WPRO, WBZ, 'RANK' higher than WHJJ!!!

[tbetz]

> The only question now is not IF Air America will kill of
> WHJJ entirely, but WHEN.

If WHJJ had committed completely to a Progressive Radio format, like other, more successful, Clear Channel stations (KPOJ in Portland, OR is a sterling example, as is WXXM in Madison, WI) your argument might hold water.

What I see there is a mishmosh.

For example, what is a morning-jock kind of guy like Geoff Charles doing on at 8PM? What is a reactionary like Imus doing on a station with Springer, Franken and Rhodes?<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[coolidge]

> If WHJJ had committed completely to a Progressive Radio
> format, like other, more successful, Clear Channel stations
> (KPOJ in Portland, OR is a sterling example, as is WXXM in
> Madison, WI) your argument might hold water.

If they had, the situation would be even worse.



> For example, what is a morning-jock kind of guy like Geoff
> Charles doing on at 8PM?

What's he doing on at all?



> What is a reactionary like Imus
> doing on a station with Springer, Franken and Rhodes?

He's the only thing keeping that station from falling completely through the basement. WHJJ would be foolish to drop him. What would they replace him with? Morning Sedition??

 

[tbetz]

> > If WHJJ had committed completely to a Progressive Radio
> > format, like other, more successful, Clear Channel
> > stations (KPOJ in Portland, OR is a sterling example, as is WXXM in
> > Madison, WI) your argument might hold water.
>
> If they had, the situation would be even worse.

Because they haven't, you can only guess.

> > For example, what is a morning-jock kind of guy like Geoff
> > Charles doing on at 8PM?
>
> What's he doing on at all?

Having not heard a lot of him, I didn't want to take it that far; but from what little I've heard, I would concur in this question.

> > What is a reactionary like Imus
> > doing on a station with Springer, Franken and Rhodes?
>
> He's the only thing keeping that station from falling
> completely through the basement. WHJJ would be foolish to
> drop him. What would they replace him with? Morning
> Sedition??

Not necessarily.

Many Clear Channel stations (for example, WXXM) are having great success with Stephanie Miller. She makes a great lead-in to Springer.

Imus makes a lousy lead-in to Springer.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[missdj]

Re: WPRO higher than WHJJ but should be higher

> > > WHJJ has had the long awaited MELTDOWN. !!
> >
> > It's funny how WHJJ's 12+ ratings have dropped since
> Spring
> > '04 exactly the same amount as conservative talker WPRO's
> > 12+ ratings have dropped in the same period, 1.3 points,
> but
> > only for WHJJ, you consider it a "meltdown".
> >
> > Could it be, perhaps, because you have some political
> > agenda?
> >
> > Considering that AAR programming is outperforming the
> > second-tier conservative talkers in other markets's 25-54
> > demos, I wouldn't be surprised to find that Clear Channel
> is
> > pretty happy with the numbers they are seeing right now.
> >>>>>>>>>
> Tom,
> WBZ beat WHJJ!!! WBZ is 80 miles away, in a different State.
> How can you call that politics. Is this a 'No Spin Zone"
> or what????
> Alan.


wpro may have beaten whjj but shouldnt their numbers been much larger?? they arent as good as one would think if whjj is doing so poorly. air america does stink.. i bet clearchannel does something about that network before the year is out. as for depetro coming back, isnt he under contract over at wrko for a few more years???
>

 

[doc9464]

Tom Betz is right. In the books currenly listed on R&R, WPRO has lost the same ratings points as WHJJ. Yet, people here keep saying thats not true...

The main point once again is that WPRO has a lousy lineup which is masked by the performance of Rush and Savage. I think it would be common belief that the highest ratings would come from Rush and Savage. Otherwise, the quality of the people currently hosting on PRO is really terrible.

There are few people on this board who have not taken a shot at the drivetime and morning shows on PRO. I just find it amazing that WHJJ is criticized. With the exception of Geoff Charles, the quality of the hosts is much better. Tom and I agree that WHJJ needs to commit 100% to the progressive format....just for slightly different reasons.

