WLS-TV Chicago - story on HD Radio

[BruceS8852]

You can check it out at http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=consumer&id=5757958

 

[Mike Walker]

If the "industry is still waiting for HD to 'take off'", then the industry was dropped on it's head in infancy. NO media (or new technology) has "taken off" in that period of time. Not radio itself, not FM, not FM Stereo, not TV, not color TV, not stereo TV, not HDTV, not the internet, not the World Wide Web, not cellular phones, not PCs themselves...NOTHING.

And broadcast media TAKES A WHILE, because if people have working radios or tvs, they will wait until they buy the NEXT ONE to seek out the latest features (or simply have it included).

 

[JohnnyElectron]

At one time, satellite radio was on such a rapid pace that their level was at a faster 'take' rate than DVD's integrated into homes! That has since leveled way out.

 

[Mike Walker]

Not only has satellite radio "leveled out", growth is stagnant. It seems that almost everyone willing to pay for radio (including me) is already doing it. The entire satellite radio market is smaller than one major metro market. And neither of the satellite radio companies have made a red cent for their stockholders. Far from it, they're sinkholes into which billions have been poured. If I were them, I wouldn't say too loudly "our future depends upon a merger", because if it fails, what do you tell your stockholders then?

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Aside from the pro/anti HD argument, I thought Chicago's ABC-7 did a nice job with this segment.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Aside from the pro/anti HD argument, I thought Chicago's ABC-7 did a nice job with this segment.

Two mistakes in the article, though. It said you will "probably" have to buy a new radio. No probably about it - if you want HD radio, you HAVE to buy a new HD radio.

Also, the article leaves the impression that AM stations, too, can have HD-2 channels.

Other than that, a well written piece from the "pro-" perspective.

 

[vsa]

Aside from the pro/anti HD argument, I thought Chicago's ABC-7 did a nice job with this segment.

Two mistakes in the article, though.  It said you will "probably" have to buy a new radio.  No probably about it - if you want HD radio, you HAVE to buy a new HD radio.

Also, the article leaves the impression that AM stations, too, can have HD-2 channels.

Other than that, a well written piece from the "pro-" perspective.

The story mentioned that there's some competition to HD radio these days - like iPods and satellite radio. They neglected to mention a certain form of radio delivery that already reaches more than 20 percent of the population and is growing rapidly. Tiny oversight.

I'm waiting for the follow-up 5 years from now on the story titled "Industry still waiting for HD Radio to take off."

It'll be titled "Industry still waiting for HD Radio to take off."  

I loved the comment made by the sales gal. She said "It's the perfect Christmas gift for the person who has everything because  N-O-B-O-D-Y  has an HD radio."

That ought to be iBiquity's new slogan!

 

[sbe1]

Numerous errors in this piece. FM same as CD, AM same as FM plus the others listed. Millions in advertising? They are counting unsold inventory as advertising... In order to get AM you must use an external antenna. The fact that their former AM WLS has turned it off due to interference, these things were not mentioned.

 

[Radioman100]

Good piece. If RADIO actually promoted HD Radio that well, we might have something significant by now.

I wonder if the break where the jock on WGCI was talking about the HD2 channel was actually on the air or just for the TV crew.

 

[Mike Walker]

The only people really doing a great job with HD, who have a realistic view of what's involved, what it will cost, and how long it will take, is public radio.

Stations need more than jukeboxes to build an audience. But then, that's true of their analog side as well. People don't listen to technology. They listen to PROGRAMMING that appeals, or meets a need.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

I don't know where radioman lives, but the Toledo radio market has promoted the hell out of HD - I bet you hear at least two spots every day, so it's well promoted here, much more than AM Stereo was here after their first week on the air with it.

 

[Radioman100]

I don't know where radioman lives, but the Toledo radio market has promoted the hell out of HD - I bet you hear at least two spots every day, so it's well promoted here, much more than AM Stereo was here after their first week on the air with it.

