is one of the best in the market.

WOGL could also end up on 98.1's HD-2 channel if its primary signal goes to AM.


I'll anticipate a couple of counter arguments:

1. WOGL makes too much money to move it to AM. My response: WIP makes WAY too much money for CBS to have it put at a disadvantage because it's on AM and its competitor is on FM.

2. Someone else will put Oldies (Classic Hits) on FM. My response: Ain't gonna happen in a major market like Philly. The demographics aren't right for a major market to put another Classic Hits station on FM. Agencies are only interested in 18-54 (or perhaps as low as 49) in major markets. If the current center of WOGL's music is 1973, someone who graduated from high school in that year will turn 55 in 2010, just above the age demographics agencies care about. If this were a medium or small market where less selling came from agencies, then I could see someone else going Classic Hits. But not in a top 10 market like Philly.

Win-win for CBS: Boost your highly profitable Sports station to FM so it's not at a disadvantage to its competitor. Retain your market exclusivity in the Classic Hits format by putting it on a kick-butt AM signal.

Stay off the drugs.

 

[mook]

WOGL was the #1 station 12+, 25-54, and 35-64 in July and consistently ranks in the top five 12+ and 25-54 (in addition to always being #1 35-64), so moving their classic hits to 610 ain't gonna happen, radiophiler. No chance. Plus a large chunk of their listening audience is under 35. There's a good chance those "hipsters" WOULD mind music on AM.

 

[UncleBozzle]

Why move WIP to FM? Last I checked it does pretty darn well right where it's at. ESPN at 950 didn't actually light the world on fire so why would anyone expect it to do much better at 97.5? It seems CBS has some choices to make at 94.1 now. Taking B-101 on hasn't proved successful for anyone lately. The rock thing is really working for them and hardly puts a dent into Radio 104.5 and WMMR. You can't go after Ben FM and WMGK because that would infringe on WOGL. Maybe you move "The Big Talker" to 94.1? Maybe you move KYW to 94.1? You can't look to what CBS has done in other markets because the scenario is rather different in Philly. I would bet a Conservative Talker lands at WYSP, but I'd also wonder if they decide to take on the WXTU monster. WXTU would seem ripe for the picking, and if you added some country from the 90's you might have a shot at hurting them. This would have been the right choice for Greater Media at 97.5 but they blew it. Maybe with 94.1 you are looking at the first Christmas station of the season. Exploit Greater Media's bungled chance for all it's worth.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't see a motivation for a company like to blow up a successful franchise just to compete on FM with WPEN. The fact is the reason WPEN moved to FM was because it couldn't win on AM. Meanwhile, WIP is already winning. CBS has the play-by-play of the Phillies and the Eagles. And yes, the Eagles are already on WYSP, so that frequency makes it most likely for sports. But why? Unless there's an actual advantage to make more money than they're already making, there's no point to cannibalize one station to compete against a station you're already beating. If they want to do more sports on FM, all they have to do is simulcast the Phillies on WYSP. Then it's done.

 

[nd2023]

If people want to hear the Phillies game, they will tune in no matter what frequency it's on. If people want to hear banter about sports, they'll prefer an FM station.

 

[TheBigA]

If people want to hear the Phillies game, they will tune in no matter what frequency it's on. If people want to hear banter about sports, they'll prefer an FM station.

I think people have their favorite people who banter about sports, just as they have their favorite teams. Which means if they want Eskin, they'll go to 610 regardless of it being on AM. It's up to the Fanatic to create those kinds of personalities who'll attract people AWAY from WIP. Just being on FM isn't enough. I think it's obvious that in Philadelphia, people WILL listen to AM radio if it has what they want.

I think to CBS, this move is like a gnat buzzing around your head. It's a little annoying, but it ain't gonna kill you. Unless you make the mistake of giving it your attention.

 

[DToTheJ]

Maybe with 94.1 you are looking at the first Christmas station of the season...

I don't know... As mentioned above, isn't WYSP contractually obligated to carry the Eagles? If you're gonna go all-Christmas, no sense stopping for sports PBP... Nice idea, though...

 

[wprt949]

now if we could just get the flyers-sixers on fm id be a happy person

 

[bigtom101]

I don't see a motivation for a company like to blow up a successful franchise just to compete on FM with WPEN. The fact is the reason WPEN moved to FM was because it couldn't win on AM. Meanwhile, WIP is already winning. CBS has the play-by-play of the Phillies and the Eagles. And yes, the Eagles are already on WYSP, so that frequency makes it most likely for sports. But why? Unless there's an actual advantage to make more money than they're already making, there's no point to cannibalize one station to compete against a station you're already beating. If they want to do more sports on FM, all they have to do is simulcast the Phillies on WYSP. Then it's done.

