WPGC

[iloveradio93173]

I was listening to WPGC and comparing it to WKYS (the TRUE URBAN competition) and what a difference. I guess WPGC is trying to go back and be a TRUE Rythmic station like Z-104 in Norfolk or what Wired 96.5 in Philadelphia used to be before they starting leaning Pop. I mean, Pablo in the morning is actually not a bad morning show at all, its just not what PGC is used to and not competing with Russ Parr. The Urban audience is slowly going toward WKYS. I guess they want to compete with both KYS and Hot 99.5. Not sure if that'll work in Chocolate City. Also, is PGC running any mix shows? If so, when? KYS is mixing like a normal Urban does but when they are...I turn on PGC and they are just playing music.
Don't get me wrong, I still like PGC and actually think they sound really good for a Rythmic. BUT not sure it'll work in DC with the competition they have now.

 

[donta1974]

I was listening to WPGC and comparing it to WKYS (the TRUE URBAN competition) and what a difference. I guess WPGC is trying to go back and be a TRUE Rythmic station like Z-104 in Norfolk or what Wired 96.5 in Philadelphia used to be before they starting leaning Pop. I mean, Pablo in the morning is actually not a bad morning show at all, its just not what PGC is used to and not competing with Russ Parr. The Urban audience is slowly going toward WKYS. I guess they want to compete with both KYS and Hot 99.5. Not sure if that'll work in Chocolate City. Also, is PGC running any mix shows? If so, when? KYS is mixing like a normal Urban does but when they are...I turn on PGC and they are just playing music.
Don't get me wrong, I still like PGC and actually think they sound really good for a Rythmic. BUT not sure it'll work in DC with the competition they have now.

You must have been off of this Balto/DC board for a minute this WPGC debate has been going on for the last few years on here. They went back to being a Rhythmic CHR format at the end of 2010. They do have mix shows and are trying to be different from WKYS. We can debate playlist, sound ,ratings , personalities , morning shows but in the next few weeks the real numbers will be released. Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station. They will be posted on local site dcrtv.com. There are things about this station that I have had issues with but as we all know money makes the world go round and WPGC makes cash for CBS Radio. Outside of WTOP no other radio station in DC or Baltimore makes as much money as WPGC.

 

[anatharadiorefugee]

If PGC is able to continue to be a cash cow considering its ratings performance over the past year I will be impressed. But I will also wonder how. If they do somebody has sold his sole to the devil.

 

[donta1974]

If PGC is able to continue to be a cash cow considering its ratings performance over the past year I will be impressed. But I will also wonder how. If they do somebody has sold his sole to the devil.

It has had the same or simuliar ratings issues since 2008 though and has maintained its billing numbers the whole time so whoever has been selling that sole for a minute.We will soon see.

 

[kilamanjero]

CBS needs to decide if they want WPGC to be a true CHRurban like sister station Hot 93.7, 106 KMEL, or original 92.3 the Beat KKBT or a pseudo one. At the moment, they are treading more towards the pseudo side. Waffling around isn't going help their bottom line or 6+ numbers either.

 

[davideduardo]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

 

[donta1974]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

 

[donta1974]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

 

[donta1974]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

 

[davideduardo]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

The point, besides saying that the 2012 data has been out for several weeks, is that the billing level does not support talk of significant programming changes.

 

[donta1974]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

The point, besides saying that the 2012 data has been out for several weeks, is that the billing level does not support talk of significant programming changes.

Ok cool you have access to billing numbers that the public does not have access to. DCRTV.COM(Dave Hughes) usually has the local billing numbers for the DC market posted and he has not posted the 2012 numbers yet on his site and that`s where I see them. He had the Top Ten billing stations in the country posted on his site and WTOP(DC) is the Top biller in the country with 64 million but not the Top Ten DC stations yet. People here have a problem with WPGC`s content but they will not change the format but so much because of billing it will be either (young end 18-34 Hip-Hop Urban) or this current (18-34) Rhythmic Hits Hybrid format.

 

[kilamanjero]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

The point, besides saying that the 2012 data has been out for several weeks, is that the billing level does not support talk of significant programming changes.

Ok cool you have access to billing numbers that the public does not have access to. DCRTV.COM(Dave Hughes) usually has the local billing numbers for the DC market posted and he has not posted the 2012 numbers yet on his site and that`s where I see them. He had the Top Ten billing stations in the country posted on his site and WTOP(DC) is the Top biller in the country with 64 million but not the Top Ten DC stations yet. People here have a problem with WPGC`s content but they will not change the format but so much because of billing it will be either (young end 18-34 Hip-Hop Urban) or this current (18-34) Rhythmic Hits Hybrid format.

