WPFB-AM off air...AGAIN.

[Lamont Lester]

No problem. I got nothing else to do. Looks like there are 105.9s southwest of Lexington and south of Louisville. 105.7 northeast of Louisville and 106.3 in Lexington. The new 106.3 here is a translator and doesn't get consideration, does it? Nothing in Indiana to cause a problem. There might be a 105.5 in KY I missed.

Closest co-channel is Baldwin's class A in Burgin. Star Tower to Burgin is 96 miles. FCC separation A to B1 is 88 miles. Looks like it would clear on co-channel.

What it won't clear is first adj to 106.1 WWWY / North Vernon IN. Looks to me as if they're seriously short spaced as they currently stand.

 

[jry]

No problem. I got nothing else to do. Looks like there are 105.9s southwest of Lexington and south of Louisville. 105.7 northeast of Louisville and 106.3 in Lexington. The new 106.3 here is a translator and doesn't get consideration, does it? Nothing in Indiana to cause a problem. There might be a 105.5 in KY I missed.

Closest co-channel is Baldwin's class A in Burgin. Star Tower to Burgin is 96 miles. FCC separation A to B1 is 88 miles. Looks like it would clear on co-channel.

What it won't clear is first adj to 106.1 WWWY / North Vernon IN. Looks to me as if they're seriously short spaced as they currently stand.

Burgin may be dark. The site landlord lost was foreclosed on and they didn't want an FM broadcast facility on the site.
It left Verne with no where to go. It sucks as they have north of 1 million dollars into that deal. In todays climate, its not worth 500K.

 

[jry]

Still a lot of money for a AM Station that doesn't cover the market. As stated previously, 910 whould have to remain in Middeltown Ohio and cannot be moved to Cincinnati.

Oh, i think i can move it to 1050's site. I paid Munn Reese to study that as i was interested in making another buy. I'll have to pull the study as the night coverage just stinks.

 

[del_griffith]

Not an owner by any stretch, but small signal or signal impared AM's seem to do better outside of metro areas. And a little distance doesn't hurt either. Wouldn't it be better to leave it be a small town operation?

 

[MTHBSTR]

Lamont I completely missed that 106.1. Unless they drop power or find another site, that looks like it couldn't happen.

 

[jry]

Not an owner by any stretch, but small signal or signal impared AM's seem to do better outside of metro areas. And a little distance doesn't hurt either. Wouldn't it be better to leave it be a small town operation?

Good question. IF the small town is so far out it cannot be reached by the signals of stations in larger markets, it will do well. I know that the above comment made for a horrible sentence...

It always been my theory that people will gravitate to the station that broadcasts from the larger town/city, if they can receive it.

If your living in Middletown and have a choice, i think most will gravitate to the Cincinnati stations. This has be exacerbated by the amount of syndicated content that most stations air AND that most people commute to work in the larger city/town. They want to know what is going on, where they work.
Its why Arbitron took Lapeer County away from Flint and gave it to Detroit. The back story is that Lapeer is 18 minutes from the city of Flint and 55 minutes from Detroit. Nonetheless, those folks are more linked to Detroit.
That does change if the little, local station is relevant to those that live in the community. I hate to give another Detroit analogy ...
WHMI is closer to Lansing than Detroit. However, the county it is in is in the Detroit DMA. This is a Class A FM that in no way covers the Detroit market. You can receive all of the Detroit and Lansing signals in the county. Bottom line? They are local, REALLY LOCAL. Formatted Classic Rock and the thing KILLS in the county ARB and shows in the Detroit book. It shows better than a few of the Detroit stations which means that it really has to pull big numbers in its county. WHMI does get a boost from being an FM. But, its a puny FM signal.

 

[Bizman]

jry I agree with everything you just said about small market/large market. I'm a perfect example of your description. So what do you do with an AM WPFB? I don't know if there's enough business in the Middletown area to support it.

Long ago it was very local. They didn't get rich but made a few bucks for Mr. PFB. The FM back then didn't make what the AM made. The sub carrier on the FM had background music and that was quite profitable.

How could the AM make money again?

 

[wllmlos]

The Mullens family in Xenia have the right idea for 'small town stations',
purchasing and simulcasting three tiny AMs.