It's not about the quantity of promotion, it's the quality. The TV piece showed specific benefits that HD offers. Specific formats that people wouldn't be aware of unless they bought an HD Radio first.

Getting people to drop $200 to hear "stations between the stations" or just something isn't very likely. If people want non-stop, commercial free old school hip-hop and R&B, the people that watched that piece now know it's available to them via WGCI-HD2.

With the exception of a few Greater Media stations, I've yet to see ANY radio stations touting the formats of their HD2 channels in any meaningful way.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Getting people to drop $200 to hear "stations between the stations" or just something isn't very likely. If people want non-stop, commercial free old school hip-hop and R&B, the people that

That promotion has done more to promote second adjacent rimshots in this area than it has HD. Hearing the phrase "stations between the stations" - what is the average person going to do? At least here in Dallas - depending on where they live - they are going to find KMAD, KLAK, and a whole host of other rim shots. And surprisingly good, fresh programming that they aren't getting on the locals.
Those rim shots give you at least as many, if not more formats than are available on HD-2.

I think they should re-think that "stations between the stations" ad campaign. The worst nightmare for locals is a rim shot coming in and taking listeners because they do the job better.

 

[Radioman100]

That promotion has done more to promote second adjacent rimshots in this area than it has HD. Hearing the phrase "stations between the stations" - what is the average person going to do? At least here in Dallas - depending on where they live - they are going to find KMAD, KLAK, and a whole host of other rim shots. And surprisingly good, fresh programming that they aren't getting on the locals.
Those rim shots give you at least as many, if not more formats than are available on HD-2.

I think they should re-think that "stations between the stations" ad campaign. The worst nightmare for locals is a rim shot coming in and taking listeners because they do the job better.

I agree completely with your assessment that the "stations between the stations" campaign has probably done more to promote rimshots than HD, but you have to be out of your mind if you seriously think the rimshots deliver "at least as many, if not more formats than are available on HD-2."

KMAD and KLAK are two stations. Name 38 more that the average person can pick up without a deep fringe antenna and directional rotator at their home or work. Name a few rimshots in the area that are programming something new or different like smooth jazz, gay radio or all 90s. 90% of the rimshots available in the DFW area are programming some satellite delivered crap, usually country or Spanish.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

KMAD and KLAK are two stations. Name 38 more that the average person can pick up without a deep fringe antenna and directional rotator at their home or work. Name a few rimshots in the area that are programming something new or different like smooth jazz, gay radio or all 90s. 90% of the rimshots available in the DFW area are programming some satellite delivered crap, usually country or Spanish.

I don't think there are anything close to 38 HD-2's and HD-3's in the DFW market.

Some of us would say that gay radio is a misnomer - it is pride radio. Gay posters have pointed out, and I think correctly, that their musical tastes are no different than straight people. Still, I don't thing very many non-gays would listen to pride radio. That is one HD-2 in the market, Spanish top 40 another, all Beatles another - I know there is a very vocal smooth Jazz fan on the DFW board who touts the HD-2 on "Movin".

Other DFW rim shots - keep in mind that in Texas, with flat Terrain, tall towers, and 100kW - rim shots work a little differently than in other markets. KOOI is viable for South and East suburbs, playing the "sunny" format and smooth jazz Sunday mornings. Fort Worth listeners do not get KMAD - they get a classic rocker in Waco, which also has a country on 99.9 and oldies on 95.7 that are so strong seek buttons stop on them in the car. Northern and Western suburbs get KNIN 92.9, nominally top-40 that plays some 80's and 90's. Southern Dallas and Ft. Worth get a very popular country spin - "the Ranch" on 106.9 - locally produced format that is quite different. Similar rim shots come in on 92.1 from Weatherford in the West and Farmersville in the East. The same owner of the 92.1 Farmersville also has a rim shot country station on 95.3. Translators bring in the Calvary Chapel network on two or three frequencies - they have a rim shot on 91.3.