Well, you know I will always say the former rather than latter because the former is what brought it to prominence in the market and nationwide as a contemporary radio station. Also over duplication of what can be here on any given rhythmic top 40 outlet is boring. Whereas when WPGC was doing their thing you heard go-go music songs (covers and original tracks) along with actual local artists prior to going nationwide like Raheem DeVaughn, J. Holiday, Wale, etc. in the 00s. Honestly, they could find a safe medium between those 2 like KMEL has and still bill well. Nevertheless, that is the fallacy of CBS Radio these days, they have no faith in urban format outside of the Deep South with WVEE and WPEG/WBAV. This current patronizing the hell out of the urban audience is tiring and will come back to bite them in their bottom line...

 

[donta1974]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

The point, besides saying that the 2012 data has been out for several weeks, is that the billing level does not support talk of significant programming changes.

Ok cool you have access to billing numbers that the public does not have access to. DCRTV.COM(Dave Hughes) usually has the local billing numbers for the DC market posted and he has not posted the 2012 numbers yet on his site and that`s where I see them. He had the Top Ten billing stations in the country posted on his site and WTOP(DC) is the Top biller in the country with 64 million but not the Top Ten DC stations yet. People here have a problem with WPGC`s content but they will not change the format but so much because of billing it will be either (young end 18-34 Hip-Hop Urban) or this current (18-34) Rhythmic Hits Hybrid format.

Well, you know I will always say the former rather than latter because the former is what brought it to prominence in the market and nationwide as a contemporary radio station. Also over duplication of what can be here on any given rhythmic top 40 outlet is boring. Whereas when WPGC was doing their thing you heard go-go music songs (covers and original tracks) along with actual local artists prior to going nationwide like Raheem DeVaughn, J. Holiday, Wale, etc. in the 00s. Honestly, they could find a safe medium between those 2 like KMEL has and still bill well. Nevertheless, that is the fallacy of CBS Radio these days, they have no faith in urban format outside of the Deep South with WVEE and WPEG/WBAV. This current patronizing the hell out of the urban audience is tiring and will come back to bite them in their bottom line...

I agree with you 100% outside of WVEE,WPEG, and WBAV CBS Radio has no true Urban stations in there inventory of stations out of 150 plus stations. So when you think about it CBS Radio has no real commitment to the format. After all they are the ones who destroyed WVEE `s former heritage sister station V-103 Baltimore(Disco and later Urban Hits 1977-1997 20 years) when it had slipping ratings and poor billing they flipped it with no hesitation. V103 Atlanta and V103 Baltimore were two of the first stations to transition black radio from its AM-Hits heyday in the mid 1970`s to the current FM dial today. If WPGC did not bill as well as it does there would not be any type of Urban music on it what so ever I have no doubt about that.

 

[kilamanjero]

Those are the Ad revenue numbers released this month or next lets see how much money WPGC made in 2012 and that will determine what direction CBS Radio goes with the station.

WPGC has been essentially flat in revenue from 2009 to 2012. It was up less than 2% from 2011 to 2012.

It's the second highest biller in the market, although WTOP bills over three times as much.

OK what`s your point? WPGC`s billing was flat btw 09-12 but so was everyone else`s no other DC station other than WTOP has been able to pass it in billing during that time. My point is even with PPM it out bills its ratings despite it being flat. Flat does not matter when no on else other than WTOP the best biller in the US can not pass you in market #7. Number 2 is number 2.

The point, besides saying that the 2012 data has been out for several weeks, is that the billing level does not support talk of significant programming changes.

Ok cool you have access to billing numbers that the public does not have access to. DCRTV.COM(Dave Hughes) usually has the local billing numbers for the DC market posted and he has not posted the 2012 numbers yet on his site and that`s where I see them. He had the Top Ten billing stations in the country posted on his site and WTOP(DC) is the Top biller in the country with 64 million but not the Top Ten DC stations yet. People here have a problem with WPGC`s content but they will not change the format but so much because of billing it will be either (young end 18-34 Hip-Hop Urban) or this current (18-34) Rhythmic Hits Hybrid format.

