Worst classic hits station?

[SolidGold16]

60s, 70s, and some 80s - heavy on the 70s. Playlist of over 10,000 songs, nothing repeated for months at a time. No commercials.

That would be phenomenal, especially for the power songs. Will check it out.

I think you'll like it, Oldies. It's pretty much what we've been asking for: variety without repetition.

Here's part of an e-mail I got yesterday from Dr Dr Thayer, the guy that owns/runs the station:

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Actually I bought WZPH in March, 2005 and switched the format from "The Switch" (cont. Religious music) to Good Time Oldies, which was basically 1954-1973. After the first 100,000 songs in a row, I noticed a burn factor. Even with EVERY hit in those 20 years, every song was getting close to 100 spins. Experimenting with rotations did not help, because it's simple math. With a playlist of 1200, that means each song is going to be played 100 times by the time you play 120,000.

The playlist expanded. You probably know most stations have around 600 songs on classic hit stations, so WZPH had the deepest list. The 80's format station in Tampa went CHR, leaving the hole. Thus the expansion was natural. Now, at 10,000 songs, every one million means each song is played 100 times....but in 6 years, it is tolerable.

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Sounds like Dr Dr Thayer thinks like we do! I've been listening since yesterday, and haven't heard anything repeated. I don't think I'll be hearing the same song twice for months. Finally!

 

[KFodor]

60s, 70s, and some 80s - heavy on the 70s. Playlist of over 10,000 songs, nothing repeated for months at a time. No commercials.

That would be phenomenal, especially for the power songs. Will check it out.

I think you'll like it, Oldies. It's pretty much what we've been asking for: variety without repetition.

Here's part of an e-mail I got yesterday from Dr Dr Thayer, the guy that owns/runs the station:

-------------------------

Actually I bought WZPH in March, 2005 and switched the format from "The Switch" (cont. Religious music) to Good Time Oldies, which was basically 1954-1973. After the first 100,000 songs in a row, I noticed a burn factor. Even with EVERY hit in those 20 years, every song was getting close to 100 spins. Experimenting with rotations did not help, because it's simple math. With a playlist of 1200, that means each song is going to be played 100 times by the time you play 120,000.

The playlist expanded. You probably know most stations have around 600 songs on classic hit stations, so WZPH had the deepest list. The 80's format station in Tampa went CHR, leaving the hole. Thus the expansion was natural. Now, at 10,000 songs, every one million means each song is played 100 times....but in 6 years, it is tolerable.

--------------------------

Sounds like Dr Dr Thayer thinks like we do! I've been listening since yesterday, and haven't heard anything repeated. I don't think I'll be hearing the same song twice for months. Finally!

And you will never, ever gain a mass audience with this approach. Period.

 

[cspotrun]

i bet cha "Brown Eyed Girl" is on every list of "Safe Songs" for a power playlist for classic hits.. in looking over lists of so called safe songs on a consultants 600 song playlist.. you will find they are ALL crispy and burnt to a crisp like Brown Eyed Girl, because everyone is using THAT list..... the audience is more tolarant than you think of songs that didn't make the top-10, but are none the less remembered, and enjoyed. there is a place for brown eyed girl, but there is also a place for songs that make the WOW FACTOR. hey i like pizza, but i wouldn't want it every night for dinner.

 

[davideduardo]

i bet cha "Brown Eyed Girl" is on every list of "Safe Songs" for a power playlist for classic hits.. in looking over lists of so called safe songs on a consultants 600 song playlist..

The myth of the "safe list" lives on.

Today, there are few active independent consultants. Most companies with a dozen or so stations or more have in-house programming talent to oversee the individual stations. Bigger groups have format or genre specialists who do nothing but work with stations within a format or format area.

Some markets can't afford to do music tests.

If they are part of a big group, they get the benefit of projects done by larger sister stations, generally with preference to the more similar markets (Cleveland and Pittsburgh would share with Wheeling, not with Modesto).

If they are independent, they may use BDS or MediaBase lists to get guidance, right down to the rotatations.

A new station in a format might combine the test lists of all the passing and marginal songs at sister stations of the same format. Then they would test them to find which fit the local market.

Music test lists are dynamic... a 6 month old list is ancient history, even in gold based formats. So the idea that there is a permanent safe list is absurd.

"Brown Eyed Girl" is played because the target audience of classic hits stations wants to hear it. Today.

The audience is more tolarant than you think of songs that didn't make the top-10, but are none the less remembered, and enjoyed. there is a place for brown eyed girl, but there is also a place for songs that make the WOW FACTOR.

