WRKO going HD?

[RedWingCJS278]

Wow, some of you seem downright hostile toward AM HD, and HD radio in general. Okay ... I think it's a great product that is affordable and will catch on in time if promoted properly, but what do I know? <shrugs shoulders>

 

[Don Juannn]

You have got to be kidding!!!!!

Have you heard WBZ in HD? Sounds great!

Sounds like they are in the same room!

 

[DanStrassberg]

Have you heard WBZ in HD? Sounds great! Sounds like they are in the same room!

AM stereo sounded good too. You note how that changed the radio landscape--NOT. Even if AM-band IBOC were not so seriously flawed technically, its acceptance would depend on nontechnical market forces. When it comes to AM-band IBOC, those forces seem nowhere to be found. If you don't believe that, Google a blog posted within the last few months by Tom Ray, VP of Engineering for Buckley/WOR. Tom was the driving force behind WOR's early adoption of AM-band IBOC and has been the most vocal proponent of the AM-band technology that I know of. After trying unsuccessfully to buy a new Ford vehicle with a factory-installed HD Radio, he is almost at the point of giving up on IBOC (at least on the AM band). Mel Karmazin has totally outgunned iBiquity, especially when it comes to getting Sirius/XM Radio into cars. Listening in cars is the key to success for any radio technology and AM-band IBOC just isn't there. Marketing--not technology--has everything to do with that situation. And marketing of the technology to the auto manufacturers is actually more crucial than marketing to consumers.

 

[mgpt6]

Dan, youre right. I just bought a new car and I have a 3month free XM Radio to try it out. Where I live I only get WBZ-HD on my Sony radio, and then it will not lock all the time. AM IBOC ruins AM analog and just doesnt work.

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

Just because technology says that something is possible, it does not mean
that it will catch on. Did anybody ride their jetpack to work today? I saw
this demonstrated over Fenway Park, circa 1966. Video phones? I saw this
demonstrated at the NY World's Fair in 1964. Neither ever really panned out.
AM stereo? At WLYN, we pulled the plug on that several years ago. Yea, it sounded
great (I heard it once in a car) but it was not worth the expense/effort for
such a limited audience/gain. Satellite radio - has it actually become profitable yet?
Or is it still bleeding red ink? Maybe the proponents of HD would like to buy
some Polaroid stock?

 

[Deleted User]

Sat Casters can't get the market penetration they need to turn a profit, which is caused by other things a crappy economy, where someone has to ask if it is worth 12 bucks a month for something you may use an hour a day, maybe 2 if you have a long commute.

I love my XM radio, but I spend a lot of time in my vehicles. I am at the point I am going to start taking the one from my truck, which comes out in a few seconds to work with me so I can have it for some of these 300 mile road trips I get sent on.

Most of the XM channels have decent sound, some of them are really in need of more bandwidth, but in my world, it is a great bang for the buck.

One of my ex GF's has one in her car, and pays the extra for the traffic and weather service, and loves it.

XM is also a major provider of weather services to the aviation industry.

 

[Don Juannn]

AM stereo sounded good too. You note how that changed the radio landscape--NOT.

The comparison of HD to AM Stereo is a false one.

For one thing, AM Stereo had competing standards battling it out. In order to enjoy it...you had to decide which standard you were going to buy a radio for....and know which of the competing standards your favorite radio station was broadcasting in. (And then you couldn't necessarily enjoy all the other AM stereo stations. No wonder no one bought a radio!

With HD....anyone can go pick up an HD radio and listen take advantage of the features. No fuss, no problem.

As far as "changing the radio landscape"....when did THAT become the standard?

HD is simply an added feature that you can take advantage of if you so choose....or not. Don't like it? Don't utilize it! Stay with analog.

Where I live I only get WBZ-HD on my Sony radio, and then it will not lock all the time.

OK...to stop the above from being a worthless anecdotal post.....where do you live that you can't get WBZ to lock HD?

AM IBOC ruins AM analog and just doesnt work.

Used to hear the same thing about "stereo" on FM. "It degrades the signal!!!!"

HD stations do not have any fewer listeners due to HD.

It works just fine.

But in the end...AM radio is dying, if not dead already. It's virtually unknown to anyone under 55.

 

[JIBGUY]

How come this board's iBiquity mouthpiece spells his name with 3 n's now?

