WRDU GOING ALL TALK

[B Lewis]

In light of WUNC Public Radio's success...and the way WPTF got nailed, what do you guys think the feasibility of bringing on a few 'progressive' hosts to counter Rush, Hannity, etc. Of course, NPR is the 'left' mothership, so I wonder if giving WPTF some variety and an 'updated' image would help...or make things worse for it. Curtis (especially WPTF and WQDR are running lots of prime time TV spots). I noticed that a few weeks before the numbers came out. I noticed them on Fox 50 a few times Sunday evening.

 

[DToTheJ]

... anyone who thinks its over after one book is oversimplifying the whole thing. Or they probably work for Clear Channel...

I didn't necessarily say it was "over" in the talk format horse race in RDU. Now, if 106.1 gets morning numbers (share and demos) both in the Top 5, then it's over.

 

[Kabrich]

... anyone who thinks its over after one book is oversimplifying the whole thing. Or they probably work for Clear Channel...

I didn't necessarily say it was "over" in the talk format horse race in RDU. Now, if 106.1 gets morning numbers (share and demos) both in the Top 5, then it's over.

There is nothing magic about Top 5 - except that you haven't reached that number....but.....

WRDU is already the #4 station P12+ and P25-54 Non-Ethnic Commerical Station and #5 in AM Drive in the Winter Quarterly.

Stick a fork in it - It's over. WPTF has no Cume magnets any longer. We've seen this scenario over and over with talk stations.

 

[Kabrich]

In light of WUNC Public Radio's success...and the way WPTF got nailed, what do you guys think the feasibility of bringing on a few 'progressive' hosts to counter Rush, Hannity, etc. Of course, NPR is the 'left' mothership, so I wonder if giving WPTF some variety and an 'updated' image would help...or make things worse for it. Curtis (especially WPTF and WQDR are running lots of prime time TV spots). I noticed that a few weeks before the numbers came out. I noticed them on Fox 50 a few times Sunday evening.

Despite what you would read every morning in the trades that would tell you every other day what a success Radio America and XM/Sirius was - up until the point where they failed - the fact remains that Liberal Talk has never worked except for a few hours with a very local host in a few isolated markets.

Given NPR is on WUNC-FM - and on FM instead of AM, there is no chance that would help WPTF - in fact since NPR is so strong on WUNC-FM, it would make it even that much harder.

 

[carolinaradio]

Stick a fork in it - It's over. WPTF has no Cume magnets any longer. We've seen this scenario over and over with talk stations.

I don't understand the thing with WPTF. Couldn't we see the handwriting on the wall back when this was announced? WPTF's glory days are now over. Talkers on FM do very well - look at WTOP just as one example...some do even better after adding/moving to FM. Plus they skew younger. A lot of if not most younger listeners avoid the AM band like the plague. Add that with the big shows (like them or not) that WRDU has - they will kill WPTF. It might be a shame, call it whatever, but it's the reality.

Dare I suggest this, but WPTF might benefit from adding an FM simulcast.

 

[B Lewis]

Yes, I can see your point about progressive talk. A mixture with a live and local host with a more progressive approach would be what I had in mind...or maybe they could take on Randi Rhodes (formerly w/Air America) in a non-prime time spot, to test it's viablility. However, you are right, with the exception on NPR, there is no constant source of liberal talk that has really caught on. I worked in Public Radio for 10 years. I remember following WUNC's numbers then (in the early 90's). Though their numbers are not published with the commercial stations, they are definitely a force in the market!

We will likely end up with hundreds more 50KW powerhourse AM stations going to waste across the nation. Taking the WPTF issue a little further, the industry should test the Adult Standards format. Of course, Arbitron and agencies are not interested in people over 64. However, that is a segment of the population (baby boomers...my father would be 63 this year...for example. He was a teenager between 1960-1967... Maybe it is time for the industry to begin giving that segment of the population more attention. Unfortunately, my father died at 59, which is unusual. People are easily living to be older than 80 or 90 these days.

I am not saying it's time to completely revamp WPTF...but, it's definitely time to shake the 'sleeping giant'. I agree with an earlier post. I think it's over for WPTF, as for it's being a leader in the market. What they DO have going for them (IMHO) is local news. WRDU has it, but I think WPTF does it WAY better.

