Would a OGL, YSP flip flop work??

[KlassikKountry]

It is a known fact that the Active Rock audiance is bigger, spends greater and is more advertiser friendly than the moldy oldies crowd. YSP always had higher numbers than OGL on the music end. Why don't the briefcase bandits move the Oldies format to 94.1, sandwiched inbetween the chatter and move the Active Rock format to 98.1, FULL TIME. Do they think the soccer moms and Motown freaks that make up most of OGL's audiance, could not take the vulgar talk until 7pm and weekends, when the oldies take over and visa versa with the Rock freaks that love that kind of talk mixed with their music. Bottom line is, put Active Rock on 98.1 24/7/365 and block program the oldies on 94.1 mixed with the hot talk. When the talk format fails in time, 94.1 could revert back to oldies 24/7/365. Just a thought.

 

[pianorox]

You know, the oldies interspersed with talk thing worked for NJ101.5 for a long time. It's only been a few years since they've relegated the music to weekends only. I remember driving around in the car with my mom, listening to Jon & Ken. One minute they'd be mouthing off about the horrors of Jim Florio, and the next you're hearing The Temptations. I thought it worked...maybe just because I grew up with it. Still, I think the Free FM people might just be a little bit to vulgar and the chatter a little too sexual for the "soccer moms and Motown freaks" no matter what time you'd put it on.

But, yeah, oldies talk worked before and it could work again...but those Free FM dudes would have to seriously tone things down.

I'm just curious, but if there's no room for the alternative rock format in Philadelphia, why would an active rock format work? I know that they are two quite different formats, but I'm under the impression that they aim for the same demographic. Well, maybe alternative can be made to skew more female, which would be harder with active rock.

YSP was (and I could be dead wrong here, tell me if I am) pretty close to being an active rock station when it was all music, and the music was canned. Why do you think a full time active rock station would work right now?

And as for active rock fans spending more money...not the ones I know, man.





> It is a known fact that the Active Rock audiance is bigger,
> spends greater and is more advertiser friendly than the
> moldy oldies crowd. YSP always had higher numbers than OGL
> on the music end. Why don't the briefcase bandits move the
> Oldies format to 94.1, sandwiched inbetween the chatter and
> move the Active Rock format to 98.1, FULL TIME. Do they
> think the soccer moms and Motown freaks that make up most of
> OGL's audiance, could not take the vulgar talk until 7pm and
> weekends, when the oldies take over and visa versa with the
> Rock freaks that love that kind of talk mixed with their
> music. Bottom line is, put Active Rock on 98.1 24/7/365 and
> block program the oldies on 94.1 mixed with the hot talk.
> When the talk format fails in time, 94.1 could revert back
> to oldies 24/7/365. Just a thought.
>

 

[SCRHack]

> It is a known fact that the Active Rock audiance is bigger,
> spends greater and is more advertiser friendly than the
> moldy oldies crowd.

Where is this a known fact?

 

[KlassikKountry]

YSP is the closest thing to Active Rock in the area we have nowadays. They were true Active when DeBella, Toxic and Cerfh, were on board when they made the transistion from Classic Rock. That is when they were Active Rock in its purest form, 1995-2000. The Rat was also pure Active when they first signed on. Active satisfies both Rock and Alternative tastes, when most of the stations in your market are some brand of urban, and there is nothing to listen to. Active takes the best of older Hard and Metal cuts plus new hard rock. They also take hard past Alternative cuts and add new ones, so they kinda satisfy the Rockers taste. I tried MMR last night and instead of hearing Cord, the relic was on once again, blabbing about how great he is and how all these bands hang with him. This is not an Active rocker, too many soft Classic rock tunes, not enough new music (where is the new HIM). MMR might be OK to the people that stuck with them for years and heard nothing else, but if you want good Rock, they are not the place to go, I still do not know what you can classify them as. At this moment in time, YSP is still the best of the worst, music wise.

 

[Wil]

> YSP is the closest thing to Active Rock in the area we have
> nowadays. They were true Active when DeBella, Toxic and
> Cerfh, were on board when they made the transistion from
> Classic Rock.

