WJPA, the way radio used to be

[db59]

I can understand how an obscure, quirky song could send a significant number of listeners away. But if a song charted in the top 20, it would seem that there are a couple of listeners who liked it for each who hated it. The main thing that would drive those who liked it away is if it grossly overplayed. Otherwise, you get a couple "great to hear that rare one again" for each "can't stand it, I'm punching out." And I would not underestimate the value of hearing a rare one again. At least in my case, it is such a pleasure that it builds loyalty - and I'll tolerate some totally unfamiliar or annoying songs, even on HyLitRadio, because the overall positive experience. I hope we're not programming to fickle teeny-boppers.

How long after Dandy drives him away until Lovin Feeling drives him back?

Although some of the songs mentioned (ex: Honey, Hello Dolly) may not have held up as well as others, keep in mind those songs sold millions of records and people still know those songs, whether "bad" or not. And to say a song is "bad" is just a matter of opinion. I happen to like Winchester Cathedral and Alone Again Naturally. I'd even listen to Dominique by the Singing Nun (which also went to #1) if it meant not hearing the same stale songs every day. I don't think hearing a song you don't really like that much will make you banish that station for life. The odds are, for every song you might not care for, there are 5 other ones you do like, and if several of these are songs that aren't played that often, then you actually have something to look forward to. I guess I amin the minority as to how an oldies radio station should sound. That is why I am just a "stupid" listener, not a "qualified" programmer.

 

[cingram]

Although some of the songs mentioned (ex: Honey, Hello Dolly) may not have held up as well as others, keep in mind those songs sold millions of records and people still know those songs, whether "bad" or not. And to say a song is "bad" is just a matter of opinion. I happen to like Winchester Cathedral and Alone Again Naturally. I'd even listen to Dominique by the Singing Nun (which also went to #1) if it meant not hearing the same stale songs every day. I don't think hearing a song you don't really like that much will make you banish that station for life. The odds are, for every song you might not care for, there are 5 other ones you do like, and if several of these are songs that aren't played that often, then you actually have something to look forward to. I guess I amin the minority as to how an oldies radio station should sound. That is why I am just a "stupid" listener, not a "qualified" programmer.

The problem is that things have changed, and people don't have to sit through a song they don't like. They can
go to their smartphone or their iPod, or Pandora or Slacker or Grooveshark, or any one of thousands of terrestrial
stations which are streaming, let alone the Internet-only stations.

A number of years ago, there was a motivational book called You Can't Afford The Luxury Of A Negative Thought.
There should be a similar axiom for radio today: you can't afford the luxury of a negative song, not one, not ever (not if you want to win).

C.

 

[Boss Radio]

There will ALWAYS be a song someone doesn't like. Playing "Who'll Stop The Rain" every three hours won't prevent people from punching out at times.

 

[laidback]

Although some of the songs mentioned (ex: Honey, Hello Dolly) may not have held up as well as others, keep in mind those songs sold millions of records and people still know those songs, whether "bad" or not. And to say a song is "bad" is just a matter of opinion. I happen to like Winchester Cathedral and Alone Again Naturally. I'd even listen to Dominique by the Singing Nun (which also went to #1) if it meant not hearing the same stale songs every day. I don't think hearing a song you don't really like that much will make you banish that station for life. The odds are, for every song you might not care for, there are 5 other ones you do like, and if several of these are songs that aren't played that often, then you actually have something to look forward to. I guess I amin the minority as to how an oldies radio station should sound. That is why I am just a "stupid" listener, not a "qualified" programmer.

The problem is that things have changed, and people don't have to sit through a song they don't like. They can
go to their smartphone or their iPod, or Pandora or Slacker or Grooveshark, or any one of thousands of terrestrial
stations which are streaming, let alone the Internet-only stations.

A number of years ago, there was a motivational book called You Can't Afford The Luxury Of A Negative Thought.
There should be a similar axiom for radio today: you can't afford the luxury of a negative song, not one, not ever (not if you want to win).

C.

 

[laidback]

The exact programming mentality that has CHASED older music listeners to internet and satellite music radio. I don't know many 50+ radio listeners that go to terrestrial radio for music, just talk, sports and news.

 

[filenz]

Let’s go back to 1959 or 60, there were only a half dozen radio stations to listen to, the youth would typically go to KQV or WEEP while the adults would choose from KDKA, WCAE, WWSW, or WJAS. It wasn’t the music that would attract an audience, it was the personalities and that is what is missing from radio today. I firmly believe that if you provide content that someone is interested in they will listen whether it is AM, FM Short-wave or a tin can. An old-timer in the business once told me it’s not the music that is important, it is the content built around it and I can now understand that.