I still believe AM has some viable potential. With the advent of digital AM, I believe if more actual receivers make it into the market, some of these stations could be brought back to like with niche programming. Time will tell...it will be interesting to watch as things continue to develop between WPTF and WRDU.

 

[Kabrich]

Curtis Media Group President/CEO Phil Zachary stated about the change of 570AM “with more than 200,000 Triangle listeners currently cumeing one of the market’s AMs, I think we have a large enough prospective user pool for sampling music on AM.”

Well, as much as I hate to say this about someone running a Broadcast Group, the facts lead me to believe he is either 1) Ignorant on how to read Arbitron Ratings or 2) A Liar.

Problem is, if you Add UP ALL the AM's in the Raleigh-Durham Metro ("The Triangle Listeners") you only end up with 167,000.

But there is another issue. As anyone who has ever worked in Broadcast Management knows, one cannot add Cume Numbers in Arbitron as almost everyone who fills out a diary listens to more than one station. That means that if you add the 97,300 Cume of WPTF-AM and the 24,100 Cume of WKIX-AM there are NOT 121,400 unique listeners between the 2 stations, as a number of listeners tune to BOTH stations -so the number of ACTUAL listeners far lower than 121,400.

Thus, Zachary is either lying to the public and press in his statements - or he simply made a mistake because he does not know how to read an Arbitron - neither scenario makes him look very good.

So you really expect someone like this to be able to "fix" WPTF?

And if anyone is interested, the 12+ Cume Number for the AMs in the market:

RALEIGH-DURHAM (Radio) - Winter 2010
Demos: P 12+ Pop: 1331158 Intab: 2075
Qualitative Selection: none
Geo Area: RALEIGH-DURHAM METRO - Std
Stations: User Selected
# Dayparts: 1
Ranked By: P 12+ - Cume Pers (00) (All Selected Stations)

P 12+
Cume
Station Daypart Weeks Pers (00)
-------------------------- ------------------------------------ ---------- -------------
WPTF-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 973
WDNC-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 355
WKIX-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 241
WTSB-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 109
WDOX-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 100
WCHL-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 98
WDRU-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 92
WPJL-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 82
WCKB-AM M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 49
ANALYSIS TOTAL M-Su 6:00AM - 12:00M 1 - 12 1670

AGAIN,THESE NUMBERS ARE NOT ADDITIVE.

What they DO have going for them (IMHO) is local news. WRDU has it, but I think WPTF does it WAY better.

Let's hope the accuracy of the News on WPTF is better than what we have seen from the person running it.

 

[DToTheJ]

Wow, thanks for sharing... I guess the calls that once stood for "We Protect The Family" should now stand for "We're Preparing To Fail." I guess carolinaradio's bold suggestion above...

Dare I suggest this, but WPTF might benefit from adding an FM simulcast.

... could be the only viable "last ditch effort" to save WPTF as a talker. I hate to paraphrase a Bible parable, but a second-place talk station cannot live on second-tier programming alone. As a poster pointed out, their news department is stellar, but in today's age where more people have other options to get their news, it could turn out to be moot.

 

[surfdude]

Kabrich said...
Problem is, if you Add UP ALL the AM's in the Raleigh-Durham Metro ("The Triangle Listeners") you only end up with 167,000.

Maybe he quoted a four book average...or TSA numbers. He was just giving out a round number for a press release.

All those old diary numbers are history anyway. PPM will change things dramatically very soon.

Randy Kabrich "consultant", still his charming self. Winning friends and losing clients everytime he speaks.

 

[FIDELIPACK]

No kidding. I don't know this "Kabrich" but he seems really pissed off.

 

[Kabrich]

Kabrich said...
Problem is, if you Add UP ALL the AM's in the Raleigh-Durham Metro ("The Triangle Listeners") you only end up with 167,000.

Maybe he quoted a four book average...or TSA numbers. He was just giving out a round number for a press release.

All those old diary numbers are history anyway. PPM will change things dramatically very soon.

Randy Kabrich "consultant", still his charming self. Winning friends and losing clients everytime he speaks.

No kidding. I don't know this "Kabrich" but he seems really pissed off.

Zachary now claims those were "TSA" numbers - so his definition of "Triangle Listeners" is Burlington-Henderson-Greenville-Fayetteville. Unfortunately, no one else (and certainly no Government Authority) has ever referred to that as the triangle. He might as well use Charlotte-Greensboro-Henderson-New Bern-Fayetteville as "triangle" listeners to inflate the number even more.