Cerph was/is a classic rock DJ, he left YSP when they abandoned the classic rock format (which was way better than MGK's classic rock format is now)

MMR might be OK to the people
> that stuck with them for years and heard nothing else, but
> if you want good Rock, they are not the place to go,

Just your opinion, doesn't mean its the only opinion.


I still
> do not know what you can classify them as.

They bill themselves as "everything that rocks". That is why they play classic rock (too much in my opinion), alternative rock, some 80's rock and some active rock.

P & S played the new HIM song today also, which I think should get more airplay, along with the new Seether, etc..., but its not going to happen here. The average active rock listener has already abandoned radio for satellite, and most are not coming back.

 

[vumeter]

Perhaps you should research prior to an " everyone knows" post.While Active Rock is an exciting ,vibrant format, it is an 18-34 format.The buying community,(like it or not) influences formatic viability concerns with advertiising support dollars. Probably 80% of the business in a market like this is targeted to 25-54, which Active rock is not. Don't misunderstand me, Active rock is a great format and Philadelphia listeners deserve one, but most broadcasters with fiscal responsibility would not change a successful adult oriented station for a youth one. If someone had an unsuccessful format or it made cluster sense, Active rock would fit the bill. But in the place of an adult branded entity with decades of success...not likely.

 

[Wil]

You mistook me for KlassiKKountry

> Perhaps you should research prior to an " everyone knows"
> post.

I think you may have mistook me for the original poster. I did not originate the 'everyone knows" post, that was KlassiKKountry who supports his opinion with the words "everyone knows", instead of using actual facts.

Other than that, I totally agree with what you say. "Everyone knows" more often than not means "this is my opinion, and therefore, everyone's opinion"

Like you, I have to believe that if there was a market for a full time Active Rock station in market #6, then we would have one! Apparently the people running CC, GM, etc... do not see Active Rock as being marketable here. If there were $$$ to be made they would be on it already. I guess everyone doesn't know!!<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Wil on 03/15/06 05:08 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[eGillCVI]

Why even respond? Seriously. Applying attention doesn't make these problems go away. LOL

> Where is this a known fact?
>

 

[pianorox]

Lots of conjecture, emotionally-based conclusion drawing, fun things like that.

*sighs and smiles* Ah, the Rat. I grew up with them. What would you call them these days? When I do get back to Central Jersey, they sound harder than MMR to me. WRAT is located in what I think is the most suburban area on the face of the earth (we weren't a suburb of NY, we weren't a suburb of Philadelphia, proud to be Central Jersey, a suburb for the sake of a suburb).

So, yeah, WRAT worked in a suburban area. You know, kids pumping up the WRAT on the speakers in Mom's minivan while driving to the mall on a Friday night. I for one, while sitting in the aforementioned minivan, would scream along with the Soundgarden and suffer quietly through the nu-metal. Anyway, Philadelphia, and even its suburbs, have a very urban blue-collar character. I'm making huge sweeping generalizations, but when I think of the WMMR listener, I think of guys from Northeast and South Philly turning on the boomboxes in factories and machine shops. Enough new stuff to please the younger guys and older stuff for the oldheads. I feel like there's a sizable audience for the older skewing yet still youthful rock of MMR. It's working man's rock, and this is a blue collar area.

So that begs the question, what are the kids into around here? A hard alternative station, to me, conjures up images of an endless suburb with nothing but cookie-cutter houses as far as the eye can see. Suburban kids here have the city very close by. The city brings a kind of hope, I guess. Life outside the 'burbs. So, if you have that hope, if you have that city close by that you can run to on weekends, what kind of music are you listening to?

So, yeah, long story short: I guess "active rock" screams "suburban teenage angst" to me, and that's why I think it isn't on the radio in Philadelphia right now...because even Philly's 'burbs aren't all that suburban.