Mornings are vulnerable, Violet would beat Kass easily,a and Drivetime is a easy takeaway due to the low quality Yorke delivers. WPRO is assured of beating WHJJ only at 12N with Rush. I'd really stop crowing about the "superiority" of the WPRO lineup. WHJJ needs to make the adjustments to put this argument down once and for all.

 

[nospam02908]

I am not defending WHJJ's programming choices, but WPRO's aren't much better. I have a point that no one covered below. Many folks forget that a large chunk of ratings for WPRO come from Red Sox Baseball from March through September. With the Red Sox moving to WEEI-FM in 2006, expect an additional drop in ratings on WPRO in the Fall and Summer books. After Red Sox baseball leaves the station, I think you will be able to do a better comparison between the 12+ numbers.

> WHJJ has had the long awaited MELTDOWN. !!
> A Boston Ma. station, WBZ, has a higher ranking than WHJJ
> the local R.I. station!!!!Never heard of! General Manager
> Jim Corwin should immediately resign .
> Reasons,
> 1) Losing John Depetro.
> 2)Gettimg Air America.
> 3) Geoff Charles drug infested AM talk show. -Ranked lowest!
>
> 4) That SCAM promotion- 'Whos going to be the next great HJJ
> Talk show Host.'
> 5) Lowest ranking of a once great station.
> WHJJ should immediately offer DEPETRO WHATEVER he wants
> to get him back on HJJ. 2nd, Hire Helen Glover, Tony
> Farr,lure Matt Allen in for local talk back up. 3rd, Laura
> Ingraham, (if available), Dr. Laura, for national content.
> Finally, How could Clear Channel EVER let this
> happen.???!!!
> Alan.
>

 

[coolidge]

> Tom Betz is right. In the books currenly listed on R&R, WPRO
> has lost the same ratings points as WHJJ. Yet, people here
> keep saying thats not true...

And yet, WPRO still has more than double the listeners. WHJJ loses more, book after book. That's not the case with WPRO. Before Air America, before losing DePetro, WHJJ and WPRO were competitors. That's over.

 

[coolidge]

> > > If WHJJ had committed completely to a Progressive Radio
> > > format, like other, more successful, Clear Channel
> > > stations (KPOJ in Portland, OR is a sterling example, as
> is WXXM in
> > > Madison, WI) your argument might hold water.
> >
> > If they had, the situation would be even worse.
>
> Because they haven't, you can only guess.


Obviously. But advocating that WHJJ drop the only shows that are actually drawing listeners in favor of untested "progressive" hosts that have already failed once (i.e., Stephanie Miller) is foolish. It does not take a crystal ball to believe that ratings would be ever lower than they are now if such a development were to occur.

 

[tbetz]

> But advocating that WHJJ drop the only shows
> that are actually drawing listeners in favor of untested
> "progressive" hosts that have already failed once (i.e.,
> Stephanie Miller) is foolish.

Where has Stefanie Miller failed?

WXXM in Madison WI has improved its 12+ share by 2.9 points from Winter '04 to Winter '05 with Miller in the 8 to 11 AM slot. KTLK in LA, where she's in morning drive, has quadrupled its Spring 12+ share over the sports format that was there a year ago.

Ideally, Clear Channel has been trying to put solid local hosts into the morning drive slot on its Progressive Talk stations. Those that are doing the best, like KPOJ in Portland, are the ones with strong local morning drive.

Miller would probably fit better in the 9-12 slot in Providence... better than Springer, anyway.

A lot of people like Springer on the radio, but while I like him as a person, I don't get his attraction as a radio personality.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[coolidge]

> Where has Stefanie Miller failed?

I guess you aren't aware that this isn't her first attempt at a nationally syndicated radio show?

 

[tbetz]

> > Where has Stefanie Miller failed?
>
> I guess you aren't aware that this isn't her first attempt
> at a nationally syndicated radio show?

Doubtless, she's learned a few things since then.

Did she have backing, or did she try to do it herself?<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[coolidge]

> > > Where has Stefanie Miller failed?
> >
> > I guess you aren't aware that this isn't her first attempt
>
> > at a nationally syndicated radio show?
>
> Doubtless, she's learned a few things since then.

Are you sure?


