WOW, I guess there IS potential for this format...

[AC Tones]

...with the 25-54 demo, at least according to Mr. Kepler. This is an EXTRAORDINARY revelation. Playing NEW music? Yet another brilliant concept. Adding new artists like Drew Davidsen, Oli Silk, and Darren Rahn to the playlist? Hmmm, at my station we term these artists as emerging, young, talented, and UNDERPLAYED, certainly not NEW. Oli Silk did a nice little project a couple years ago called "Easy Does It"---got plenty spins on Jones Radio Networks, not BA. Darren Rahn came out with a very nice project of his own called "Once In A Lifetime" around the same time---heard it on Jones Radio Networks, not BA. And last but certainly not least, Drew Davidsen cut a nice CD a couple of years ago entitled "This Journey...", that neither Jones nor BA played. Sorry, gang. I have to take sole credit for spinning that one ;-)

http://www.allthatjazzinc.com/index_files/page0051.html

Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.

Chris

 

[recto101]

...with the 25-54 demo, at least according to Mr. Kepler. This is an EXTRAORDINARY revelation. Playing NEW music? Yet another brilliant concept. Adding new artists like Drew Davidsen, Oli Silk, and Darren Rahn to the playlist? Hmmm, at my station we term these artists as emerging, young, talented, and UNDERPLAYED, certainly not NEW. Oli Silk did a nice little project a couple years ago called "Easy Does It"---got plenty spins on Jones Radio Networks, not BA. Darren Rahn came out with a very nice project of his own called "Once In A Lifetime" around the same time---heard it on Jones Radio Networks, not BA. And last but certainly not least, Drew Davidsen cut a nice CD a couple of years ago entitled "This Journey...", that neither Jones nor BA played. Sorry, gang. I have to take sole credit for spinning that one ;-)

http://www.allthatjazzinc.com/index_files/page0051.html

Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.

Chris

The web stations on Loud City and Live365 will play these people.

 

[Nock]

Isn't someone missing from this discussion? Or is he researching his bad information he has been given?

Nock

 

[AnotherCat]

The thing I noticed when I read the part of the memo that got printed in Carol Archer's column was that although he is pounding how cool it is that the Network is going to play new songs two issues were ignored. Are they the right songs? And will a younger listener turn in just for that scattering of new songs if they have to sit though songs that are older than they are or covers of songs that are older than they are. As long as the "singles" continue to mostly be the slowest, most unobtrusive track on the CD or the cover, or formula must that is new but sounds like a clone of everything else out there is it really going to make that much difference.

 

[cklw800]

David Eduardo just called. He'll be in the room shortly...be patient please, 'Cat!

 

[AC Tones]

The thing I noticed when I read the part of the memo that got printed in Carol Archer's column was that although he is pounding how cool it is that the Network is going to play new songs two issues were ignored. Are they the right songs? And will a younger listener turn in just for that scattering of new songs if they have to sit though songs that are older than they are or covers of songs that are older than they are. As long as the "singles" continue to mostly be the slowest, most unobtrusive track on the CD or the cover, or formula must that is new but sounds like a clone of everything else out there is it really going to make that much difference.

I agree. I think it is just a big publicity stunt with very little substance. Until the entire program is evaluated, overhauled, and "safe" overplayed cuts are trimmed substantially, I do not foresee a significant change in their overall programming strategy. These are VERY talented artists who deserve airplay, but there are plenty others who weren't mentioned that BA has yet to spin. And to your point, there has been a propensity to go for the safest cuts on new CDs and ignore deeper cuts. I can easily see them pounding listeners over the head with these songs as well. I love Drew's music and I am so happy to see him get the national recognition he has deserved. But in his most recent newsletter, Drew noted his vibrant single "Astro" got 31 spins on "The Network" during the week he was out in California for Catalina, or about 4.5 spins a day on average. IMO, that's overkill, even for great cuts which "Astro" is.

 

[cklw800]

Wait, Eduardo is in the FICKLE strand and yeah boy, he's into his element there! Have a look-see! Yours in fun, CK.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Wait, Eduardo is in the FICKLE strand and yeah boy, he's into his element there! Have a look-see! Yours in fun, CK.

Yes, as always. He's a really nice guy I don't know why he enjoys the fight so much. David probably represents the thinking of radio management.

As a former fan of radio long before I worked in the biz, if half of the radio stations in my town went off the air I might notice in a week or two! I have moved on, terrestrial radio no longer fits my needs. It's their loss, there are plenty of other places to find "The entertainment I want and the information I need'.

 

[davideduardo]

Wait, Eduardo is in the FICKLE strand and yeah boy, he's into his element there! Have a look-see! Yours in fun, CK.

Yes, as always. He's a really nice guy I don't know why he enjoys the fight so much.

... because only on this particular thread can I be the subject or content of half the posts without even participating until now.

The real fact is that these threads keep one focused on programming for the majority of listeners... not the noisy, small group that is statistically meaningless yet which makes all the noise.

 

[AC Tones]

Wait, Eduardo is in the FICKLE strand and yeah boy, he's into his element there! Have a look-see! Yours in fun, CK.