> YSP is the closest thing to Active Rock in the area we have
> nowadays. They were true Active when DeBella, Toxic and
> Cerfh, were on board when they made the transistion from
> Classic Rock. That is when they were Active Rock in its
> purest form, 1995-2000. The Rat was also pure Active when
> they first signed on. Active satisfies both Rock and
> Alternative tastes, when most of the stations in your market
> are some brand of urban, and there is nothing to listen to.
> Active takes the best of older Hard and Metal cuts plus new
> hard rock. They also take hard past Alternative cuts and
> add new ones, so they kinda satisfy the Rockers taste. I
> tried MMR last night and instead of hearing Cord, the relic
> was on once again, blabbing about how great he is and how
> all these bands hang with him. This is not an Active
> rocker, too many soft Classic rock tunes, not enough new
> music (where is the new HIM). MMR might be OK to the people
> that stuck with them for years and heard nothing else, but
> if you want good Rock, they are not the place to go, I still
> do not know what you can classify them as. At this moment
> in time, YSP is still the best of the worst, music wise.
>

 

[musicrrrr]

Come on guys...there is only one reason

Like you, I have to believe that if there was a market for a
> full time Active Rock station in market #6, then we would
> have one!

Nope. The reason rock is disappearing is because it's not diverse enough. It separates the races instead of bringing them together. Young white youth will embrace Rap/ Hip Hop before before the young black audience will embrace Rock.

The suits who control radio and records are on a diversity celebrating, everyone's exactly alike and equal "kick" and the cultures need to come together and embrace the same thoughts, ideals, beliefs, and opinions.

Of course there is a market for Rock in Philadelphia. Those who control the radio and records DON'T WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO IT ANYMORE. In their minds, Rock music is a form of caucasian culture, and they want our youth to believe that it is the most evil and despicable culture on the face of the planet.

Part of the reasoning for the disappearance of Rock music is to end racism (so they claim), but this isn't the real reason. If you read a little history you will see a particular trend of a certain group who wants to "bring people together," but their reasoning behind it is to distract the public from what is really going on so that they can continue to control the money without the general public waking up to their devious ways.

In their minds, if the general public is alike, they are equally stupid. There are far better terms for this insanity, but for all intents and purposes, I'll just call it the "Dumbing Down of America." And can anyone think of a better medium than rap music to dumb down the masses? Perhaps Rock isn't the most intelligent form of music on the planet, but at least with rap music, one has even more of a brilliant method of destroying our once great culture and national identity...the destruction of the English Language. Pretty brilliant on the parts of this "group" isn't it?


While assisting a remote Disc Jockey last summer, I was disturbed to see 7 and 8 years old white suburban kids asking for Kayne West tunes...if you think THIS is disturbing, wait another generation or two and report back.

 

[SCRHack]

Re: Come on guys...there is only one reason

While assisting a remote Disc Jockey last summer, I was
> disturbed to see 7 and 8 years old white suburban kids
> asking for Kayne West tunes...if you think THIS is
> disturbing, wait another generation or two and report back.
>
Yeah... that sure is disturbing. How dare a white kid listen to a black artist. Next thing you know they'll be drinking from the same water fountain. Now let's all put on our David Allen Coe...

 

[musicrrrr]

Re: Come on guys...there is only one reason

> Yeah... that sure is disturbing. How dare a white kid listen
> to a black artist. Next thing you know they'll be drinking
> from the same water fountain.
>
Unless you have something substantial to say Mr. SCRhack, put a sock in it. The thought of our precious youth embracing thug music that celebrates drugs, prostitution, murder, and violence is actually disturbing to many people.

So don't start with your false accusations of racism just as before. You and Mr. Homerjay have made your false accusations of racism on this board previously and have had them exposed for the idiocy that they are. The two of you have no problems making yourselves horses asses, and you are displaying your talent for it now.

In the meantime, I'm working on a Limerick with your name.

 

[John1]

Re: Generational Music

I think you need to give today's youth more credit in knowing the difference between a song lyric and a lifestyle. Our parent's generation disliked the themes and lyrics and lifestyle of rock music as much as rap is disliked now. Some of our generation did take it seriously and burned out on drugs or dropped out of 'normal' society, but most of us grew up OK, and I suspect the future generations will too. Why do suburban kids embrace this - I'd suspect many just to shock their parents, as we did with rock music. If your parents grew up on rock, you'd need to find something different to shock them - that seems to happen with every generation.

