WRKO going HD?

[JIBGUY]

While I admire your efforts, your audience is dying off and it's not being replaced.

I think JIBGUY and WLYNGM are not facing the realities of the future of AM.

#1 above: Untrue. Didn't you read my post? I see absolutely no sign of an audience decrease at either of my stations.
#2 above: We are well aware of the situation with AM radio with all its flaws and new forms of interference. But if someone programs something different, the audience will be there. Always! - Programming trumps the negatives of old technology.

Even if I owned a lowly low-powered AM in a tiny market, I'd air country oldies in the morning, folk music in middays and standards in afternoon/eve, and I'd have a variety of different audiences. One person, the owner, could do all that, therefore run on the cheap. - There is no excuse for any AM station to die. The only ones who are killing off AM stations are the vision-impaired corporate owners (690 & 940 in Montreal come to mind).

 

[Don Juannn]

While I admire your efforts, your audience is dying off and it's not being replaced.
I think JIBGUY and WLYNGM are not facing the realities of the future of AM.

#1 above: Untrue. Didn't you read my post? I see absolutely no sign of an audience decrease at either of my stations.

Yes I did read your post. Fact is, every year they die off...and are not being replaced. And your claim to have people in their 30's listening....we'll there are no facts to back that up.

#2 above: We are well aware of the situation with AM radio with all its flaws and new forms of interference. But if someone programs something different, the audience will be there.

a.) Not if they never turn the band switch to AM...and as time goes on, less and less people are flipping that switch.

b.) And, true, "audience" will always be there you want to be a glorified TIS station and simply becoming a "utility" station...I guess there will always be a need. But in the realm of BROADcasting... AM is on life support. I suppose the Logan TIS station has "audience"...but are they broadcasting?

 

[Eli Polonsky]

While I admire your efforts, your audience is dying off and it's not being replaced.
I think JIBGUY and WLYNGM are not facing the realities of the future of AM.

#1 above: Untrue. Didn't you read my post? I see absolutely no sign of an audience decrease at either of my stations.

Yes I did read your post. Fact is, every year they die off...and are not being replaced.

WJIB is listener supported. Bob has chosen not to air commercials, he does on-air fund drives like non-commercial stations do. I'm sure that if his audience was decreasing, he would know it because it would be reflected in his donation totals.

WLYN is brokered. Brokered stations air unique (mostly ethnic) programming that is not aired on the major stations, and generally not on commercial FM stations. The program producers and their sponsors are supported by niche audiences that can not hear the programming that serves them elsewhere, and the program producers support the stations. Niche/ethnic audiences may be relatively small, but they're not going away.

#2 above: We are well aware of the situation with AM radio with all its flaws and new forms of interference. But if someone programs something different, the audience will be there.

a.) Not if they never turn the band switch to AM...and as time goes on, less and less people are flipping that switch.

b.) And, true, "audience" will always be there you want to be a glorified TIS station and simply becoming a "utility" station...I guess there will always be a need. But in the realm of BROADcasting... AM is on life support.

AM is certainly no longer in the heyday that it was 40 years ago, but it's not dying yet. Every one of the top ten Arbitron markets in the US still has at least one AM station in its 12+ top ten. Markets numbers #3 and #4 have three each in their 12+ top tens, and AM stations are #1 12+ in Chicago (market #3) and San Francisco (market #4), as well as #2 here in Boston (market #10). I don't know why you're so eager to sound the premature death knell for AM.

 

[mdovell]

Let me just chime in here a tad....

There's nothing wrong with radio but as a technology it would be better if newer technology went mainstream.

What I mean by this is that there would be at least text on a screen showing the track and name..how can sales of music increase by air play when you have to wait to the end of the song before you know what was played (assuming the dj says it at the end of the song)

AM is great for dx'ing...but the demographic target for dx'ing I don't think really works. Heck I have a shortwave and a ton of QSL's but I don't think that shortwave is really a way to sell advertising.

With AM to me at least it is great for sports and some talk but then it gets iffy. The major talkers so to speak (rush, hannity you know the rest) dominate to the point where they can be found in every city so what's the real point then?

There's always going to be a division in any medium between having diversity and originality of content and that which seeks to be profitable.

