WKDN Changing From Non-Comm Back to Commercial?

[Slinky]

Are there any translators in the noncommercial band that relay WKDN? Wouldn't they have to switch to another noncom?

They could be fed with an HD2.

Hmmm... I think I read this wrong when I responded.

The commercial band translators could be fed with an HD2.

The non-commercial band translators could be fed from anywhere with a satellite. There's no rule that non-commercial band translators be fed over the air. Family does own a number of other non-comm full power licenses.

 

[Slinky]

Isn't CBS maxed out on how many radio stations it can have in Philly? But then if they are simply switching stations maybe that doesn't count, or is there a limit specific for how many AMs vs FMs a company can have in that same market. Someone here knows the answers to these questions.

CBS may not own more than 6 radio stations total, because of cross-ownership rules (they own 2 TV stations). They may own no more than 5 stations in one band.

So a trade involving 610 and 106.9 would still keep CBS under ownership limits. They would own 4 FMs and 2 AMs.

It's interesting that, at the time of CBS's last Philadelphia divestiture, they sold off an FM (93.3) while keeping all 3 AMs. I wonder how the market would have been different had they had the foresight to keep all 4 FMs and sell off 610 at that time.

 

[Bill_W]

If all this speculation involves CBS trading/selling an AM for 106.9, since they've done this before with Family radio in San Fran., which AM is it? Is it 610 because of what CBS has done with WBZ-FM vs WEEI-AM in Boston? CBS has gone in with an FM sports station in Boston and killed WEEI in the ratings. Is CBS reacting here in Philly before the same thing happens here with WPEN-FM vs WIP-AM? If it is WIP-FM vs WPEN-FM, the fight is on an even footing?
Anyone for KYW-FM and Family Radio on 1060? Kill WYSP and put WIP on 94.1 and simulcast KYW on 1060 and 106.9 trading 610?

 

[radiophiler]

@Slinky: I think you are correct, but the count is currently two FMs and three AMs (WOGL, WYSP, KYW, WIP and WPHT). I think their limit is five stations.Swapping 106.9 for 610 would give them three FMs and two AMs.

 

[qtpieislit]

Anyone for KYW-FM and Family Radio on 1060? Kill WYSP and put WIP on 94.1 and simulcast KYW on 1060 and 106.9 trading 610?

KYW-FM was once on 92.5. In the early 50's Westinghouse broadcasting donated it to a newly formed Non Comm. The calls were changed to WUHY an WUHY then moved the frequency alocation to 90.1, the pub broadcaster spectrum. 92.5 was subsequently re-allocated many years later.

 

[nd2023]

I'd like to see a "106-9 Now FM" format if CBS gets it, like 92.3 in New York.

 

[BRUSSTAR]

WKDN Signal

I know for decades everyone has drooled over the idea of doing something with this station, but may I be the first to say here that-- for the purposes of covering the market (relative to the other FMs), this signal sucks?

I can barely pull it in on household radios in King of Prussia, the heart of the Philly market. Even in the car it's choppy, and often doesn't stop-on-seek.

Is there any reason this couldn't be moved to Rox by new owners?

 

[Bill_W]

I'd like to see a "106-9 Now FM" format if CBS gets it, like 92.3 in New York.

If CBS gets it, one of the AM stations just moves over to FM. The Family Radio programming will move to the AM station.

 

[wprt949]

I would love to see WIP on fm with the eagles flyers and sixers games all in fm stereo

one can dream

 

[KSB]

Re: WKDN Signal

Is there any reason this couldn't be moved to Rox by new owners?

Just on a guess without calculating the distances, I'd have to guess that moving to Roxborough would create short-spacing with at least WBYN (Boyertown) on 107.5 and WMHX (Hershey) on 106.7.

 

[Slinky]

@Slinky: I think you are correct, but the count is currently two FMs and three AMs (WOGL, WYSP, KYW, WIP and WPHT). I think their limit is five stations.Swapping 106.9 for 610 would give them three FMs and two AMs.

You're right. Major brain fart- I either counted WMMR as one they currently owned or I already mentally assigned 106.9 to them. CBS does own 3 AMs and 2 FMs.

Either way, a 610 for 106.9 trade works.

 

[jmtillery]

After the WKDN divesture, this will leave Family Stations with two viable and valuable remaining FM properties: WFME-FM 94.7 B Newark, New Jersey [New York]; and, WFSI-FM 107.9 B Annapolis, Maryland [Baltimore - Washington]. Everything else in the Family station portfolio is either AM, NCE-FM or translators / satellators.

