WKHB and WKFB: COL application

[lash]

Wow, I wouldn't touch 620 at all. His signal is tremendous. Listened to it to almost Virginia on Monday.

620 and 770 have been listed for sale for 5 million dollars for over 5 years. No one including Salem is buying them anytime soon.

 

[Rodeo_Surrealist]

I'd say this thread was scraping the bottom of the barrel, but the bottom was scraped through a long time ago. :

Not only do these two stations have no measurable listeners but practically everything brought up so far is wrong ...

1.) The COL applications are more than two years old. The FCC website says "11/02/2004":
http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=72297

2.) It's not like it's some secret. Google wkhb and brentwood and you come up with a bunch of references:
"http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wkhb+"brentwood"&btnG=Google+Search"

3.) The WKFB one was rejected by the commission a year ago:
http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1078570

4.) These stations already have studios/offices in Allegheny county at 1918 Lincoln Hwy in N. Versailles: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04143/320085.stm

Seriously, does anyone here do any research before they comment? ;D

 

[kenhawk1160]

But arguing about the COL of a station licensed to the COUNTY SEAT in ANOTHER county is an entirely different matter.

Why? Do the people who live in the county seat have a greater need to hear infomercials for colon cleansers than other people?

The programming isn't the point. As a licensee, you have an obligation to serve the public interest as a public trustee. Despite the current COL situation, Barry Banker still aired Westmoreland County-oriented local news on 620, though nowhere near what it used to be. It will cease to exist if allowed to move at this point. You could at least depend on this station (again, to a lesser degree) in the event of emergency information for Westmoreland County.

 

[Radio_Realist]

You could at least depend on this station (again, to a lesser degree) in the event of emergency information for Westmoreland County.

Yeah, as long as the emergency didn't happen while the station was on full-autopilot. And assuming that even if there was a human being at the station, that human wasn't just a board op. And assuming that the human being at the station had some source for emergency information that needed to be broadcast. And assuming that any in the range of the station turned to that station for the news. And assuming that it was an emergency that was only of importance in Westmoreland county.

Can anyone in here remember an emergency in any of the counties that surround Allegheny County that needed to have critical information about it broadcast over the local radio stations because there were no other media available? And if you can, were their people at the local stations who gathered and broadcast that critical information?

 

[Parttimer]

Wow, I wouldn't touch 620 at all. His signal is tremendous. Listened to it to almost Virginia on Monday.

620 and 770 have been listed for sale for 5 million dollars for over 5 years. No one including Salem is buying them anytime soon.

And that's part of my point, wasting that signal on that programming is, well, a waste... granted, there's no night signal at WKHB, but Clear Channel has taken a big signal at 620 WDAE in Tampa and turned it into one of the highest-rated sports stations in the country. Not saying you could do that here, but with real programming (NOT OLDIES) it certainly should be able to beat WPTT, KQV, 970 and WPIT. Same goes for 540 (how do local Radio Disney affiliates make money anyway?)

And you're right, Lash, no one will pay that price.

 

[Radio_Realist]

with real programming (NOT OLDIES) it certainly should be able to beat WPTT, KQV, 970 and WPIT.

With real programming (and definitely NOT OLDIES), combined with really good promotion, it should be able to beat WPTT, KQV, 970 and WPIT combined!

 

[Snafu]

So for all of that time, effort and money and assuming that every break went your way you'd be what, 19th in the market?? Maybe 15th if your programming hit a five run homer every day? Could you do more than break even in this market with that? How long could you sustain the losses? Remember you have to sell the station to people outside of this board, most of whom don't even know that 620 exists. Most of those people have forgotten they have an AM band on their radio anymore.

 

[Radio_Realist]

So for all of that time, effort and money and assuming that every break went your way you'd be what, 19th in the market??

If all you planned on doing was sitting back and waiting for agency buyers to beat down your door, being 19th in the market would suck. If you planned on actually hiring a sales staff to sell spots to local advertisers, you could be quite profitable at #19. You could also lose your shirt. But neither would be guaranteed.

Remember you have to sell the station to people outside of this board, most of whom don't even know that 620 exists. Most of those people have forgotten they have an AM band on their radio anymore.