If you had ever analyzed test results yourself, you'd know that your statement is more fond hopes than real facts. When you see songs with significant scores that translate into "I hate it" you know that you can't play them. And when you have access to MediaMonitors and their MScores you know how horribly damaging it can be to listenership when one of those songs is played.

And you would also know that where a song ranked on a national chart is quite irrelevant. The important thing is to get listener feedback about what songs people want to hear on the radio today... and what songs they don't want to hear, ever.

 

[lost45]

Any that plays 200 titles or less...Greatest Hits of the 70s & 80s? Um, your missing 95% of them!

 

[CTListener]

Any that plays 200 titles or less...Greatest Hits of the 70s & 80s? Um, your missing 95% of them!

No classic hits station is playing that few titles.

 

[davideduardo]

Any that plays 200 titles or less...Greatest Hits of the 70s & 80s? Um, your missing 95% of them!

• Not everything that was a hit back then is still a hit
• The average playlist for a classic hits station is between 700 and 800 songs, not including weekend specials

 

[oldies76]

• Not everything that was a hit back then is still a hit

Once a hit, always a hit.

A top ten song, will always be top 10. All the songs that hit #1 then, are still number ones today. "Billie Jean" is just as number one as "You Light Up My Life" or "Delta Dawn", in 1983, 1977, 1973, or today. Some people may not like "Delta Dawn" today, but it's still a #1 song and it's still a hit song.

 

[oldies76]

Any that plays 200 titles or less...Greatest Hits of the 70s & 80s? Um, your missing 95% of them!

Even at 800 titles on a playlist, radio is still ignoring about 90% of the top 20 hits from 1964 to 1985. :

 

[davideduardo]

Any that plays 200 titles or less...Greatest Hits of the 70s & 80s? Um, your missing 95% of them!

Even at 800 titles on a playlist, radio is still ignoring about 90% of the top 20 hits from 1964 to 1985. :

They are playing ALL the songs that are hits today within the target demographics.

 

[davideduardo]

• Not everything that was a hit back then is still a hit

Once a hit, always a hit.

Only if you are a music historian. But not if you are a listener.

A top ten song, will always be top 10. All the songs that hit #1 then, are still number ones today.

Nope. Listeners today want songs they still like today. The #2 rank in 1970 was only relevant in the particular week that the song charted at #1.

The appeal of many songs has been totally lost. That of others has diminished. Others still are likable to a broad group of people in the 35-54 classic hits target demo, and those get played.

 

[oldies76]

Nope. Listeners today want songs they still like today. The #2 rank in 1970 was only relevant in the particular week that the song charted at #1.

The appeal of many songs has been totally lost. That of others has diminished. Others still are likable to a broad group of people in the 35-54 classic hits target demo, and those get played.

It's still a number one song today, per the music charts of then and in lists shown today in many music chart books and other sources.

"Rock Around the Clock" is a number one song and has been since 1955. If I were airing every #1 song on a weekend special, it would be called a number hits weekend today.

The appeal has been lost, because people have simply forgotten them, since no one has played them for some time. Re-introduce those songs today and the appeal will return for most of them. Just play them and the oh-wow factor kicks in. You'd be surprised as to how many lost songs people would enjoy once again today. Just play the classics....something a classic hits station should be doing. ;D

 

[allenv]

Songs are like many other things out of sight.. or ear... out of mind...Don't mean people don't want to hear them on radio...They are simply not getting played... good bad or indifferent and what can Joe listener do about it??? write or call the station but most of the time that does no good. Nothing changes...Listeners who call radio stations used to have their opinions respected but now they seem to be considered fringe element who don't represent the average listener..Maybe so..maybe not..

 

[lost45]

They CAN play all those charted records in the context of a weekend specialty show and daily feature (hint, hint)!

 

[RIN3GUY]

I fully agree with the last three posters! A creative show like Barry's is more of what radio needs. There is NO song that is so good that it needs to be played more than once or twice a week. A core playlist of 300-800 songs is fine, but if that's ALL that is played, then dedicated listeners and music lovers get bored beyond belief because you can hear a station's entire library in just a few days' time! THAT is what causes me to station hop, whereas playing "deeper cuts" (#10-#40) maintains interest and my tuner seldom wanders. A station's music should have some mystique and an element of surprise, not the predictability of a treadmill.