Well, you know I will always say the former rather than latter because the former is what brought it to prominence in the market and nationwide as a contemporary radio station. Also over duplication of what can be here on any given rhythmic top 40 outlet is boring. Whereas when WPGC was doing their thing you heard go-go music songs (covers and original tracks) along with actual local artists prior to going nationwide like Raheem DeVaughn, J. Holiday, Wale, etc. in the 00s. Honestly, they could find a safe medium between those 2 like KMEL has and still bill well. Nevertheless, that is the fallacy of CBS Radio these days, they have no faith in urban format outside of the Deep South with WVEE and WPEG/WBAV. This current patronizing the hell out of the urban audience is tiring and will come back to bite them in their bottom line...

I agree with you 100% outside of WVEE,WPEG, and WBAV CBS Radio has no true Urban stations in there inventory of stations out of 150 plus stations. So when you think about it CBS Radio has no real commitment to the format. After all they are the ones who destroyed WVEE `s former heritage sister station V-103 Baltimore(Disco and later Urban Hits 1977-1997 20 years) when it had slipping ratings and poor billing they flipped it with no hesitation. V103 Atlanta and V103 Baltimore were two of the first stations to transition black radio from its AM-Hits heyday in the mid 1970`s to the current FM dial today. If WPGC did not bill as well as it does there would not be any type of Urban music on it what so ever I have no doubt about that.

CBS is extremely disrespectful to the format within itself overall. There are markets where CBS has a heap-load of stations that just waste airspace with repetitive formats in markets like Houston, Dallas, Baltimore, Cleveland, even Boston and Los Angeles. These places are where they could either program a full-fledged urban contemporary (full-service like WVEE) or urban-leaning CHRurban like WZMX due to diverse demographics and/or higher than average black population. Also they need to do something with the travesty known as WJHM in Orlando. WPGC is getting for now by but the question for how much longer can it do this?

I have to wonder what are the long-term goals of the radio division of the CBS Corp. because the formats they're banking upon have such a limited shelf life with the way demographics nationwide are trending.

 

[bringbackradio]

CBS is extremely disrespectful to the format within itself overall. There are markets where CBS has a heap-load of stations that just waste airspace with repetitive formats in markets like Houston, Dallas, Baltimore, Cleveland, even Boston and Los Angeles. These places are where they could either program a full-fledged urban contemporary (full-service like WVEE) or urban-leaning CHRurban like WZMX due to diverse demographics and/or higher than average black population. Also they need to do something with the travesty known as WJHM in Orlando. WPGC is getting for now by but the question for how much longer can it do this?

I have to wonder what are the long-term goals of the radio division of the CBS Corp. because the formats they're banking upon have such a limited shelf life with the way demographics nationwide are trending.

For an urban format CBS programs well and invests in, such as the well known cash cow in Atlanta, there is always two that CBS half-asses it, such as in DC and Orlando -- and those are CHR-billed urbans. That doesn't make sense and it wasn't always this way.

Now for comparison purposes I'm grouping the CBS urbans and rhythmics (past and present), even though the latter format no longer has that "urban top 40" focus that it once had based on some key points.
1) The only long term CBS rhythmic still around that STUCK with it is KSFM Sacramento (even though it is whitebred despite its heritage)
2) At one time WBBM Chicago and the former KTFM San Antonio (on 102.7) were rhythmic before both went top 40
3) The former KRBV in Dallas went top 40 when it changed the handle from "Hot 100.3" to "Wild 100.3". Ironically this was another R&B heritage station CBS let fall by the wayside beforehand.
4) Another CBS rhythmic well programmed was KQBT (later KXBT) in Austin (1998-2007) although it was the weakest money maker in its cluster there.
5) The only new station under the urban/rhythmic umbrella is KZON Phoenix.

 

[anatharadiorefugee]

Donta thos revenue numbers youwere waiting for have been posted by Dave on DCRTV.com. As you predicted PGC came in second in this messurement. Several million ahead of their two chief competitors WKYS followed by HOT 99-5. I have no idea how to characterize the revenue race between these three stations. It defies logic that the station with consistently higher ratings would come in third. The easy race argument even fails as HOT's demos are more white than PGC and KYS yet both of them beat HOT by nearly 7 million and 1 million respectively. Who ever at PGC who sold that soul got pretty good deal. To all who agree with me that PGC's programming lacks a coherent target must also agree with Donta that changes are not likely when they are able to sell like that. Got lemons? PGC says make some damn tasty lemonaide.