It's about preserving the brand & ad revenue, and while WIP may have the best AM signal in the market, it's still an AM signal subject to allot of interference from thunderstorms, electrical noise (which has gotten allot worse over the past decade), and even listeners cars themselves. CBS can't fix those issues, but it can put WIP on 94.1 and negate them. Hell, when anyone turns on the bathroom lights & fan at home WPHT gets wiped out - and I'm within the "red" cricle on the Radio-Locator (hold the laughter) map.

Plus there's the whole issue of the viability of AM with younger demos - and the only time they listen to AM is if the game is on WIP or WFAN. Even then they wish it was on FM so that it didn't sound like a bad telephone call.

 

[TheBigA]

It's about preserving the brand & ad revenue,

Until the brand or revenue is in trouble, there's no reason to blow up a cash cow. And right now, WIP is doing fine, and if they rush to move it to FM, there's NOTHING they can put on 610 that can come even barely close to what they're getting with sports. Meanwhile, WYSP already showed what happens when you blow up a music station for male-oriented talk on FM. There are a few weeks left in baseball season, so WPHT simulcasts the next few Phillies games on FM. That's all they have to do to win. They preserve the mother ship, and don't over-react.

 

[oaktree]

Blow up or waste a simulcast signal on 610 that is highly known, a solid brand, a 20-year revenue gorilla and a legacy station with a decent signal?

Nah.

That would be reactionary, not assertive.

Yes, WIP has one problem -- a somewhat, but not restrictive -- "older" demo. But it also has options that "Fanatic" doesn't have. One, Greater Media's 97.5 doesn't have the technical punch. If and when CBS moves to 94.1, especially with the in-house major team coverage from the Phillies to the Sixers, Iggles to the Flyers, not to mention Eskin and Cataldi, CBS doesn't have to drop an air raid just to scream "Us, too!" to go on 'YSP. At least not now. 94.1 has success as the Eagles flagship and has been branded as such, far more successfully than as its rock and Free FM offerings over the past few years.

CBS knows it can make the switch when it wants, as it wants. Just moving WIP to FM is not, at least yet, a guarantee that the migration of listeners and revenues will be automatic. Just as with what WPEN will dismally see, it's "all or nothing." With anemic ratings, 'PEN has no where else to go. It its listeners all flock to "Fanatic 97.5" -- 'PEN is ESPN schlock ala its flagships in other markets essentially "placeholders" to sell the ESPN brand across the country. Philly is another peg in that board to use just for that purpose -- ratings or none.

Once the migration is analyzed and the ability is shown to capture more males 18-34, CBS drops the bomb, kills off WYSP and unloads a large play-by-play branding with talk that will eclipse "Fanatic" in no time -- especially locally. And CBS already has the Philly guns to do it.

Wait till, oh, I don't know, the start of the Sixers season or until the Flyers really are in contention before any such move. Then, it will be simulcast for a time (to keep that older demo) before CBS decides what to do with it.

A change with Family ala San Francisco? Possibly ... but not right now or even soon, in my opinion. KFRC had long lost its luster on 610 and had moved on, unsuccessfully, to FM before that switch. There wasn't much there. Once CBS moved KCBS to 106.9, things started looking up and quickly, even as a simulcast with 740.

In Philly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a hybrid approach. Part KYW and part WIP combined on 94.1. Greater Media wouldn't be able to touch it, it would attract the younger, more active high end of the 25-54s and still be the leader in all news on 1060 and sports with the myriad of play by play and local sports talk. "All News - All Sports - Where Philadelphia Comes To Play."

Imagine the possibilities.

 

[pabsungenis]

WIP's numbers jumped significantly in the early 90's when they had the simulcast deal with WSKR 102.7.

An AM/FM simulcast for part of the day followed by separate programming (like WOGL-AM/FM was for a while) might do wonders.

Simulcast the big talk hosts, then for play by play the big teams on the FM and more college and minor-league stuff on the AM.

 

[Seltzer]

I think people have their favorite people who banter about sports, just as they have their favorite teams. Which means if they want Eskin, they'll go to 610 regardless of it being on AM. It's up to the Fanatic to create those kinds of personalities who'll attract people AWAY from WIP. Quote====



I would expect GM to make a run at some of the WIP personalities when contracts come up. They've got one in Mikey M. And if it comes up I'm sure Angelo & Co will be positive on the air about everything but you have to think in the back of their minds, they want to be on a big FM stick as well.

WEEI in Boston had the franchise in sports. But when CBS created the sports station that is WBZ-FM, Entercom didn't hesitate in getting their product on FM. WYSP already has the biggest sports franchise in the city and for the first time this season, the games are being sumulcast on WIP. Trust me, the brass at CBS are already thinking about this.