 

[oldies76]

I fully agree with the last three posters! A creative show like Barry's is more of what radio needs. There is NO song that is so good that it needs to be played more than once or twice a week. A core playlist of 300-800 songs is fine, but if that's ALL that is played, then dedicated listeners and music lovers get bored beyond belief because you can hear a station's entire library in just a few days' time! THAT is what causes me to station hop, whereas playing "deeper cuts" (#10-#40) maintains interest and my tuner seldom wanders. A station's music should have some mystique and an element of surprise, not the predictability of a treadmill.

A core playlist with 800 songs may fly some of the time, but I would add the 2 to 4 "lost hits" per hour to mix things up nicely. Did you check out WCBS's Top 500 countdown this weekend? "Brown Eyed Girl" at #37....you'd think it would have hit #1. ;D The entire list is posted (as a link) on another thread under the New York market category. Actually there are a bunch of nice songs this year. Check it out if you've got a chance. Tomorrow should be a re-run of the final 200 positions.

A station's music should have some mystique and an element of surprise, not the predictability of a treadmill.

The "oh wow" factor that many in fact could experience, but can't due to radio's stubborness!

 

[davideduardo]

There is NO song that is so good that it needs to be played more than once or twice a week.

If that were true, then a station would need something like 1700 songs in the library.

And, if that were true, the average listener would hear a particular song every 7 to 8 months, and the average listener would hear them maybe once a year.

(Heavy listeners average around 7 to 8 weekly hours with a station, while light listeners may spend less than three hours a week)... this in PPM markets, of course.

A core playlist of 300-800 songs is fine

The smallest library I have seen on a classic hits station is just over 600 songs. Most are in the 800 song range.

but if that's ALL that is played, then dedicated listeners and music lovers get bored beyond belief because you can hear a station's entire library in just a few days' time!

... if they listen 24 hours a day. And nobody does that.

Besides, "dedicated listeners" are called, in the trade, "P1" listeners. Or "Preference level 1" meaning they listen to a particular station more than any other. P1 listeners average about 7 hours a week with their favorite station.

Average listening in PPM markets is around 12 hours a week, with the average listener using 5 to 6 different stations during the week. If a listener tunes in and does not hear what they came for... in this case the biggest, "most favorite" memory tunes... they are gone.

A station's music should have some mystique and an element of surprise, not the predictability of a treadmill.

"I know they always play songs I like" is the zenith of predictability. And that's why stations do music testing... to find out the songs "everybody" likes. Predictability like that causes people to return over and over to a station.

Stiffs make them unlikely candidates for return visits. And songs that charted at #40 several decades ago are 00.9% pure stiffs.

 

[oldies76]

And songs that charted at #40 several decades ago are 00.9% pure stiffs.

0.9% stiffs? Agreed. ;D

 

[davideduardo]

And songs that charted at #40 several decades ago are 00.9% pure stiffs.

0.9% stiffs? Agreed. ;D

Obviously, with the board problems of the last 10 day, the correction / edit of my post got lost...

"songs that charted at #40 several decades ago are 99.99% pure stiffs."

In fact, songs that chart at #40 and go no higher in any era or year are stiffs.

 

[RIN3GUY]

These all "stiffs," Eduardo? Really? You'd better think again.

1964:
From Me to You - Beatles (#41)
All My Loving - Beatles (#45)
You Can't Do That - Beatles (#48)
If I Fell - Beatles (#53)
I Should Have Known Better - Beatles (#53)

1969:
Lodi - Creedence Clearwater Revival (#52)

1970:
New World Coming - Mama Cass Elliott (#42)

1972:
Tiny Dancer - Elton John (#41)

1973:
Roll Over Beethoven - ELO (#42)
You Can't Always Get What You Want - Rolling Stones (#42)
Tequila Sunrise - Eagles (#64)

1975:
Changes - David Bowie (#41)

1976:
Still Crazy After These Years - Paul Simon (#40)
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da - Beatles (#49)

1978:
Blame It on the Boogie - Jacksons (#54)
Wheel In the Sky - Journey (#57)
Time For Me to Fly - REO Speedwagon (#56)
Roll With the Changes - REO Speedwagon (#58)
Surrender - Cheap Trick (#62)
Lights - Journey (#68)

1979:
Good Times Roll - Cars (#41)
It's All I Can Do - Cars (#41)
Message In a Bottle - Police (#74)

1980:
Switchin' to Glide - Kings (#43)
Rock Lobster - B-52's (#56)

1981:
Tempted - Squeeze (#49)

1983:
It's Raining Men - Weather Girls (#46)

1994:
American Girl - Tom Petty (#109)