I admit as a youth that I also "embraced thug music that celebrated drugs, prostitution, murder and violence", and my parents did think that my listening too much to WRCP was disturbing, but I turned out OK, too. (A few examples: "Six Days on The Road" Dave Dudley, "Cocaine Blues" Johnny Cash; "I'm The Son of Hickory Holler's Tramp" Johnny Russell, "Bed of Roses" Statler Brothers; "Folsom Prison Blues" Johnny Cash, "Life to Go" Stonewall Jackson; "Boy Named Sue" Johnny Cash, "Bonnie & Clyde" Merle Haggard and this doesn't begin to mention all the drinking & cheating songs, which I think worried my parents more. Today these are all considered "country classics" Yes, I still listen to them 30+ years later every day on Sirius 62 and 117 WSM and I still don't drink, cheat, or murder.)




>>The thought of our precious youth embracing thug music that celebrates drugs, prostitution, > murder, and violence is actually disturbing to many people.>>
>

 

[Wil]

Re: Generational Music

> I think you need to give today's youth more credit in
> knowing the difference between a song lyric and a lifestyle.
> Our parent's generation disliked the themes and lyrics and
> lifestyle of rock music as much as rap is disliked now.
> Some of our generation did take it seriously and burned out
> on drugs or dropped out of 'normal' society, but most of us
> grew up OK, and I suspect the future generations will too.
> Why do suburban kids embrace this - I'd suspect many just to
> shock their parents, as we did with rock music. If your
> parents grew up on rock, you'd need to find something
> different to shock them - that seems to happen with every
> generation.
>
> I admit as a youth that I also "embraced thug music that
> celebrated drugs, prostitution, murder and violence", and my
> parents did think that my listening too much to WRCP was
> disturbing, but I turned out OK, too. (A few examples: "Six
> Days on The Road" Dave Dudley, "Cocaine Blues" Johnny Cash;
> "I'm The Son of Hickory Holler's Tramp" Johnny Russell, "Bed
> of Roses" Statler Brothers; "Folsom Prison Blues" Johnny
> Cash, "Life to Go" Stonewall Jackson; "Boy Named Sue" Johnny
> Cash, "Bonnie & Clyde" Merle Haggard and this doesn't begin
> to mention all the drinking & cheating songs, which I think
> worried my parents more. Today these are all considered
> "country classics" Yes, I still listen to them 30+ years
> later every day on Sirius 62 and 117 WSM and I still don't
> drink, cheat, or murder.)
>

As a teen I loved bands like Ozzy, Motley Crue, Skid Row, Kiss, AC/DC, Priest, and some of the classic stuff like Floyd, ZEP, Who, Stones, etc... I understood the lyrics, I read the newspaper accounts of who drove who off the road because they were drunk/high/whatever. Who committed suicide based on an Ozzy song. I never did any of these things, nor did I think about doing any of these things because some dude wrote a song about it. I would really like to HOPE that today's youth aren't all morons who imitate songs on the radio. You will always have a few knuckleheads who imitate things they hear in songs (it was the same in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's also), but the majority of todays kids listening to Kanye West and robbing a bank, that's a little far fetched.

 

[pianorox]

Re: Generational Music

I have to disagree a little bit. I think that the inspirational power of music shouldn't be so easily dismissed. People listen to music which celebrates and discusses immoral and violent behavior. They might not actually go out and do immoral and violent things, and here's hoping that they're not, but I think there is a very gradual wearing down of morals and standards due to all those immoral and violent messages in the music. You can stretch that to TV, to any kind of media, really.

When people listen to music, they're looking to hear from an artist that sympathizes and empathizes with them. People let these artists into their heads and, even if they don't agree with everything the artist says, they find something that they agree on. They let the artist in, they let the music in, even a little bit.

So, let's say some guy is listening to Eminem because he's ticked off at his wife/girlfriend/whatever. He probably won't throw her in a trunk and leave her to die, but he certainly identifies with Eminem's rage. He's let the music, the lyrics, in. Now he feels even more justified in his rage. The music amps that up. He's found someone who's empathized, who's had similar feelings.