>
> Did she have backing, or did she try to do it herself?

Backing. ABC Radio.

 

[doc9464]

> > But advocating that WHJJ drop the only shows
> > that are actually drawing listeners in favor of untested
> > "progressive" hosts that have already failed once (i.e.,
> > Stephanie Miller) is foolish.
>
> Where has Stefanie Miller failed?
>
> WXXM in Madison WI has improved its 12+ share by 2.9 points
> from Winter '04 to Winter '05 with Miller in the 8 to 11 AM
> slot. KTLK in LA, where she's in morning drive, has
> quadrupled its Spring 12+ share over the sports format that
> was there a year ago.
>
> Ideally, Clear Channel has been trying to put solid local
> hosts into the morning drive slot on its Progressive Talk
> stations. Those that are doing the best, like KPOJ in
> Portland, are the ones with strong local morning drive.
>
> Miller would probably fit better in the 9-12 slot in
> Providence... better than Springer, anyway.

Tom, I don't know if you have listened to WHJJ. I don't think Imus is a good progressive choice for WHJJ. I think AAR has a problem with Morning Sedition as the morning lead and I don't think Springer is the best choice for that time. I do enjoy Stephanie Miller but she is on in Boston in the AM. What should WHJJ offer (suggestion) in that slot. I have suggested moving reliable host Arlene Violet in this slot....to keep the local flair..but I don't have a good suggestion for the morning show and I don't know any local hosts who could give WHJJ a morning liberal/progressive boost.

Otherwise, there was a posting about the affects of the Red Sox broadcasts, even with the Sox, WPRO had a 1.3 point drop - despite having the world champions on since April. This should point out as a weakness in their schedule and ability to draw.

Your thoughts on the current schedule?
>
> A lot of people like Springer on the radio, but while I like
> him as a person, I don't get his attraction as a radio
> personality.
>

 

[tbetz]

> What should WHJJ offer (suggestion) in that slot.

I really believe that CC's stated national strategy of putting local programming into morning drive (even if you have to import someone from the other side of the country, as KPOJ did -- very successfully -- with Thom Hartmann) is the right strategy for the Progressive Talk format. However, it's hard to find the right talent for morning drive. While they are looking, they need to depend on syndicated programming.

Morning Sedition is really a local NYC program with some broader appeal tacked on; while it has gained some following all over the country (it seems to be very popular in Madison, WI, for example), it's not suitable as morning drive for most markets.

Have you heard Bill Press? He has recently been working on a morning drive show, currently only airing on one station in Akron, but with the intention of wider syndication. I have heard him doing fill-in on AAR, but I haven't heard his current show -- as a seasoned broadcast pro, he's certainly worth a listen.

A couple of questions:

The two Boston rimshots Stefanie Miller is on in Boston don't really reach into Providence, do they? It seems like they shouldn't be an obstacle for Clear Channel to bring her into that market.

Also, Arlene Violet's style seems to be so dependent on callers that she might not be suitable for mornings. Am I wrong in that?<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[morescrapple]

> I am not defending WHJJ's programming choices, but WPRO's
> aren't much better. I have a point that no one covered
> below. Many folks forget that a large chunk of ratings for
> WPRO come from Red Sox Baseball from March through
> September. With the Red Sox moving to WEEI-FM in 2006,
> expect an additional drop in ratings on WPRO in the Fall and
> Summer books. After Red Sox baseball leaves the station, I
> think you will be able to do a better comparison between the
> 12+ numbers.
>
Sure, that might happen, but WHJJ's implosion's ALREADY occurred.
>

 

[doc9464]

> I really believe that CC's stated national strategy of
> putting local programming into morning drive (even if you
> have to import someone from the other side of the country,
> as KPOJ did -- very successfully -- with Thom Hartmann) is
> the right strategy for the Progressive Talk format.
> However, it's hard to find the right talent for morning
> drive. While they are looking, they need to depend on
> syndicated programming.