 

[del_griffith]

Not an owner by any stretch, but small signal or signal impared AM's seem to do better outside of metro areas. And a little distance doesn't hurt either. Wouldn't it be better to leave it be a small town operation?

Good question. IF the small town is so far out it cannot be reached by the signals of stations in larger markets, it will do well. I know that the above comment made for a horrible sentence...

It always been my theory that people will gravitate to the station that broadcasts from the larger town/city, if they can receive it.

If your living in Middletown and have a choice, i think most will gravitate to the Cincinnati stations. This has be exacerbated by the amount of syndicated content that most stations air AND that most people commute to work in the larger city/town. They want to know what is going on, where they work.
Its why Arbitron took Lapeer County away from Flint and gave it to Detroit. The back story is that Lapeer is 18 minutes from the city of Flint and 55 minutes from Detroit. Nonetheless, those folks are more linked to Detroit.
That does change if the little, local station is relevant to those that live in the community. I hate to give another Detroit analogy ...
WHMI is closer to Lansing than Detroit. However, the county it is in is in the Detroit DMA. This is a Class A FM that in no way covers the Detroit market. You can receive all of the Detroit and Lansing signals in the county. Bottom line? They are local, REALLY LOCAL. Formatted Classic Rock and the thing KILLS in the county ARB and shows in the Detroit book. It shows better than a few of the Detroit stations which means that it really has to pull big numbers in its county. WHMI does get a boost from being an FM. But, its a puny FM signal.

I hear what you're saying.

Someone mentioned the Mullins family and their collection of AM stations. I have also heard he does pretty well with them, although in Xenia he does now have an FM translator. But his core business is three daytimers in Xenia, Eaton and Wilmington. All within earshot of Dayton/Cincinnati. But far enough out that they are considered part of the local landscape. If it was three daytimers IN Cincy or Dayton, I doubt he not enjoy the success he has.

And as a point of interest, Joe's dad (Paul "Moon" Mullins) was at one time a pretty big name on WPFB back when AM was king.

 

[jry]

jry I agree with everything you just said about small market/large market. I'm a perfect example of your description. So what do you do with an AM WPFB? I don't know if there's enough business in the Middletown area to support it.

Long ago it was very local. They didn't get rich but made a few bucks for Mr. PFB. The FM back then didn't make what the AM made. The sub carrier on the FM had background music and that was quite profitable.

How could the AM make money again?

They could try being very local.
One of my stations was licensed to a small town, 20 miles south of the big city. Back in the day, you could go up and down the main business district and book all kinds of orders. Big time. That was then. They took a shot at being very local, in the 90's and it didn't work. Folke were most interested in that City. We moved the tower site to about 3 miles from the City and changed the COL. Normally, you just cannot do this. We caught a break and a blessing.

 

[del_griffith]

The other thing about signal impaired AM stations in a large market is there comes a point where niche programming $$ run out. For example, it's not unusual to find on teach and preach stations Dobson, Focus on the Family and many other brokered shows on multiple stations. But at some point, those entities have to say we've saturated the market, why add another signal to the mix or they prioritize based on cost and time avail with one or more people being left out. And if you're up against a Salem or other biggie in the biz, you may get in the position of being left out of the buy mix.

Yes, a lot of main streets have suffered. But Mullins and another I just thought of Bohach in Lancaster seem to do pretty well with an impaired AM(s) as their mainstay. Even before he got his translators, Bohach was claiming success.

 

[markbohach]

Bohach in Lancaster seem to do pretty well with an impaired AM(s) as their mainstay. Even before he got his translators, Bohach was claiming success.

I'll show you the books if you like.

As Lancaster is in the Columbus Metro and ALL Columbus stations- even the rimshot Class A's can be head here
(at least in the car) I will not claim it was or is easy.

In 2005, it was a big leap of faith to purchase and then spend another $100K on new equipment to rehabilitate a
standalone AM station. But that's what separates entrepreneurs from accountants.
(nothing against accountants- I married one)
And I swear I heard crickets chirping when we launched the Talk Radio format that year.
And 2005 and early 2006 were challenging to say the least. But by Mid 2006 we were solidly profitable.