That said, I'll direct this next part to musicrrr.

Why is everyone always picking on rap music? There are plenty of intelligent rap artists out there who have more things to say than just celebrations of thug culture (sorry, musicrrr, but Kanye West is one of those intelligent rap artists). And rock and roll, as others have mentioned in this thread, is loaded with negative messages. Sublime is quite violent, Puddle of Mudd and Nickelback tend towards misogyny, etc, etc...

Maybe the abandonment of rock by the radio powers-that-be has nothing to do with pushing some P.C. fantasyland on the populace. Maybe rock deserves to wane. It's gotten pretty bland since the late 90's (Creed, anyone?). It needs to go back on the fringes where it started and regroup.






> > I think you need to give today's youth more credit in
> > knowing the difference between a song lyric and a
> lifestyle.
> > Our parent's generation disliked the themes and lyrics and
>
> > lifestyle of rock music as much as rap is disliked now.
> > Some of our generation did take it seriously and burned
> out
> > on drugs or dropped out of 'normal' society, but most of
> us
> > grew up OK, and I suspect the future generations will too.
>
> > Why do suburban kids embrace this - I'd suspect many just
> to
> > shock their parents, as we did with rock music. If your
> > parents grew up on rock, you'd need to find something
> > different to shock them - that seems to happen with every
> > generation.
> >
> > I admit as a youth that I also "embraced thug music that
> > celebrated drugs, prostitution, murder and violence", and
> my
> > parents did think that my listening too much to WRCP was
> > disturbing, but I turned out OK, too. (A few examples:
> "Six
> > Days on The Road" Dave Dudley, "Cocaine Blues" Johnny
> Cash;
> > "I'm The Son of Hickory Holler's Tramp" Johnny Russell,
> "Bed
> > of Roses" Statler Brothers; "Folsom Prison Blues" Johnny
> > Cash, "Life to Go" Stonewall Jackson; "Boy Named Sue"
> Johnny
> > Cash, "Bonnie & Clyde" Merle Haggard and this doesn't
> begin
> > to mention all the drinking & cheating songs, which I
> think
> > worried my parents more. Today these are all considered
> > "country classics" Yes, I still listen to them 30+ years
> > later every day on Sirius 62 and 117 WSM and I still don't
>
> > drink, cheat, or murder.)
> >
>
> As a teen I loved bands like Ozzy, Motley Crue, Skid Row,
> Kiss, AC/DC, Priest, and some of the classic stuff like
> Floyd, ZEP, Who, Stones, etc... I understood the lyrics, I
> read the newspaper accounts of who drove who off the road
> because they were drunk/high/whatever. Who committed
> suicide based on an Ozzy song. I never did any of these
> things, nor did I think about doing any of these things
> because some dude wrote a song about it. I would really
> like to HOPE that today's youth aren't all morons who
> imitate songs on the radio. You will always have a few
> knuckleheads who imitate things they hear in songs (it was
> the same in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's also), but the
> majority of todays kids listening to Kanye West and robbing
> a bank, that's a little far fetched.
>

 

[musicrrrr]

Re: Generational Music

(sorry, musicrrr, but Kanye West is one of those intelligent rap artists).

"George Bush doesn't care about black people."

That's funny. I have now heard about the Kayne intellectual bell curve from two folks now...yourself and Mr. SCRhack.

I have heard some of Kaynes rants. When the guy learns how to construct an English sentence properly and stops making idiotic blanket statements, talk to me about his intelligence. His dialect alone sounds as if he fell into a North Philly sewer and was swept away into the Delaware River and landed somewhere onto a Bucks County shore for the sole purpose of bringing his filthy music to our otherwise decent suburban communities.

I dare you to find just ONE intelligent rap artist, and I'll do some research to contradict your findings. Find just ONE who hasn't replaced English with Ebonics. That alone is idiotic.

What is so difficult about understanding this?