 

[laidback]

Personalities AND music. Hate the word, deverse, over used these days, but top 40 playlists in the 50's & 60's were diverse. Then when Brother Love showed up on WAMO it was both the music and personality that attracted me. I stand corrected, the only music on terrestrial radio I tune in to is Witherspoons Saturday Blues show on YEP. Was sorry to see BumbleBee retire.

 

[corporateradiosucks]

There will ALWAYS be a song someone doesn't like. Playing "Who'll Stop The Rain" every three hours won't prevent people from punching out at times.

Exactly. Not only that, there are songs that I like, and if you'd ask me I'd say I liked, I just don't feel like hearing at this or that particular moment.

I honestly think that at this point, the people who are SO narrow minded as to never want to hear a song they don't know and love 100% of the time are already gone - the technology's there - and terrestrial radio should stop trying to win them back. Appeal to the people like the one who started this thread.

 

[corporateradiosucks]

There will ALWAYS be a song someone doesn't like. Playing "Who'll Stop The Rain" every three hours won't prevent people from punching out at times.

Exactly. Not only that, there are songs that I like, and if you'd ask me in a focus group I'd say I liked, I just don't feel like hearing at this or that particular moment. Sorry WLTJ, I didn't hear the 52 commercials you played after Don't Speak, because I am just flat out annoyed with Gwen Stefani today. That doesn't mean I'll feel the same way tomorrow.

I honestly think that at this point, the people who are SO narrow minded as to never want to hear a song they don't know and love 100% of the time are already gone - the technology's there - and terrestrial radio should stop trying to win them back. Appeal to the people like the one who started this thread.

 

[tce]

"There should be a similar axiom for radio today: you can't afford the luxury of a negative song, not one, not ever (not if you want to win)."

I recognize this as hyperbole, but there is a concept in my industry: when a customer insists on something that is going to diminish the product, it is time to fire that customer.

 

[cingram]

Of course, not every listener is going to like every song. But if you don't hit that bullseye most of the
time, the listeners will go somewhere else.

Radio is programmed to groups, not to individuals. Any individual who listens to a certain radio station
all day -- no matter what radio station -- is going to tire of repetition, yet that repetition is necessary
to build and keep a mass audience.

You can't go back to the 1950s and 1960s -- the world has changed too much, but I agree with those
who posted about personalities and music. Sadly, it's personalities that most stations/companies keep
eliminating.

And so it goes ...

C.

 

[db59]

I can't believe how this thread has aroused so many emotions. The main point I was trying to make was that I found it amazing that Dave Anthony of WJPA played my request less than 5 minutes after I called the station. Just the fact that there was an actual person there answering the phone was amazing in itself. It wasn't because my request was "Dandy" or "Dizzy" or "Desperado", it was that I found it amazing that he cared enough to fulfill my request, no questions asked, in such a short amount of time. Since my mention of "Dandy" set off such a debate, how about adding fuel to the fire. Right after he played my song, he then played "They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Ha". All you so-called programming experts can have a coronary over that one. I for one was in my glory. I just don't get that excited hearing 3WS play the same old Billy Joel & Elton John songs most of the day.

 

[cingram]

Right after he played my song, he then played "They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Ha."

ACK!

C.

 

[Parttimer]

Might as well have gone ahead and fired up Lorne Greene after that.....

 

[wrsg915fm]

I am the station manager (really also PD and OM) of a high school noncom in West Virginia (WRSG, licensed to the Tyler County Board of Education). We have the luxury of playing oldies that no one in our area touches, and our audience loves it, based on the phone calls and voice mails we receive. It's unfortunate that so-called oldies stations don't even run syndicated shows featuring B-sides, novelty tunes and regional favorites. We run 'em, and it's one of the things that make our station unique. Again, we have the LUXURY to do so...salaries are not dependent upon our very-eclectic playlist.

I for one would LOVE to have a WJPA-like station in our area. Those of you that get their AM-FM combo are truly blessed.

 

[Tim]

If you're in a small town in WV, or really small town anywhere, why not apply for an LPFM and play anything you want? Or, buy a low-powered AM....many are for sale in 2012 at ridiculous prices.

Now, you'll have to totally pay for the upkeep...as you're likely not going to be a big money-maker based on audience size and advertising.

Or, buy a MP3 player and load it up with your favorite songs. You won't hear disc jockey's...it's just music....but, you get what you want.