The first translator did not come into the fold until 2010. (the second one in Logan in 2011). So what did we do
between 2005 and 2010 to grow and remain profitable during "the worst recession since the great depression"?

We joined the Rotary Club. We joined referral groups in town. We served on community boards of trustees.
We broadcast high school sports...at a blistering 16 Watts of night power. We did local news, broadcast local events
and shook a lot of hands. I felt like I was running for Mayor at times.

And please don't think that having FM translators is the cure-all for a standalone AM's woes. Being an engineer, I knew
how to max out their coverage over our population centers. They cover well for 250 Watts each. However, now I answer
questions about "dead spots" and why the FM doesn't reach into Columbus.

Yes- the FM translators have helped...in part because we have invested to make them sound as good technically as any
Columbus signal. And partly because I have great people who care about the community.

 

[del_griffith]

I guess the question is, do you feel you could have done as well had your station been a Columbus station or was success more probable by being out a bit?

 

[Limp73]

...paging Rick Muzzy (if you're on these boards.)

Can he save 'PFB as well??? Has purchased an FM translator in Sidney planned to rebroadcast Piqua's WPTW.

 

[markbohach]

I guess the question is, do you feel you could have done as well had your station been a Columbus station or was success more probable by being out a bit?

The short answer is no. We actively market and promote that "We Are NOT A Columbus Station".
A standalone AM in a big market like Columbus is a guppy among whales. And unless you like eating whale droppings, I wouldn't suggest trying it. Look at the AM's in Columbus that are not WTVN. The track record has not been that great.

However, to reiterate a point- even though we don't want to be a Columbus station, we must present ourselves as well (technically and programming wise) as the big stations.

And bear in mind that the average listener on the street has no clue what "premium choice" or voice tracking are.

 

[pioneer71]

910 WPFB Radio has some tough roads to travel as a stand alone AM. However, it has been pointed out that there are stand alone AM's in Ohio making it.

It takes programming that is geared for the local community and also people who understand AM radio and can run it. With that said, there has been talk that Middletown could not support WPFB. I believe many are failing to realize the business impact of Springboro, Lebanon and Monroe.

This station make some money during the Rebel days of her sister FM and could make money again. The problem is there would be no quick return for someone outside the business looking to invest.

 

[jry]

910 WPFB Radio has some tough roads to travel as a stand alone AM. However, it has been pointed out that there are stand alone AM's in Ohio making it.

It takes programming that is geared for the local community and also people who understand AM radio and can run it. With that said, there has been talk that Middletown could not support WPFB. I believe many are failing to realize the business impact of Springboro, Lebanon and Monroe.

This station make some money during the Rebel days of her sister FM and could make money again. The problem is there would be no quick return for someone outside the business looking to invest.

If someone can pick up this property DIRT CHEAP.... Cash. No debt. Then. program it, what, Classic Country and local?

 

[Bizman]

If someone can pick up this property DIRT CHEAP.... Cash. No debt. Then. program it, what, Classic Country and local?

"Dirt cheap" like how dirt cheap? 250-400k ?

 

[del_griffith]

I guess the question is, do you feel you could have done as well had your station been a Columbus station or was success more probable by being out a bit?

The short answer is no. We actively market and promote that "We Are NOT A Columbus Station".
A standalone AM in a big market like Columbus is a guppy among whales. And unless you like eating whale droppings, I wouldn't suggest trying it. Look at the AM's in Columbus that are not WTVN. The track record has not been that great.

However, to reiterate a point- even though we don't want to be a Columbus station, we must present ourselves as well (technically and programming wise) as the big stations.

And bear in mind that the average listener on the street has no clue what "premium choice" or voice tracking are.

What I perceived. It's seemed that a stand alone with a less than optimal signal will suffer. WRFD is one of the few that has made a unique niche and done well. But to replicate twice in the market that would be very, very difficult. So sometimes it appears a little distance plus a decent sized small market with ears and advertising $$ can work better than being in the clutter of a larger market. And in no case will it be a cake walk.

 

[del_griffith]

If someone can pick up this property DIRT CHEAP.... Cash. No debt. Then. program it, what, Classic Country and local?

"Dirt cheap" like how dirt cheap? 250-400k ?

I'm thinking even much less than that.