And so forth - there are probably as many, if not more rimshots carrying distinct formats from the main analog and HD-1 signals than there are distinct formats on HD-2 and HD-3 in the area. All have small, but devoted followings. And that is enough for advertisers to buy air time - and to pay the bills for the owners.

 

[Radioman100]

I don't think there are anything close to 38 HD-2's and HD-3's in the DFW market.

Some of us would say that gay radio is a misnomer - it is pride radio. Gay posters have pointed out, and I think correctly, that their musical tastes are no different than straight people. Still, I don't thing very many non-gays would listen to pride radio. That is one HD-2 in the market, Spanish top 40 another, all Beatles another - I know there is a very vocal smooth Jazz fan on the DFW board who touts the HD-2 on "Movin".

Other DFW rim shots - keep in mind that in Texas, with flat Terrain, tall towers, and 100kW - rim shots work a little differently than in other markets. KOOI is viable for South and East suburbs, playing the "sunny" format and smooth jazz Sunday mornings. Fort Worth listeners do not get KMAD - they get a classic rocker in Waco, which also has a country on 99.9 and oldies on 95.7 that are so strong seek buttons stop on them in the car. Northern and Western suburbs get KNIN 92.9, nominally top-40 that plays some 80's and 90's. Southern Dallas and Ft. Worth get a very popular country spin - "the Ranch" on 106.9 - locally produced format that is quite different. Similar rim shots come in on 92.1 from Weatherford in the West and Farmersville in the East. The same owner of the 92.1 Farmersville also has a rim shot country station on 95.3. Translators bring in the Calvary Chapel network on two or three frequencies - they have a rim shot on 91.3.

And so forth - there are probably as many, if not more rimshots carrying distinct formats from the main analog and HD-1 signals than there are distinct formats on HD-2 and HD-3 in the area. All have small, but devoted followings. And that is enough for advertisers to buy air time - and to pay the bills for the owners.

I find it really hard to believe that anyone in Dallas except DXers would be listening to the same formats they have locally off sticks in Wichita Falls and Waco. Nor do I believe they would listen to satellite automated formats of the same music they have on Dallas stations from the north.

The only viable rimshot format you listed is "The Ranch" and if I remember correctly, its studios are in Fort Worth or a suburb. Since The Wolf all but abandoned Texas Country, that's probably a viable format for the area that's not on a full-market stick.

The rest are poor facsimilies of formats already on full-market sticks. HD2 in DFW offers way more format choice.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I find it really hard to believe that anyone in Dallas except DXers would be listening to the same formats they have locally off sticks in Wichita Falls and Waco. Nor do I believe they would listen to satellite automated formats of the same music they have on Dallas stations from the north.

Next time you are out here, drive around a bit - you would be surprised how well the other market stations do even on a normal car radio.

I know you denigrate the format on KMAD - but it is all about the music. Who cares if its satellite - they are sure playing a lot better classic rock songs than KBDN. Same with the other stations. KNIN has a following because it is top-40 without excessive ethnicity - KISS-FM is a train wreck of a format - is it trying to be top-40, or is it trying to be hip-hop? So Far NW suburbs have KNIN, and there is a top-40 97.5 in Waco that isn't beat up too badly by the KLAK move-in. Yes - people in South Ft. Worth do tune in Waco, just as people in Waco tune in DFW stations. They are VERY strong - no DX really required. I doubt the average person tuning in a rim shot gives 2 cents about DX, probably never heard the term. They just tune, hear something they like, and listen. Will they ever show up in ratings - probably not - but out of market rim shots do have a following and its not necessarily just hobbyists.

 

[Radioman100]

I find it really hard to believe that anyone in Dallas except DXers would be listening to the same formats they have locally off sticks in Wichita Falls and Waco. Nor do I believe they would listen to satellite automated formats of the same music they have on Dallas stations from the north.

Next time you are out here, drive around a bit - you would be surprised how well the other market stations do even on a normal car radio.

