WLS AM/FM SOLD

[cyberdad]

Let me be clear....I spent more than 30 years in advertising and media....including a decade of in radio (sales, news, & programming). My post was intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek....if essentially an accurate statement of my feelings.

But it's just me. One guy. That's why I wondered if there's been research to back up the "big money but hard to influence" assessment of the older demo. I'm pretty comfortable in guessing that there probably is. And multiple studies at that.

Let me put it this way..... There are few, if any scenarios where I'd be comfortable in depending on the older demographic to provide me with a good living in the advertising business. I'd love to try. It'd be great fun. I know there's money there. But rightly or wrongly (and most likely "rightly") the deck would be stacked against me.

Lazy salespeople? Lazy advertisers? Sure you can always find some. But with all due respect, whenever I've heard that, it's usually been a cop-out excuse used by unsuccessful management suits at media companies. The overwhelming number of people I've met in doing business in just about every state and a half-dozen foreign countries are dedicated professionals who take being entrusted with marcom budgets very seriously. Their butts are on the line daily. They live in a results-driven world and get paid to drive revenue, awareness, and market share.

 

[joebob]

Let me be clear....I spent more than 30 years in advertising and media....including a decade of in radio (sales, news, & programming). My post was intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek....if essentially an accurate statement of my feelings.

But it's just me. One guy. That's why I wondered if there's been research to back up the "big money but hard to influence" assessment of the older demo. I'm pretty comfortable in guessing that there probably is. And multiple studies at that.

Let me put it this way..... There are few, if any scenarios where I'd be comfortable in depending on the older demographic to provide me with a good living in the advertising business. I'd love to try. It'd be great fun. I know there's money there. But rightly or wrongly (and most likely "rightly") the deck would be stacked against me.

Lazy salespeople? Lazy advertisers? Sure you can always find some. But with all due respect, whenever I've heard that, it's usually been a cop-out excuse used by unsuccessful management suits at media companies. The overwhelming number of people I've met in doing business in just about every state and a half-dozen foreign countries are dedicated professionals who take being entrusted with marcom budgets very seriously. Their butts are on the line daily. They live in a results-driven world and get paid to drive revenue, awareness, and market share.

Excellent evaluation of what I was saying. It is what it is with the adult radio demo. I'm finding it to go both ways with the upper end of the demos. And actually 2 examples of over 65 year old family members who do not listen to terrestrial radio. And have not for years. One is listening to XM/Sirius, the other no radio at all. But again a very select small sampling.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Let me be clear....I spent more than 30 years in advertising and media....including a decade of in radio (sales, news, & programming). My post was intended to be slightly tongue-in-cheek....if essentially an accurate statement of my feelings.

But it's just me. One guy. That's why I wondered if there's been research to back up the "big money but hard to influence" assessment of the older demo. I'm pretty comfortable in guessing that there probably is. And multiple studies at that.

Let me put it this way..... There are few, if any scenarios where I'd be comfortable in depending on the older demographic to provide me with a good living in the advertising business. I'd love to try. It'd be great fun. I know there's money there. But rightly or wrongly (and most likely "rightly") the deck would be stacked against me.

Lazy salespeople? Lazy advertisers? Sure you can always find some. But with all due respect, whenever I've heard that, it's usually been a cop-out excuse used by unsuccessful management suits at media companies. The overwhelming number of people I've met in doing business in just about every state and a half-dozen foreign countries are dedicated professionals who take being entrusted with marcom budgets very seriously. Their butts are on the line daily. They live in a results-driven world and get paid to drive revenue, awareness, and market share.

My mistake, I think my original comment was a little aggressive.

My point was, that the commercials I hear on radio seem largely uninspired. It's the same old "Home Depot", "Rosetta Stone" day in, day out. To me, and again I'm not in that old demo, it doesn't seem like radio commercials are appealing to anyone or anything, it's more like filler.

You are right in that bad management is a far more likely culpret!

Anyways, I think I was just on an anti-WLS-FM high at the time - too much Springsteen and Eagles does that to me!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[radiotower40]

Jumping from board to board in Chicago I see a theme. WLS is bad! I'm in the demo and I like WLS now I tune in more now than I did before the changes. I find it to be a compact version of the drive.

The list is a little to tight it's still repeats a lot. They're the top 40 version of the drive. Looking at the breakdown WLS is taking listeners from the drive and getting rid of the 60+ crowd.

I didn't understand the changes at first I see the reasons now. The beuty contest ratings don't matter, those have dropped it means nothing the money demo is going up. I laugh at the other web sites most of the time, there was a person posting on them who seemed a little nutzo to me when they said that the change on WLS was to hurt the drive so they can buy the loop and take the drive listeners which are the perfect age group.

I am not laughing now: the drive is down and it looks like WLS is the cause. The cigar king on Chicago Media Chat is gone not a peep from him for sometime. They laid down exactly what's going on right now if you look back a couple of months.