Yes, as always. He's a really nice guy I don't know why he enjoys the fight so much.

... because only on this particular thread can I be the subject or content of half the posts without even participating until now.

The real fact is that these threads keep one focused on programming for the majority of listeners... not the noisy, small group that is statistically meaningless yet which makes all the noise.

Who makes all the noise? Someone with 16000+ posts or someone with 150. We'll let the people decide.

 

[majaman78]

As a former fan of radio long before I worked in the biz, if half of the radio stations in my town went off the air I might notice in a week or two! I have moved on, terrestrial radio no longer fits my needs. It's their loss, there are plenty of other places to find "The entertainment I want and the information I need'.

Mike...after reading your post I actually stopped what I was doing and thought of the last time I really listened to terrestrial...it had to be last September when Jones left the airwaves. But I cannot even make that claim since I listened to their on-line stream. So I guess the real answer was WJSJ Jacksonville FL BEFORE they switched to BA from Jones. BA Smooth Jazz programming was bad enough where I didn't bother turning it on at home or in the car anymore. This had to be 2-3 years ago!

I never listen to terrestrial on my trips back and forth from Connecticut to Florida, but I guess the last time I "tuned" in while driving in my car was to WEIB Northampton MA...one of the only half way decent smooth jazz stations currently left.

And that's a privately owned station....I don't have the faintest idea on how it creates any revenue, yet they stream on-line as well.

 

[davideduardo]

And that's a privately owned station....I don't have the faintest idea on how it creates any revenue, yet they stream on-line as well.

Essentially all commercial stations are privately owned.

WEIB is in a rated market, but with very low ratings... below a 1.0 share. And its revenue is about 13th in its market, and it is flat for the last 6 years.

To answer your question, stations in markets that size, no matter who owns them... a group or a single station owner... most of the revenue comes from local direct accounts. These are retailers, service providers, etc. in the immediate local markt.

The top stations (the #1 biller does nearly 10 times the revenue of WEIB) do get agency business, but the smaller accounts don't go by ratings but by gut feel, including just buying the station they listen to at the store. If the station has low, low rates and gets results, this kind of station can make a few dollars, but not much.

The real issue is that the listening base is tiny... less than 1%... and while costs may have gone up 10% to 15% in the last 6 years, the station revenue is flat.

If the economy improves, this sort of station will survive. If it does no, they will sell or go bankrupt and be sold by the receiver.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Mike...after reading your post I actually stopped what I was doing and thought of the last time I really listened to terrestrial...it had to be last September when Jones left the airwaves. But I cannot even make that claim since I listened to their on-line stream. So I guess the real answer was WJSJ Jacksonville FL BEFORE they switched to BA from Jones. BA Smooth Jazz programming was bad enough where I didn't bother turning it on at home or in the car anymore. This had to be 2-3 years ago!

I even have a HD radio tuner because I was curious as to what stations would offer. Some of it is not bad but I rarely listen. CBS runs a Smooth Jazz station on WBAV-HD2. At one point they wrecked the format for me, making it more Urban than Smooth Jazz the last time I turned it on they were back to Smooth Jazz. One of the Clear Channel stations was running a good comedy channel but that has been replaced by a format that doesn't really differ much from the format on their main channel. So far I don't see much reason to get a second HD radio.

With a playlist of 5269 songs and podcasts I really have all I need. If I want to hear something new I have XM and listen to their Smooth Jazz channel "Watercolors". While I listen to other channels on XM if they did away with "Watercolors" I'd be gone.

 

[mock3]

While I listen to other channels on XM if they did away with "Watercolors" I'd be gone.

Same here. I'm not sure why we don't have much talk about Watercolors on this board. I listen to the channel in my car and in my office, many days for 8-9 hours total. Even the new music is not overplayed. Sometimes I hear a track that I haven't heard them play in months--that's always a nice surprise. And they do a really good job of maintaining a large playlist and playing tracks from the 80s and 90s. If you like Acoustic Alchemy and Hiroshima type stuff, they play more of that than any other smooth jazz station. The don't play much R&B stuff--so that is good! They do play Michael Franks, Diana Krall, Donald Fagen, and Sade type stuff--which I like. I'm not sure why I never hear them play EBTG.

I will also switch to XM Chill sometimes. It's a small playlist, but alright to listen to about one day a week. Watercolors actually mixes in some of the chill music.

If you can sit through a bunch of bad songs on The Loft, you'll sometimes hear a good NAC/soft AAA vocal.

 

[majaman78]

While I listen to other channels on XM if they did away with "Watercolors" I'd be gone.

Same here. I'm not sure why we don't have much talk about Watercolors on this board. I listen to the channel in my car and in my office, many days for 8-9 hours total. Even the new music is not overplayed. Sometimes I hear a track that I haven't heard them play in months--that's always a nice surprise. And they do a really good job of maintaining a large playlist and playing tracks from the 80s and 90s. If you like Acoustic Alchemy and Hiroshima type stuff, they play more of that than any other smooth jazz station. The don't play much R&B stuff--so that is good! They do play Michael Franks, Diana Krall, Donald Fagen, and Sade type stuff--which I like. I'm not sure why I never hear them play EBTG.