 

[donta1974]

Donta thos revenue numbers youwere waiting for have been posted by Dave on DCRTV.com. As you predicted PGC came in second in this messurement. Several million ahead of their two chief competitors WKYS followed by HOT 99-5. I have no idea how to characterize the revenue race between these three stations. It defies logic that the station with consistently higher ratings would come in third. The easy race argument even fails as HOT's demos are more white than PGC and KYS yet both of them beat HOT by nearly 7 million and 1 million respectively. Who ever at PGC who sold that soul got pretty good deal. To all who agree with me that PGC's programming lacks a coherent target must also agree with Donta that changes are not likely when they are able to sell like that. Got lemons? PGC says make some damn tasty lemonaide.

I think that WPGC`s programming issues still fall back on CBS Radio Corp. in New York IMO and I do not disagree with you about the programming. They should have just left it young end Urban and it still billed just about the same very well.

 

[kilamanjero]

Donta thos revenue numbers youwere waiting for have been posted by Dave on DCRTV.com. As you predicted PGC came in second in this messurement. Several million ahead of their two chief competitors WKYS followed by HOT 99-5. I have no idea how to characterize the revenue race between these three stations. It defies logic that the station with consistently higher ratings would come in third. The easy race argument even fails as HOT's demos are more white than PGC and KYS yet both of them beat HOT by nearly 7 million and 1 million respectively. Who ever at PGC who sold that soul got pretty good deal. To all who agree with me that PGC's programming lacks a coherent target must also agree with Donta that changes are not likely when they are able to sell like that. Got lemons? PGC says make some damn tasty lemonaide.

I think that WPGC`s programming issues still fall back on CBS Radio Corp. in New York IMO and I do not disagree with you about the programming. They should have just left it young end Urban and it still billed just about the same very well.

In other words, Jason Kidd is a CBS Radio corporate puppet. That explains it because WPGC doesn't sound like a DC radio station like it did under Rob Scorpio, Skip Dillard, or Jay Stevens. Hell, you place WPGC in the middle of New York's mediocre urban radio market and it would fit right in nicely.

 

[donta1974]

Donta thos revenue numbers youwere waiting for have been posted by Dave on DCRTV.com. As you predicted PGC came in second in this messurement. Several million ahead of their two chief competitors WKYS followed by HOT 99-5. I have no idea how to characterize the revenue race between these three stations. It defies logic that the station with consistently higher ratings would come in third. The easy race argument even fails as HOT's demos are more white than PGC and KYS yet both of them beat HOT by nearly 7 million and 1 million respectively. Who ever at PGC who sold that soul got pretty good deal. To all who agree with me that PGC's programming lacks a coherent target must also agree with Donta that changes are not likely when they are able to sell like that. Got lemons? PGC says make some damn tasty lemonaide.

I think that WPGC`s programming issues still fall back on CBS Radio Corp. in New York IMO and I do not disagree with you about the programming. They should have just left it young end Urban and it still billed just about the same very well.

In other words, Jason Kidd is a CBS Radio corporate puppet. That explains it because WPGC doesn't sound like a DC radio station like it did under Rob Scorpio, Skip Dillard, or Jay Stevens. Hell, you place WPGC in the middle of New York's mediocre urban radio market and it would fit right in nicely.

Well I am not going to say that Jason Kidd is a corporate puppet I am not sure about that but he is a Rhythmic PD and CBS Radio chose to go with a Rhythmic format in response to PPM. I am sure that they love the fact that WPGC seems to always be a hot topic on this board. IMO the company panicked with PPM instead of sticking with what worked under Jay Stevens and took there lumps until things settled down with PPM. PGC `s ratings dipped big time with the intro of PPM right after they got rid of GO-GO 95(Scorpio) and got rid of the Midday mix(Saunders). As Dave Hughes has said and the recent numbers back him up in DC all or most of the stations are programmed for Ad revenue and not for listners look at the Ad numbers. WPGC I agree does not sound like a DC station but IMO WKYS plays a lot of crap as well ie Future "Karate Chop" and Ace Hood and his "Bugotti" crappy Hip-Hop or a bunch of young girl R and B singers who can not sing and I understand that they and WERQ have Urban AC sister stations but damn come up off of it a little bit" Kiss" and 92 Q sound just about the same.

 

[radiolives]

WPGC sounds a lot better then that mess in Orlando at 102 jamz. For some reason CBS let Cox's Power 95.3 take over and now CBS seems to be going more after the Clear Channel pop station.