Maybe the cigar king ryo had it right. They said Crapulus is buying the loop and i101 soon. This ryo person is not on either the chicago media chat board or chicago radio and media anymore. I laugh when I read those places it's entertaining. Maybe they said to much and got gagged by the company they work for, my guess is Crapulas. The ryo was very insistent that the whole WLS change was part of a bigger plan. So much of what was said seemed like inside information could this no name be right?

This will be interesting to follow in the next few months with CBS and NBC sports looking for homes in the city: khits in limbo and letting the morning show go. WLS dropping all the non rock songs and motown sounds. Merlin radio and WGN teatering and Don and Roma gone. This will be an interesting year for radio!

 

[davideduardo]

The "older" listeners should not be put off as "untouchable". It is the job of any good, competent, advertiser to reach these people.

Advertisers don't advertise if the cost of making the sale is greater than the profit on the sale.

What advertisers have learned via research on sales and ad expenditures is that older demos can be "sold" on things; the problem is that it takes more ad impressions to make the sale. Much of the time, those added impressions mean added expenses and the proposition is not profitable.

What my point is, is that oldies stations cannot be strangled because of an "older demo" or "big/little money". Part of the problem is the advertisers not doing a good enough job, and the salespeople who are lagging as well.

First, there are few "oldies" stations left. In the top 100 markets where about 70% of the population lives, the only oldies stations are marginal facility AMs. What we have in most markets is some form of "classic hits" which is targeted at 35-54 as opposed to the 55+ demos of "oldies."

I just addressed the advertiser side issue. As to salespeople, it is not possible to sell to an advertiser who has established an under-55 target, which is the case with essentially all agency radio buys. Agency buys today are frequently audited by the client to make sure the most efficient buys, the best targeted buys and the best reach & frequency are being obtained. Asking an agency to risk losing an account or asking a buyer to risk losing their job is not a good idea.

 

[cyberdad]

Jumping from board to board in Chicago I see a theme. WLS is bad!

Permit me another clarification. In no way did I intend my earlier post to infer that "WLS is bad". Don't be fooled by one or two holiday ratings books. A growing body of evidence suggests that WLS-FM is headed in the right direction from both an audience and business standpoint (if indeed the two can be separate).

......Whether I happen to like it as a listener or not!

Want your "back in the day" WLS back? Do as I did. Download or otherwise acquire some classic PAMS and Anita Kerr WLS jingles and rotate them on your computer/iPod/iPhone with your favorite vintage tunes. Sure, you won't have your favorite "personalities", but you'll have something that's fun listening and brings back some of the feel of 1OA2GRS.

 

[radiotower40]

Jumping from board to board in Chicago I see a theme. WLS is bad!

Permit me another clarification. In no way did I intend my earlier post to infer that "WLS is bad". Don't be fooled by one or two holiday ratings books. A growing body of evidence suggests that WLS-FM is headed in the right direction from both an audience and business standpoint (if indeed the two can be separate).

......Whether I happen to like it as a listener or not!

Want your "back in the day" WLS back? Do as I did. Download or otherwise acquire some classic PAMS and Anita Kerr WLS jingles and rotate them on your computer/iPod/iPhone with your favorite vintage tunes. Sure, you won't have your favorite "personalities", but you'll have something that's fun listening and brings back some of the feel of 1OA2GRS.

I should clarify myself too. I wasn't taking anyone to the carpet by saying WLS is bad! I find ur writing to be very good cyberdad. You have a good grip on the reality of the industry today. I was generalizing what is written about WLS in most comments on radio talk pages.

Before I sound in insulting to the people who hate what WLS is now and dislike the management, I understand. I have family who say the same as you. I used to like the jazz on WBEZ at night. I was just as mad about that going away as you are about your favorite music thrown out at WLS. I wrote as if I was trying to belittle your point of veiw when I look at it now. I didn't intend to sound that way I apoligize for appearing rude.

David is quite right about the advertising situation. You still have a shot at putting oldies or big band on an AM facility in a small town or a rimshot of major city: not in the big markets. It is mostly loyalty in small markets and rock bottom prices that allow these stations to make it: that isn't even easy these days, I know a couple of small stations doing it and making enough to be happy or survive.

The ones that can do it are owned by folks who have the same passion for the tunes that you do. They will settle for making less money, in some cases little more than breaking even because they love the station they run.

A Chicago comparison would be the WCPT multicast. The owner is a loyal and very weathly member of the Democratic party. He believes that it is important to have a place to go for talk that is not all from the Republican point of view like WLS or WIND. He could make more with the 3 FM stations, he likes the content airing so he is fine with the status quo. Since he owns those stations he can do it.

The agencies are looking for the biggest bang for their buck like David said. I wish it wasn't that way it is the reality however.