I will also switch to XM Chill sometimes. It's a small playlist, but alright to listen to about one day a week. Watercolors actually mixes in some of the chill music.

If you can sit through a bunch of bad songs on The Loft, you'll sometimes hear a good NAC/soft AAA vocal.

XM Watercolors did not start out like it sounds now.

I might have been one of the first XM subs in Connecticut way back in late 2001. I plowed about $500 for a Sony Plug n' Play (the only XM receiver available at that time). The guys at Best Buy where I purchased it knew nothing about set-up since they had just gotten the product in that weekend around Thanksgiving. So I brought it home and set it up to my stereo. I also bought the car adapter but in the end rarely used it in there as the reception was spotty at best.

XM was great about the first month but I started hearing an all too familiar theme like terrestrial...the same 200 or so song playlist. I butted heads with the PD (forgot his name) along with Lily and Trinity who were the hosts on why they wouldn't expand their playlist to include classic NAC/Smooth Jazz. They claimed they didn't have a lot of older tunes in their library and "didn't want to go in that direction". I even offered them to make copies of my own library, which they politely refused due to legal issues (true story) ;D

So after 3 years I dropped them (since at the time it was the only way I could still hear SJ) since I also could finally get some streaming stations on the web who carried Jones, whose programing I thought was far superior to XM. I had been familiar with Jones when they broadcast out of Plymouth MA and Mystic CT. The reason I believed they were better was because is that I liked the occasional New Age/R n'B/NAC tune which Jones sprinkled into their playlists. XM stayed true and only offered Smooth Jazz. Even if I had to suffer thru the occasional Stevie Wonder or overplayed track, Jones would always come through with an outstanding tune. XM wouldn't even play great new tracks by Mark Hollingsworth or James Gabriano. Ridiculous. Lily claimed in an email to me "they didn't fit" !! ??? Tip...don't ever mention my name to Watercolors when corresponding with them (since I complained via email to them almost daily ) . But I liked both Lily and Trinity and they were always polite in their correspondence over those few years with me.

Fast forward to this summer. While visiting my buddy and slamming down a few cold ones sitting on his deck on a beautiful sunny Saturday, he had XM on in the background...and lo' and behold Watercolors (who I had not listened to for over 5 years) was playing artists like Dan Siegel and J Michael Verta!!! WTF???

I had him listen the .wav on my iPhone...he dropped XM the following Monday.

p.s. - Sony Plug n' Play for sale. Cheap. Make an offer!

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I will admit Watercolors does play it safe but they have a large playlist.

I'd like to see some Swing out Sister, Heavyshift, and maybe something from the "Melt" CD that Godiva Chocolate came put with a few years ago.

As another poster said "Chill" is good too. For those times when you want something a little different.

Some vocals by Stevie Wonder, Basia, and Randy Crawford would be nice.

 

[majaman78]

I will admit Watercolors does play it safe but they have a large playlist.

I'd like to see some Swing out Sister, Heavyshift, and maybe something from the "Melt" CD that Godiva Chocolate came put with a few years ago.

As another poster said "Chill" is good too. For those times when you want something a little different.

Some vocals by Stevie Wonder, Basia, and Randy Crawford would be nice.

I agree 100%.

But XM probably won't do this. Their channels are too structured. You want chill, listen to the chill channel, r n'b listen to "The Groove" etc, etc.
It's just the way they have to present their lineups, although they could easily add channel's which "blend" different formats.

But that just might make everything more confusing for the listener.

 

[AC Tones]

Majaman hit the nail on the head, Mike. I agree with both of you. But as a programmer (and I am sure you know this being in the business), it is a tremendous challenge to strike the right balance with your listeners, and you can't please everyone. I have guys pushing me to add more vocals, some wanting no vocals at all, some guys want more funk and fusion, and while others want more New Age and Ambient cuts. At the end of the day, I try to play good music and integrate a programming logic that represents the overall theme of the station. I value the importance of "change of pace" cuts, and vocals and upbeat Chill seem to work nicely for me. I'd say on average out of every 8 cuts I play, 2 are new contemporary jazz titles, 1 is Chill, 1 NAC vocal, and the remaining 4 are any combination of NAC and Smooth Jazz instrumental cuts. I really make a concerted effort to go deep on what were otherwise overplayed CDs, and try to reintroduce my listeners to guys like the aforementioned Sammy Peralta, Duncan Millar, Thom Rotella, and Max Groove, just to name a few. That said, "It ain't easy being me." 8)

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I'm certainly not complaining about "Watercolors" they do a nice job.

What I will complain about is the lack of a good MOR format, Standards or whatever you want to call it. "Siriusly Sinatra" doesn't cut it. Naturally they aren't interested in music for the older folks.

 

[AC Tones]

I'm certainly not complaining about "Watercolors" they do a nice job.

What I will complain about is the lack of a good MOR format, Standards or whatever you want to call it. "Siriusly Sinatra" doesn't cut it. Naturally they aren't interested in music for the older folks.

There are a handful of AM stations out there that do a great job with this format. But I agree, satellite radio falls way short where Standards are concerned.