Fidelpack - If you don't know me, just check the History of G-105 and who was responsible for taking it from a 1.7 to a 14.5 share over 3 years. Who originally beat the long time Top 40 leader on 107.5 in Greensboro/High Point/Winston Salem. Who put 95.1 on in Charlotte as a Top 40. Who Consulted 102.9 in Charlotte from #13 P25-54 to the #1 AC beating and leaving WBCY in the dust. Consulted WNCT-FM/Greenville-NewBern-Jacksonville in to a Top 5 contender. Among others.

And as my clients know, I am not afraid to call the baby ugly - unlike most Consultants in America.

Surfdude - never claimed to be a running for office. Radio Stations are living entities as far as I am concerned and I am as much as an activist when they are abused for years as Animal Activists are protecting Wildlife. So yes, it upsets me the way WPTF has been abused over the years.

 

[surfdude]

Well Kabrich. nobody's hired you to "consult" WPTF in such a public, libelous way.
Is this your new "marketing plan" to pick up clients?

I've worked for Phil Zachary for nine years and you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[tripcity]

Well Kabrich. nobody's hired you to "consult" WPTF in such a public, libelous way.
Is this your new "marketing plan" to pick up clients?

I've worked for Phil Zachary for nine years and you couldn't be more wrong.

Well hopefully your clueless ass-kissing will be noted when the blood letting begins over at Curtis. Kabrich's observations, while troubling to yourself and those you work with, are just that, observations. Sticking ones head in the sand won't solve it. If I worked for Curtis I would be more concerned with what managment is doing to stave off a tragic situation befalling a historic station like PTF instead of yelling at some guy on a radio board that chooses to quote numbers from Arbitron and can do simple addition.

PS: if you are waiting for PPM to rescue your numbers, don't hold you breath. Ive now been through two Diary to PPM switchovers in a couple different markets and history is not on your side.

 

[carolinaradio]

Wow, thanks for sharing... I guess the calls that once stood for "We Protect The Family" should now stand for "We're Preparing To Fail." I guess carolinaradio's bold suggestion above...

Dare I suggest this, but WPTF might benefit from adding an FM simulcast.

... could be the only viable "last ditch effort" to save WPTF as a talker. I hate to paraphrase a Bible parable, but a second-place talk station cannot live on second-tier programming alone. As a poster pointed out, their news department is stellar, but in today's age where more people have other options to get their news, it could turn out to be moot.

Heritage AM powerhouses across the country have added FM simulcasts; KCBS/SFO, WBAP/Dallas, KIRO/Seattle, etc. Putting it on an FM signal would help them, even demographically.

Second place talk station, second tier programming, AM...they need to do something. The news department will not carry the station.

 

[surfdude]

Well hopefully your clueless ass-kissing will be noted when the blood letting begins over at Curtis.

Nice try Keyboard Kowboy, but I don't work for Curtis Media anymore, and never worked for WPTF. Just saying Kabrich's wrong about Zachary. Zachary's an excellent radio guy, and really doesn't need my defense.

Stay classy.

 

[osamaobama]

1. I know Phil Zachary and I'm sorry that I do. He's the NC version of Herb Tarlek. I need to wash my hands after typing his name.

2. What good are numbers if you can't sell them? 106 continues to air psa's inside Rush Limbaugh. Heard a minutes worth going into the show today. PPM will squash their little ride.

:

 

[triadradionewsman]

Well Kabrich. nobody's hired you to "consult" WPTF in such a public, libelous way.
Is this your new "marketing plan" to pick up clients?

I've worked for Phil Zachary for nine years and you couldn't be more wrong.

Randy, you must have pushed the right buttons to anger surfdude so much. Its really funny how when someone has different opinions from the Raleigh radio establishment, folks go to the attack mode. Hey, we all have opinions and its sad when folks get so upset on here. In the words of the great victim Rodney King "why can't we all get along" or words to that effect.

 

[CCAlumni]

We do all have opinions and that's what makes these boards interesting and entertaining. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks things have turned a bit dark and ugly on this thread. But knowing most of the parties involved, some of this is a little sickening to me. Its sad.

 

[surfdude]

surfdude is far from angry. "Some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine".

In fact, I'm diggin' some Ferlin Husky on Classic Country 570 AM as I'm typ.....zzzzz

 

[CCAlumni]

Now yer talkin'!