I guess you missed what I put in italics. Let me try it in bold face, combined with really good promotion. There are very few products that you can simply throw in front of potential customers that they'll automatically buy. Whenever you bring a new product to market, whether it's a brand of soap, a new restaurant, or a new radio station, you have to advertise and promote it.

Maybe you didn't notice this, but radio stations make their money by selling air time to businesses who want to advertise their products. That's because advertising can work for selling products. Radio stations have to advertise themselves using whatever media is appropriate to reach potential listeners in order to let the listeners know that the station exists and what kind of programming the listener will hear if he tunes in.

Radio stations that sell themselves to listeners attract more new listeners. Radio stations that do not sell themselves to listeners do not attract new listeners.

 

[Parttimer]

With a 2-share 12+ and maybe a 7th-place finish in men or women 35-64, you could probably bill $2-3 million a year.

 

[Snafu]

The 2 share could be doable inside of a year, but top 10 in any meaningful demograhic in a market with this little change would really be stunning to say the least. In any event the kind of money that you'd have to sink into it on the promotional end just to get the thing off the ground would have you bathing in red ink for at least 24 months....if not forever.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Can anyone in here remember an emergency in any of the counties that surround Allegheny County that needed to have critical information about it broadcast over the local radio stations because there were no other media available? And if you can, were their people at the local stations who gathered and broadcast that critical information?

We had a tornado warning not even a month ago, Realist. And it went out over all three of our stations. Even during times when we have a board op at the controls, they know who to call when they get this information and we take it from there.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Same goes for 540 (how do local Radio Disney affiliates make money anyway?)

It's quite simple, really. You market it the same way you did with the Top 40 stations that started popping up everywhere in the 1960's. The big argument was that bubble gum manufacturers didn't advertise on the radio. Kids today have much more spending power today than their parents did a generation ago. They buy CD's, books, clothing, cosmetics, fast food, DVDs, computer games, and such TODAY. Tomorrow they'll be buying gasoline, their first used car, higher education, just to name a few. And, any responsible parent who's connected to their child will also be listening...because they care about what kind of entertainment their kid listens to. Thus, they'll also be hearing the ads.

 

[Radio_Realist]

We had a tornado warning not even a month ago, Realist. And it went out over all three of our stations.

I remember that. I saw it on cable TV.

 

[GrizzledVet]

I remember that. I saw it on cable TV.

Good for you, Realist, but maybe you won't be so lucky next time if your cable company loses it's sat feed or if you are without power, in a car or in the TV-less basement of your home. Ken runs a good operation that serves the community of license -- and he answered your question. We all understand that relay of emergency information is done through a combination of technologies and methods, always has and always will.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Good for you, Realist, but maybe you won't be so lucky next time if your cable company loses it's sat feed or if you are without power, in a car or in the TV-less basement of your home.

Yeah, maybe that would happen. And maybe the first thing the tornado hit would be the radio station's transmitter.

he answered your question.

My question was: "Can anyone in here remember an emergency in any of the counties that surround Allegheny County that needed to have critical information about it broadcast over the local radio stations because there were no other media available?". With all due respect, the answer he gave was not an instance of critical information that had to be on the radio because there were no other media available. There was other media available.

Ken runs a good operation that serves the community of license

I do not dispute that. I never said his operation wasn't good. Nor did I say that he didn't serve his community of license. Like all local broadcasters, he serves his community of license with entertaining music programming. Entertaining people is a good thing. It's nothing to be ashamed of. He serves his community by enabling merchants to inform customers about their business offerings. Facilitating commerce is a good thing. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

The fact that in this day and age all that local radio stations really do for their communities of license is to provide entertainment and promote business is not a bad thing. All restaurants do is provide food to hungry people. There's nothing wrong with that. All convenience stores do is provide fuel and miscellaneous items in a hurry. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's quite convenient.

I'm simply trying to get people off of some sort of high horse about their business operations being some sort of noble civic asset when it is really nothing more than another business. There's nothing wrong with operating a business that's just a business, no better and no worse than any other. Operating a radio station is not a religious calling. It's not some sort of special thing. Any local radio station is just an advertiser funded juke box with a few extra bells and whistles. Don't try making it sound like it's something more than that.