I know you denigrate the format on KMAD - but it is all about the music. Who cares if its satellite - they are sure playing a lot better classic rock songs than KBDN. Same with the other stations. KNIN has a following because it is top-40 without excessive ethnicity - KISS-FM is a train wreck of a format - is it trying to be top-40, or is it trying to be hip-hop? So Far NW suburbs have KNIN, and there is a top-40 97.5 in Waco that isn't beat up too badly by the KLAK move-in. Yes - people in South Ft. Worth do tune in Waco, just as people in Waco tune in DFW stations. They are VERY strong - no DX really required. I doubt the average person tuning in a rim shot gives 2 cents about DX, probably never heard the term. They just tune, hear something they like, and listen. Will they ever show up in ratings - probably not - but out of market rim shots do have a following and its not necessarily just hobbyists.

If people want KISS-FM without the hip hop, that's what KDMX is for. I doubt too many people in Dallas are listening to classic rock period. It did so badly that KZPS dumped the format.

Sorry, I really hate to burst your bubble, but people in market #5 aren't looking to DX the unrated market satellite classic rock KMAD or CHR from market #265 KNIN any more than people in Lubbock want to DX Radio Disney from Dallas. You've preached that gospel before. I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now.

However, if you're looking for a CHR alternative to KHKS you might want to check out KPLX-HD2. It's been getting good reviews on the Dallas board.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Sorry, I really hate to burst your bubble, but people in market #5 aren't looking to DX the unrated market satellite classic rock KMAD or CHR from market #265 KNIN any more than people in Lubbock want to DX Radio Disney from Dallas. You've preached that gospel before. I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now.

However, if you're looking for a CHR alternative to KHKS you might want to check out KPLX-HD2. It's been getting good reviews on the Dallas board.

I met the kids in Lubbock. Deal with it. The station is strong out there, you don't necessarily need a GE SR-3. As strong as 620 is with 5kW, 660 sounds almost local out there with 20kW, and I am sure it has a following.

I don't preach anything. I stated an experience I had. Maybe YOU want shock radio jocks, or filthy lyrics, or whatever it is you want, but there is quite backlash among kids and their parents. I was astonished at the comments KIDS made about the recent Hannah Montana concert. KIDS were saying they liked her because she is clean, and a good role model. No parents in sight to coach the answer.

Given a fanatical fan base like that, a reasonably good signal, it is a no brainer that kids dialing around the dial would listen to 620 in Lubbock. Period. They aren't being "DX'ers", I doubt they even know the term. So what if the station reaches Lubbock - why are you getting on MY case about a listening decision kids make on their own? I hardly listen to the station any more myself because IBOC makes the audio sound terrible, and HD group delay distortion gives me listener fatigue in minutes. But when they were C-Quam their audio was great, and their signal amazing. Given the ground conductivity out there, it is no surprise the signal is so strong.

Now, if I had gotten on here and claimed the 620 in Milwaukee had listeners 300 miles away, or maybe the big 570 in Yankston - you wouldn't have relentlessly insulted me. Their range is well documented, as is their audience. I'm merely reporting that a 620 in Dallas has such a good signal in Lubbock, 330 miles away, that it has a small following. WHY do you insist upon insulting me repeatedly? I personally heard two kids - contest winners - state that they lived in Lubbock, and listened on 620. Am I not to believe my ears? I wasn't even listening a lot at the time, nor was I listening for a pre-conceived outcome.

The network - and the station - have listeners out in West Texas. Not my imagination - not me with some agenda. Just fact.

As far as KMAD - I just bought some batteries at the battery store on Central Expressway on Saturday. KMAD was playing. They weren't even using a dipole, the signal is so strong. And I can add that to a car repair place and a couple of other businesses that play it. The signal is STRONG in Collin county.