 

[uncamark]

A Chicago comparison would be the WCPT multicast. The owner is a loyal and very weathly member of the Democratic party. He believes that it is important to have a place to go for talk that is not all from the Republican point of view like WLS or WIND. He could make more with the 3 FM stations, he likes the content airing so he is fine with the status quo. Since he owns those stations he can do it.

And Fred Eyechaner makes enough money from the two brokered AM foreigh language stations he owns (and the brokered dance music show at night on the FM WCPT stations) to allow him the risk in having WCPT as a progressive talker.

 

[cyberdad]

Nashville: Thanks for the clarifications. I can assure you and everyone that there's no real "bad guy" here in our discussion....certainly not in my eyes. In my perfect world, there'd always be a place for the legendary top 40 tunes, format, and personalities. And no banishing Dick Biondi to an invisible time slot. Or sending him out to what used to be an annual remote and then only "allowing him" to phone in an update (whatever the h*** that is) once or twice an hour. Ugh!

But as has been pointed out by you, me, and others here, that's not how the business operates today in 21st century America.
At least with big signals controlled by major multi-station operators. This isn't Canada where the CRTC can grant a license with the mandate that the station serve a given demo, and settle for whatever revenue and ratings can be gleaned by doing that (e.g. CFZM),

I agree that the only way a niche format can exist is when it is run by a smaller operator with resources and a sense of "mission". Oldies has now, IMHO, become a niche format....at least in terms of how advertisers view it. WCPT is another example....and in this case, Fred is the poster child for who should be running a niche format in a major market. And he's also seemingly figured out a way to make a modest, yet comfortable income doing it.

And, btw, as someone who's politically indpendent, I'm glad his stations are out there as counter-balance to the conservative voices....and in no readily apparent danger of going away locally. Perhaps the "oldies" equivalent of Fred will come along, buy a few rimshots, and bring back all the retro tunes, jocks, etc.

 

[howardm]

We need the conservative stations like WIND & WLS to counteract the liberal path our government is leading us. Their listener ratings are much higher than WCPT.

 

[uncamark]

We need the conservative stations like WIND & WLS to counteract the liberal path our government is leading us. Their listener ratings are much higher than WCPT.

But aging every day. But that's true for *all* talk radio, not just conservative talk.

 

[stevensonair]

And their signals are much stronger, and their marketing budgets and heritage much larger than WCPT's.

 

[cyberdad]

I think there's agreement that there's a body of evidence that suggests the demos that tend to vote democratic...(i.e. younger)...are more inclined to listen to music than talk. Or to a lesser extent...if they listen to talk, they may gravitate to public radio.

In addition to a lack of competitive signals and competitive marketing budgets, the "cause" of liberal talk isn't helped by the fact that there seems to be a paucity of engaging and entertaining hosts. After the top few, the landscape starts to get rather barren.

IMHO, "in a perfect world", there'd be left and right in equal strength and measure to fuel a sprited and CIVIL national debate.

 

[radioman148]

>>IMHO, "in a perfect world", there'd be left and right in equal strength and measure to fuel a sprited and CIVIL national debate.>>

You mean a CIVIL WAR!! ;D

 

[cyberdad]

Sadly....if the two sides keep bickering...you might be right!

 

[Dr Wayne]

Chicago Radio and Media reports the following:
"WLS-FM has added some specialty shows to help boost its slipping ratings. Each weeknight at 7:00pm will be the "70's @ 7." That will be followed each weeknight by the "80's @ 8" at 8:00pm. Both segments will be hosted by Chicago radio legend John Records Landecker. (No, there are no plans for a "60's @ 6" segment.) Additionally, every Friday night at 10:00pm, starting tonight, will be "WLS in Concert." This show will feature an uninterrupted concert performance by one of WLS-FM core artists. Tonight's concert will be by The Eagles."

 

[cyberdad]

Just my own personal take....and not to argue anyone else's....

I don't see this as a shift or tweak in the format. And I question Larz' or whomever's remark about "slipping ratings." The trend was positive before the holiday book(s). If those who left to visit Santa Claus over the holidays don't come back, then I'll agree that management may need to re-think some of what they're doing.

 

[Dr Wayne]

Another big drop in the "Holiday Ratings" for WLS FM!. WLS-FM 4.0 3.8 3.2 2.2

 

[uncamark]

Another big drop in the "Holiday Ratings" for WLS FM!. WLS-FM 4.0 3.8 3.2 2.2

1. Beauty pageant.

2. Check back next month when WLIT out of Christmas mode is measured.

 

[radioman148]

Another big drop in the "Holiday Ratings" for WLS FM!. WLS-FM 4.0 3.8 3.2 2.2

1. Beauty pageant.

2. Check back next month when WLIT out of Christmas mode is measured.

If it was a run of the mill drop I would agree with you, but this is much larger.