 

[Don Juannn]

How come this board's iBiquity mouthpiece spells his name with 3 n's now?

Just to throw you off. ;-)

And anyone who disagrees with your opinion (and injects reality) is apparently a mouthpiece.

How's the future look for WJIB? Bright? ;-)

 

[RedWingCJS278]

I'm almost sorry I started this thread now, and to think it was just a fluke in my radio that led me to think RKO might be going digital. You folks, pro and con, sure do have strong opinions on this. Again, I certainly understand the issues at hand here. HD signals, particularity on FM HD3, can be hit or miss. IBOC hash is a legitimate concern. And there are very real cost issues, especially now with the economy being as dismal as it is. Still, I just happen to believe the positives outweigh the negatives. And, of course, very few people are going to be buying HD radios ... if they don't know about them! Advertising and promotion is everything in our economy, and I don't see very much of it coming from the industry. What I'm not hearing much of from the anti-IBOC people are solutions. Maybe there aren't any, I don't know. But how much longer can AM radio survive? I enjoy listening to WJIB every now and then, it's like going back in time to the glory days of radio. However, any music format on AM is going to have far more listeners and offer a better listening experience with clear, crisp sound ... that is, if more people KNEW what HD is. Again, promotion, promotion, promotion. Hell, if there was widespread awareness of HD and a significant number of AM's adopted it, I could foresee a revival of music on AM. This would have the added benefit of allowing formats - classical, standards, death metal, underground hip-hop, whatever - that have been largely shut out of commercial FM radio to have a viable presence on the airwaves. But I digress. Do stations like WJIB and WLYN just keep going as they are, knowing there is a very real chance they're not going to be able to survive long-term? I certainly don't want to see that happen. The fact is, listeners expect & demand better sound quality than they once did, even for news and talk formats. So, do you just fade quietly into the night, or do you take advantage of new technologies and revive yourselves? Nothing in life is perfect and without drawbacks, but there is great potential here.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Do stations like WJIB and WLYN just keep going as they are, knowing there is a very real chance they're not going to be able to survive long-term? I certainly don't want to see that happen. The fact is, listeners expect & demand better sound quality than they once did, even for news and talk formats. So, do you just fade quietly into the night, or do you take advantage of new technologies and revive yourselves? Nothing in life is perfect and without drawbacks, but there is great potential here.

Don't you get that AM-band IBOC is NOT a "solution" to the problems of any AM station with the _possible_ (repeat, POSSIBLE) exception of those with flame-thrower signals. WLYN and WJIB certainly don't fit in that category--especially at night. For such stations, AM-band IBOC is AT BEST, a don't care. For many such stations, IBOC hash from first-adjacents is stealing what is left of their potential audience.

I got a real kick out of the post yesterday (not sure what thread--maybe this one) that said the poster could not wait for WEEI(AM) to turn on IBOC. Were that to happen, and if the Carberry's have a dollar left to their name, that would be followed by WCRN also turning on IBOC. The result would be that, in a large area between Needham and Worcester, AM reception between 810 and 870 would be impossible for anyone with or without an HD Radio. In case that poster has forgotten--or never knew--WEEI and WCRN (both running 50 kW and with WCRN directionalized TOWARD WEEI and less than 40 miles away) are second adjacent to each other. 850 - 830 = 20--in case the poster is unable to do such complex math .

Someone is sure to propose "helping" AM by having the FCC make a decision to have Americans scrap close to a billion radio receivers and force all remaining US AMs to broadcast a digital-only version of HD Radio. No more analog on AM! However, such a move would put probably 2/3 of US AM stations off the air. You are probably saying, "fine; the ones that would go dark are the marginal ones anyway; it would clean up the AM band." However, the outcry from people who had lost their only free over-the-air radio reception would be deafening. Many of them could not afford to spend several hundred dollars per household for new receivers--many of which would, undoubtedly, not support ANY form of reception on the AM-band. IOW, switching AM to an all-digital version of AM-band IBOC would not help AM; it would prove to be a sure-fire way to quickly kill what's left of AM.

 

[bigtom101]

Have you heard WBZ in HD? Sounds great!

Sounds like they are in the same room!

I've heard WBZ in HD....all the way down in New Jersey at night! Sounds great...especially in the car. Nightside is one of the few things on the AM band at night worth DX'ing.