KNIN's signal isn't very strong in Collin County. But in Denton, Tarrant, and the Northwestern parts of the area, the seek button stops on it. If it's playing a good song, people will listen. When it plays a lousy song, they are off to KISS FM or something else. The power of the pushbutton or seek button.

Isn't KPLX is a tired old country station? I would say that would have even less appeal to me than Spanish foreign language stuff.

 

[Radioman100]

I met the kids in Lubbock. Deal with it. The station is strong out there, you don't necessarily need a GE SR-3. As strong as 620 is with 5kW, 660 sounds almost local out there with 20kW, and I am sure it has a following.

My niece loves Radio Disney. I used to play it for her in the car back when I had XM. If Radio Disney has any listeners in Lubbock, and I'm sure it does, I'm also sure they're on XM or Sirius or some alternate delivery mechanism. They're not trying to listen to it from KMKI. No freakin' way.

I don't preach anything. I stated an experience I had. Maybe YOU want shock radio jocks, or filthy lyrics, or whatever it is you want, but there is quite backlash among kids and their parents. I was astonished at the comments KIDS made about the recent Hannah Montana concert. KIDS were saying they liked her because she is clean, and a good role model. No parents in sight to coach the answer.

I have nothing against Radio Disney. I just think it's highly unlikely people are buying GE superadios in Lubbock in an attempt to pull it in. Think about the audience. I hate to make Mark Ramsey's argument for him, but my 7 year old niece can operate a computer. She can listen to Radio Disney online. I'm almost certain she can't operate a GE superadio, and certainly wouldn't know to turn the radio itself to get a better signal.

Given a fanatical fan base like that, a reasonably good signal, it is a no brainer that kids dialing around the dial would listen to 620 in Lubbock. Period. They aren't being "DX'ers", I doubt they even know the term. So what if the station reaches Lubbock - why are you getting on MY case about a listening decision kids make on their own? I hardly listen to the station any more myself because IBOC makes the audio sound terrible, and HD group delay distortion gives me listener fatigue in minutes. But when they were C-Quam their audio was great, and their signal amazing. Given the ground conductivity out there, it is no surprise the signal is so strong.

I'm getting on your case because it's a simply implausible story. I don't deny that Hannah Montana fans are fanatical. I just don't think those fanatical kids are listening to Radio Disney in Lubbock via KMKI Dallas.

Now, if I had gotten on here and claimed the 620 in Milwaukee had listeners 300 miles away, or maybe the big 570 in Yankston - you wouldn't have relentlessly insulted me. Their range is well documented, as is their audience. I'm merely reporting that a 620 in Dallas has such a good signal in Lubbock, 330 miles away, that it has a small following. WHY do you insist upon insulting me repeatedly? I personally heard two kids - contest winners - state that they lived in Lubbock, and listened on 620. Am I not to believe my ears? I wasn't even listening a lot at the time, nor was I listening for a pre-conceived outcome.

The network - and the station - have listeners out in West Texas. Not my imagination - not me with some agenda. Just fact.

Yeah, I'll believe that claim when I hear the airchecks.

As far as KMAD - I just bought some batteries at the battery store on Central Expressway on Saturday. KMAD was playing. They weren't even using a dipole, the signal is so strong. And I can add that to a car repair place and a couple of other businesses that play it. The signal is STRONG in Collin county.

KNIN's signal isn't very strong in Collin County. But in Denton, Tarrant, and the Northwestern parts of the area, the seek button stops on it. If it's playing a good song, people will listen. When it plays a lousy song, they are off to KISS FM or something else. The power of the pushbutton or seek button.

This is exactly my argument for why HD2 will succeed. When HD becomes a standard feature of most new radios, this is how people will "discover it!"

Isn't KPLX is a tired old country station? I would say that would have even less appeal to me than Spanish foreign language stuff.

I dunno... KPLX-HD2 doesn't sound like a "tired old country station" to me! http://www.tophour.com/audio/Dallas-Fort%20Worth%20TX/fm0995_2007-04_kplx-hd2_cstelly.mp3