 

[vumeter]

Re: Generational Music

Folks,
This was a post about the viability of active rock and it's difficulty in getting 25-54 dollars. While we should all hate racism, this is about rock, 18-34 and ad dollars.
>

 

[pianorox]

Re: Generational Music

Well, he's a good producer and his lyrics are witty. All of his tunes that I've heard, which is admittedly not many, I happen to like. And as for the Bush comment, I hear so many people every day saying things about George Bush. He was genuinely frustrated, trying to make a big splash, and on top of all that, Bush bashing is part of the culture nowadays.

And as for the intelligent rap artist thing...I personally don't think that the usage of ebonics necessarily means that a person is stupid.

Rap, even bad rap, is wordplay. You have to have at least half of a head on your shoulders to do it.

 

[apco25]

Re: Come on guys...there is only one reason

> Like you, I have to believe that if there was a market for a
>
> > full time Active Rock station in market #6, then we would
> > have one!
>
> Nope. The reason rock is disappearing is because it's not
> diverse enough. It separates the races instead of bringing
> them together. Young white youth will embrace Rap/ Hip Hop
> before before the young black audience will embrace Rock.
>
> The suits who control radio and records are on a diversity
> celebrating, everyone's exactly alike and equal "kick" and
> the cultures need to come together and embrace the same
> thoughts, ideals, beliefs, and opinions.
>
> Of course there is a market for Rock in Philadelphia. Those
> who control the radio and records DON'T WANT YOU TO LISTEN
> TO IT ANYMORE. In their minds, Rock music is a form of
> caucasian culture, and they want our youth to believe that
> it is the most evil and despicable culture on the face of
> the planet.
>
> Part of the reasoning for the disappearance of Rock music is
> to end racism (so they claim), but this isn't the real
> reason. If you read a little history you will see a
> particular trend of a certain group who wants to "bring
> people together," but their reasoning behind it is to
> distract the public from what is really going on so that
> they can continue to control the money without the general
> public waking up to their devious ways.
>
> In their minds, if the general public is alike, they are
> equally stupid. There are far better terms for this
> insanity, but for all intents and purposes, I'll just call
> it the "Dumbing Down of America." And can anyone think of a
> better medium than rap music to dumb down the masses?
> Perhaps Rock isn't the most intelligent form of music on the
> planet, but at least with rap music, one has even more of a
> brilliant method of destroying our once great culture and
> national identity...the destruction of the English Language.
> Pretty brilliant on the parts of this "group" isn't it?
>
>
> While assisting a remote Disc Jockey last summer, I was
> disturbed to see 7 and 8 years old white suburban kids
> asking for Kayne West tunes...if you think THIS is
> disturbing, wait another generation or two and report back.
>
I can relate to what your saying, but alot of pure soul and R&B acts also were forced off the charts and airplay. Stevie Wonder recently released a new album as well as the Rolling Stones....did you hear anyone of their single releases featured or added on the mainstream airplay charts? Of course not.
You don't make a bad point though.

 

[apco25]

Re: Come on guys...there is only one reason

> While assisting a remote Disc Jockey last summer, I was
> > disturbed to see 7 and 8 years old white suburban kids
> > asking for Kayne West tunes...if you think THIS is
> > disturbing, wait another generation or two and report
> back.
> >
> Yeah... that sure is disturbing. How dare a white kid listen
> to a black artist. Next thing you know they'll be drinking
> from the same water fountain. Now let's all put on our David
> Allen Coe...
>


Mr. schRYUK, you on the otherside continue to be a loss cause. Loss of your culture, loss of your history, loss of your sovereignty, = loss of your mind.
You are the dumming down roly poly Michael Moore of today's Starbuck's society.

What the previous postee was stating was Kanye West music (if you call it that)continues effecting the surburban teenage kid into the trickle down society of we know today. Yes you had to throw in David Allen Coe to show that it had to be a (BLEEP) statement. Figures (something you don't have.... sooo let's bring it all down man).

If it was the Temptations, Kool & The Gang, it would be different, because there real musicians and singers. And it just goes to show that the music industry replaces the same color sound with a sound of a moron, (it doesn't matter what color) just to show that we should not use our minds at all. We should just asmilate with everything that's the lower common denominator. Now that's equality?