 

[fromtheinsideout]

In truth, there was other available media to you, not necessarily to the listeners. As I recall it, there was plenty of local TV stations here telling people to go to their basements and doing that fear mongering that they do so well. Maybe everyone ignored those warnings, maybe there were no interruptions in electrical service, maybe those that followed the warning actually have cable TV in their basement but the idea that because you saw it on TV, then it didn't serve a purpose is one of the most arrogant things I think I have read on here. I will admit, half of your tagline is right, "expect a stupid answer."

 

[kenhawk1160]

Good for you, Realist, but maybe you won't be so lucky next time if your cable company loses it's sat feed or if you are without power, in a car or in the TV-less basement of your home.

Yeah, maybe that would happen. And maybe the first thing the tornado hit would be the radio station's transmitter.

he answered your question.

My question was: "Can anyone in here remember an emergency in any of the counties that surround Allegheny County that needed to have critical information about it broadcast over the local radio stations because there were no other media available?". With all due respect, the answer he gave was not an instance of critical information that had to be on the radio because there were no other media available. There was other media available.

Ken runs a good operation that serves the community of license

I do not dispute that. I never said his operation wasn't good. Nor did I say that he didn't serve his community of license. Like all local broadcasters, he serves his community of license with entertaining music programming. Entertaining people is a good thing. It's nothing to be ashamed of. He serves his community by enabling merchants to inform customers about their business offerings. Facilitating commerce is a good thing. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

The fact that in this day and age all that local radio stations really do for their communities of license is to provide entertainment and promote business is not a bad thing. All restaurants do is provide food to hungry people. There's nothing wrong with that. All convenience stores do is provide fuel and miscellaneous items in a hurry. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's quite convenient.

I'm simply trying to get people off of some sort of high horse about their business operations being some sort of noble civic asset when it is really nothing more than another business. There's nothing wrong with operating a business that's just a business, no better and no worse than any other. Operating a radio station is not a religious calling. It's not some sort of special thing. Any local radio station is just an advertiser funded juke box with a few extra bells and whistles. Don't try making it sound like it's something more than that.

That's where you're wrong, Realist. You're talking about 'entertaining' but nothing else. We do MORE than that. We also inform...through little vehicles called news, weather, and EAS. When bad weather hits, the first place people usually call is the radio station to find out what's happening. Fortunately, we're on the air first with that information so they don't have to make those calls anymore...though we still get some every now and again.

 

[radio--refugee]

I'm not looking for my local radio station to give me emergency information.....I just want it to pound the same 300 oldies into my addled brain over and over and over again, until it turns to complete mush.

 

[Radio_Realist]

When bad weather hits, the first place people usually call is the radio station to find out what's happening.

I guess all the progress of the past few decades, with several 24 hours weather channels on cable now, and weather information on the internet 24/7 hasn't filtered down to the small towns yet. I remember when my mother used to tune in to KDKA after a snow storm to see if we kids were going to have school or not. I enjoyed that for two reasons. There was a chance I got to stay home from school. And I really loved listening to Rege Cordic. I didn't realize there were still so many people who warmed up the old Philco for their emergency information nowadays.

 

[kenhawk1160]

When bad weather hits, the first place people usually call is the radio station to find out what's happening.

I guess all the progress of the past few decades, with several 24 hours weather channels on cable now, and weather information on the internet 24/7 hasn't filtered down to the small towns yet. I remember when my mother used to tune in to KDKA after a snow storm to see if we kids were going to have school or not. I enjoyed that for two reasons. There was a chance I got to stay home from school. And I really loved listening to Rege Cordic. I didn't realize there were still so many people who warmed up the old Philco for their emergency information nowadays.

I take your point. But Western Pennsylvania is in that unique position of having a much older demographic, most of whom are traveling in the slow lane of the information superhighway.

I won't mention the large amount of younger career welfare recipients who migrate up here (thanks Governor Ed) to take advantage of Pennsylvania's incredibly hassle-free welfare program.

Plus, you're forgetting that approximately 70 percent of radio's audience is mobile. I don't know of that many people with internet access in their cars...and since law enforcement agencies are cracking down on cell phone use while driving, I don't see that many people dialing up their blackberries either.