Stephanie is using her flagship (KTLK in LA) to do this for the station...but her show at best is nationally focused....but I agree that this idea seems to work well....i believe Leon Gray is also going to do this at Entercoms 680 AM in Memphis....I just dont know a lot of liberal morning talent..but Im sure there are plenty of good resources we just havent run into yet or heard on the air.
>
> Morning Sedition is really a local NYC program with some
> broader appeal tacked on; while it has gained some following
> all over the country (it seems to be very popular in
> Madison, WI, for example), it's not suitable as morning
> drive for most markets.

Agreed, I think the show needs work although the chemistry between the two Marks is pretty good...they need to broaden appeal somewhat ...in my template schedule I have to leave them out...they are OK but hopefully the rumors about Jim Hightower joining are true...it might help broaden appeal...or they could simpoy add Rachel Maddow..thats a boost as well.
>
> Have you heard Bill Press? He has recently been working on a
> morning drive show, currently only airing on one station in
> Akron, but with the intention of wider syndication. I have
> heard him doing fill-in on AAR, but I haven't heard his
> current show -- as a seasoned broadcast pro, he's certainly
> worth a listen.

I haven't heard him personally....OA might know as I believe he was in the area Bill Press was testing (Akron). I have heard some favorable feedback about Christy Harvey his co-host but don't know overall how the show is performing.
>
> A couple of questions:
>
> The two Boston rimshots Stefanie Miller is on in Boston
> don't really reach into Providence, do they? It seems like
> they shouldn't be an obstacle for Clear Channel to bring her
> into that market.

1200 reaches clearly into Attleboro/Pawtucket, and begins to fade after that...I wouldn't object to two sources for Stephanie....but Id like to see variety as well

> Also, Arlene Violet's style seems to be so dependent on
> callers that she might not be suitable for mornings. Am I
> wrong in that?

I think Arlene has the energy to do pretty well what she wants....while im not the biggest fan, she has a solid following and she is a good solid local host. I could see her make the adjustments to transition to mornings...plus she might be able to get some good interviews if she decides to limit calls.

 

[tbetz]

> > Did she have backing, or did she try to do it herself?
>
> Backing. ABC Radio.

What year was that?

Things have changed since 2004, now that AAR and Democracy Radio have broken open the "Progressive Talk" format, proving that there is, indeed, a significant audience for liberal talk radio.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[coolidge]

> > > Did she have backing, or did she try to do it herself?
> >
> > Backing. ABC Radio.
>
> What year was that?

You'd think a "progressive" radio expert like yourself would know. Answer: 1999/2000.



> Things have changed since 2004, now that AAR and Democracy
> Radio have broken open the "Progressive Talk" format,
> proving that there is, indeed, a significant audience for
> liberal talk radio.

Except, apparently, in Providence - as evidenced by WHJJ's efforts.

 

[tbetz]

> > > > Did she have backing, or did she try to do it herself?
>
> > >
> > > Backing. ABC Radio.
> >
> > What year was that?
>
> You'd think a "progressive" radio expert like yourself would
> know. Answer: 1999/2000.

Where have I ever called myself an "expert"? I know what I know, and when I don't know, I ask. That's called "the learning process". You might try it some time.

Back then, nearly all program directors subscribed to the dogma that nobody will listen to liberal talk radio. Because they stucke what few liberal talkers there were in the middle of a format based on conservative talkers, the dogma was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now that stations are being flipped to liberal talk as a format, that dogma is being proved false.

Once WHJJ gets on the stick and flips the whole station (and gets rid of that gawdawful morning zoo guy they have in the evenings), instead of just some of the dayparts, it will do better, too. Even now, considering that the average conservative talk listener is 60+, and the average AAR listener is 48, they've almost certainly improved their demographics.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>

 

[coolidge]

> Where have I ever called myself an "expert"?

If you're not an expert, you have no business making sweeping generalizations such as: "Things have changed since 2004, now that AAR and Democracy Radio have broken open the "Progressive Talk" format, proving that there is, indeed, a significant audience for liberal talk radio."




> Once WHJJ gets on the stick and flips the whole station (and
> gets rid of that gawdawful morning zoo guy they have in the
> evenings), instead of just some of the dayparts, it will do
> better, too.

What evidence do you have of this? Only a blinkered ideologue would look at the disaster that's happened at WHJJ since it flipped to AAR and suggest that the solution is more of what is causing the problem.