I just retired from a 40-year career in radio, and still find it amazing that radio hobbyists and college radio people just don't understand owning a commercial radio station is a business...and you have to try to program for the needs and wants of the mass public....not thousands of individuals.

The general rule in radio: the longer the playlist, the lower the ratings and smaller the audience. That's a shame, but that's what the masses want: predictability and safe. Every time stations I worked at expanded their playlists beyond 400 to 600 titles the ratings went down and income followed downward.

Also, if hobbyists and college radio people who complain about repetition and short playlists realized it...most veteran radio people hate short playlists probably more than they do. But, we realize that's what it takes to make money and get paid.

 

[kenhawk1160]

I can't believe how this thread has aroused so many emotions. The main point I was trying to make was that I found it amazing that Dave Anthony of WJPA played my request less than 5 minutes after I called the station. Just the fact that there was an actual person there answering the phone was amazing in itself. It wasn't because my request was "Dandy" or "Dizzy" or "Desperado", it was that I found it amazing that he cared enough to fulfill my request, no questions asked, in such a short amount of time. Since my mention of "Dandy" set off such a debate, how about adding fuel to the fire. Right after he played my song, he then played "They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Ha". All you so-called programming experts can have a coronary over that one. I for one was in my glory. I just don't get that excited hearing 3WS play the same old Billy Joel & Elton John songs most of the day.

Here's what makes WJPA a success:

1. Live, local, on-site jocks who know their music and know it well.

2. INTENSE marketing and promotion. Lots of remotes, call letter visibility, t-shirts and other premiums.

3. They don't to be what they're not, and that's a Pittsburgh station. They never turned their backs on Washington County.

4. DEEP music library.

5. A loyal, dedicated staff...almost all of them have been there for at least ten years.

But that's the short list.

 

[filenz]

Here's what makes WJPA a success:

1. Live, local, on-site jocks who know their music and know it well.

2. INTENSE marketing and promotion. Lots of remotes, call letter visibility, t-shirts and other premiums.

3. They don't to be what they're not, and that's a Pittsburgh station. They never turned their backs on Washington County.

4. DEEP music library.

5. A loyal, dedicated staff...almost all of them have been there for at least ten years.

But that's the short list.

I agree with Ken, both Washington and Butler are markets where listeners embrace their community minded radio stations. There is no need for short playlists there. 3WS in 1987 went on the air with a playlist of just over 700 songs but it wasn’t a year or 2 later they reduced it to 329 and yes ratings went up but after burning through those songs over a 10 year period ratings got stale. Music testing is flawed. A young music director today relies too heavily on chart position, that’s a mistake, since the publics tastes change over time. The more important element is the number of weeks a song stayed on the chart. Forget Billboard, their info is tainted. Berry Gordy always pressed more units then nessesary by say the Jackson 5 which would give them a higher chart position, then a month later would sell off the bulk for cut-outs (maybe 100,000 units), in doing this it created a sense of high volume sales. By selling them as cut-outs he didn’t have to pay the royalties. The charts I prefer are CashBox since they depend on an average of record store sales, jukebox operator tallies and radio stations

 

[Tim]

Remember...radio is a business. If they are hitting or exceeding their revenue goals, 3WS or any radio station could care less if their programming is considered blah or boring to radio hobbyists or other radio people. It's a business, sad but true.

Unless you're the owner, there is no way for any of us to accurately say if WJPA is a success or not, and why it might (or might not) be so. Many people on these radio hobby boards are just giving their personal opinions, and stating them as facts.

If deep/long playlists worked that well, every music station everywhere would have long play lists. That's just common sense.

 

[cingram]

Music testing is flawed. A young music director today relies too heavily on chart position, that’s a mistake, since the publics tastes change over time. The more important element is the number of weeks a song stayed on the chart. Forget Billboard, their info is tainted. The charts I prefer are CashBox since they depend on an average of record store sales, jukebox operator tallies and radio stations

There is no perfect method of testing music. The so-called auditorium music test and callout research, when
properly administered (and that's imperative), are highly effective. In any event, you don't know what songs
people like until you ask them scientifically. I wouldn't trust national chart positions, requests or the opinions
of neighbors, friends, family, or the guy at your local 7-Eleven.

Having said that, it takes only a certain amount of common sense to conclude that "Saturday In The Park" by
Chicago is a smash hit, "Call On Me" is no longer a smash but is still playable, and "Harry Truman" is better off
forgotten. The big hits are fairly easy to spot. It's the songs that are marginal or outright negative that you
have to watch out for.

C.