 

[rtetro]

Re: WKDN Signal

I know for decades everyone has drooled over the idea of doing something with this station, but may I be the first to say here that-- for the purposes of covering the market (relative to the other FMs), this signal sucks?

BINGO!!! I've been following this thread closely the past couple of days and wondered how long it would take before someone would bring up their signal. WKDN is definitely sustandard for a full class B. Here in Lansdale I can pick them up fairly decently in the car, albeit with a lot of heavy picket-fencing. In the house, however, on several different portable radios the signal is almost non-exsistent. Only on one VERY hot FM radio is it really listenable. Even on my stereo system with an outside antenna pointed at Philly, the signal doesn't come close to the Roxborough stations. It is really not much better than 94.5 WPST here.

They do have a good signal in south Jersey which is largely flat. In Pennsy though, once you hit the hills it degrades fairly quickly.

It is not anywhere nearly as strong as either WIP or KYW's AM signal. CBS would lose coverage if they did a swap for either station. A better swap, signal for signal would be WPEN-AM...even with WPEN's day and night power increases in recent years.

 

[GSP163]

I know that someone mentioned that WKDN would have possiblle short spacing issues with WBYN & WMHX if it moved to Roxborough but what about moving to the WMMR site?

 

[Kent]

Re: WKDN Signal

It is not anywhere nearly as strong as either WIP or KYW's AM signal. CBS would lose coverage if they did a swap for either station. A better swap, signal for signal would be WPEN-AM...even with WPEN's day and night power increases in recent years.

This is simply a dictate in the laws of physics. Most AM signals will always have a larger coverage area than an FM because of the way signals at those frequencies propagate. If you want to get a younger audience that's more desirable to advertisers, you're going to have to be on FM, even if the signal's not quite as good.

I don't know enough about WKDN, but, if it's presently broadcasting in stereo, the signal will sound stronger if they turn the stereo off. While that wouldn't work for a music station, it would be perfect for a station like WIP or KYW.

 

[rtetro]

I know that someone mentioned that WKDN would have possiblle short spacing issues with WBYN & WMHX if it moved to Roxborough but what about moving to the WMMR site?

Although I have not looked at any data, the PSFS building would seem to be much less problematic than Roxborough. Another option might be the WRNB site in center city. I would be very surprised if a move to Roxborough did not necessitate a directional antenna - which would kind of defeat the purpose. That is unless, of course, the new owners worked out a deal with WBYN and WMHX. We did this at the 103.5 version of WYNY in New York City when we wanted to move from a directional antenna on the south tower of the World Trade Center to the master antenna on the north tower. The company basically paid to upgrade both WNNJ 103.7 in Newton, NY and WPRB in Princeton, with the three stations agreeing to accept any mutual interference.

 

[DG02816]

WPEN might be a good fit on a for-coverage trade. Family Radio does have at least one strict daytime AMer, WCTF 1170 Vernon CT(a Hartford suburb). That being said, what is 860's So. Jersey coverage? I'm not ruling out WWDB here.Surprised they never got 50 kW, unless there would be overlap with WCBS. I've heard WCTF here at home in Oreland on a barefoot Grundig S350; this was before WFYL came on.

 

[deepstblu]

That being said, what is 860's So. Jersey coverage? I'm not ruling out WWDB here.Surprised they never got 50 kW, unless there would be overlap with WCBS.

860 is basically directional to the SE, it looks like it gets into NJ better than it gets into much of suburban PA. The pattern must be providing protection to the old 850 WEEU allocation; don't know if that can be loosened up with WEEU on 830 now. I think people have said that it can't because of other issues. Don't know how much of an issue WCBS would be. The 640 in Mount Holly is 50kW days and it's closer to the WFAN/WCBS site than WWDB would be.

If Family wanted to do a deal with Beasley they might rather have 800. The wattage is lower but it's full-time and not as heavily directional.

 

[JH_Radio]

Is sports in FM Stereo?
I thought that was done in the 80's, but no longer?
Is it sorta like TV whare the croud mikes are spaced and panned to make stereo broadcasting?

 

[rtetro]

If Family wanted to do a deal with Beasley they might rather have 800. The wattage is lower but it's full-time and not as heavily directional.

WTMR is little better than a daytimer, however. Their 500W night signal is virtually unlistenable outside of the immediate Camden-center city Philly area due to the heavy co-channel signal from CKLW. I don't know what their nighttime interference free limit is, but I'd bet it's in the double digits.