 

[raccoonradio]

Agreed with Dan about the HD stuff and what would happen on the AM dial if WEEI and WCRN turned it on. You can get WEEI in HD on an HD radio by tuning in to WMKK-HD3 btw (if the
signal's strong enough; the best I could do at work was get it for a second or two before it
went out, and when the new lights went in, screwing up much FM reception, even THAT
became impossible totally)

>>However, such a move would put probably 2/3 of US AM stations off the air.

Good point...btw isn't there a guy named Savage out in NY state who is against all this HD on
AM deal? Runs a station out that way...does not want HD hash

Just did a search, "Savage opposes HD AM" and got this (guy's name is Bob Savage...WYSL 1040)
http://www.radioworld.com/article/85620 see for more details

>>Only two weeks after HD-AM was authorized for night broadcasts back in September 2007, Citadel engineering chief Martin Stabbert succinctly summed up HD Radio's problems while ordering it shut off, citing "lackluster performance, limited benefit and … significant interference."

(And while WBZ is on HD it is also on an HD-3 on its sister station, as you can hear on their ID:
WBZ ....WBZ-HD... WBZ-FM HD-3... Boston)
You would still be able to get it on HD in THAT way if they turned the HD sig of the AM off.

 

[Time Traveler]

I don't know the guy but Savage seems to be very passionate and articulate about the subject and is constantly posting on the radio-info-HD Radio board...

 

[Schuyler]

From what little I know technically, the process of encoding a digital signal takes several seconds. (I'm not sure how many, but I believe I read it was up to 15.) The delay is long enough for stations to install a delay unit (as is used for talk shows) to hold back the analog signal long enough for it to be in sync with the digital signal when a receiver blends to analog due to poor reception.

Why would I want my local AM news source to do that, especially in an emergency? If analog went away entirely, even EAS messages would be delayed when time is of the essence.

I'm of the opinion that HD's OK for FM stations as an option, but AM's better off without it. As for eliminating analog radio entirely, why? 'Cause it worked so well on TV (not)?

Somehow, I think we'd a little safer with a simple and reliable form of technology like analog AM in times of crisis, despite AM's well-known limitations (many of which are at the receiver end).

(BTW, how long are those delays anyhow? Enquiring minds want to know!)

 

[RedWingCJS278]

Okay, let's try this. Is there potentially a way to improve upon IBOC as to reduce hash? Is there a viable alternative to IBOC - not AM Stereo, I know that was a failure - in the works? With all the amazing technology available in the world today, I would think something could be done here, but I really don't know. And I still don't see anyone offering any alternatives to save AM radio. Remember, I'm on the side of the WJIB's, WLYN's of the world, and ideally they should sound like first-class operations. If IBOC doesn't work, is there an alternative that would offer better sound quality and eliminate, to the extent possible, the reception issues? That's the question.

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

WLYN and WAZN

I hate to burst your bubble, as to the "death of AM",
but we are in the black (profitable), and we have been
so since Day One. Our ace engineers Grady Moates
and Blair Harden keep our audio loud and clean,
and we play by the rules, at all times. Thanks for
your concern!

 

[RedWingCJS278]

I am truly glad to hear that, WLYNgm, and I wish you continued success. Still, that's not the case for many other low-power AM stations ... I just want to know if there is a viable alternative to IBOC in the works or not. That's all.

 

[JIBGUY]

How's the future look for WJIB? Bright? ;-)

Actually, very bright. WJIB will outlive me. There will ALWAYS be an underserved-by-mainstream-media older audience regardless of what decade we're in. And WJIB's format has attracted a large number of people in their 30's, 40's, 50's too; largely because they are aliented by contemporary music. If AM radio dies, WJIB will be the last one to go.... all without touching the currently-offered iBLOC.

PS: The steady stream of solicitations/mailings to WJIB and WJTO from iBiquity stopped suddenly about a year ago.... around the same time that many AM stations tried it, and then dumped it.

 

[Don Juannn]

How's the future look for WJIB? Bright? ;-)

Actually, very bright. WJIB will outlive me. There will ALWAYS be an underserved-by-mainstream-media older audience regardless of what decade we're in.

That is is people live to 100 and beyond!

While I admire your efforts, your audience is dying off and it's not being replaced.

I think JIBGUY and WLYNGM are not facing the realities of the future of AM.