I've listened to HD radio for I think about three and a half years now. FM is fine..great actually. AM unfortunately I hardly hear that much..yes there's wbz and some disney one but not much else. If the hash burns out smaller stations the argument can be that a big company is forcing other stations to adopt and with the hash it hurts the smaller stations. But on the same level the same argument can be made when high powered stations turn on at night. Furthermore if the FCC sees that some stations might have a shorter range with hd then it would be more apt to issue more licenses and thus more potential diversity.

Is AM dying? Well what exactly is found on AM that can't be put on FM ? WBZ in boston put all it's sports on HD FM awhile ago and put WBZ's news on hd3...WEEI is on a hd substation on as well. WTKK is in hd and that's talk..wgbh is on hd and it's public..wumd is in hd and that's a college station (granted it's a bit iffy)

Sports seemed to be the killer app for AM but if switches then what?

Sometimes I can dx am hd from NYC but that's a bit iffy and it's nearly the same talk material I could get out of boston stations.

I just think that for FM hd is really the only thing that can last. AM I don't think can really support the numbers in the long term. If Am stereo had been established back in the day my statements would be different. On the same note if RDS was mandated for radios I don't think that satellite would be surging as much. Any tv you buy these days has over the air a epg built in (comes from the vbi data like closed captioning). If radio doesn't have text then what's the selling point? If radio had a epg (which supposedly there's something in the works) people would listen more to it. What's on the air? Well if you don't have a printed schedule and didn't hear I guess you have to guess. A future hd radio tivo might be nice as well. Why rush home to listen to a radio program? If you can record cable what should make this that hard?

As for being corporate and all I would highly recommend looking at the way how greater media has wbos set up in boston (and that one in detroit) I don't work for them but their hd2 stations have quite a bit of original content

 

[KB1OKL]

You have got to be kidding!!!!!

Have you heard WBZ in HD? Sounds great!

Sounds like they are in the same room!

Sounds great if you like VERY artificial sounding voices, all highs with too much sibilance, sounds like an old hifi speaker with a defective mid range speaker. HD will be going the way of the horse and buggy soon unlike AM which will live on.

 

[davalvideo]

Frankly, the only thing wrong with AM radio now is the same thing that's always been wrong with it, and that is the fact that it is AM. AM radio is lower fidlelity, especially for music, and what HD radio does is improve that fidelity so it sounds like FM. HD radio claims to do no more than that. One reason that HD Radio has not taken off as some hoped it would it because there was never a major promotional campaign to get the word out. With HDTV, all you had to do was go into a store and see for yourself...plus the "Available in HD" graphic began popping up everywhere. None of this happened with HD Radio. How many times have you seen someone go into a store and ask to see and hear HD Radio? How many stores even sell it? Can't tell you how many times I've been to a Best Buy similar establishment and the sales clerk working in home theatre, TV and Radio department didn't even know what HD Radio was. That said a lot to me. It's too bad. HD Radipo is not the greatest thing that ever happened to radio IMHO, but it is an important step in radio broadcasting. It makes radio sound far better than it ever has. It would be a shame if it ended up dying a slow death.

 

[KB1OKL]

Frankly, the only thing wrong with AM radio now is the same thing that's always been wrong with it, and that is the fact that it is AM. AM radio is lower fidlelity, especially for music, and what HD radio does is improve that fidelity so it sounds like FM.

Absolute BS, AM IBOC sounds nothing like analog FM, analog FM is far superior and so is wideband analog AM. I find AM HD so saccharine sounding and fatiguing from artifacts that I can't listen to it even if it comes in for more than 10 seconds without dropping out. AM can sound great, all they have to do is open it up again. IBOC transmitters close the frequency response to tops 4 Khz for analog listeners so they THINK analog sounds bad, AM can easily go to 15 Khz like it used to, when I was a kid one of the best sounds around was an old console radio tuned to a good wide band AM station.

 

[davalvideo]

You don't need to use terms like "absolute BS" in your posts, you know. What I gave is my personal opinion, which you have every right to disagree with. To me, HD AM does sound a lot like FM....at least on my car radio, which is what I listen on. To you it may sound totally different, which is fine. We're all offering our own contribution on this thread, so let's all be civil in our responses. thanks so much.

 

[N1WVQ]

I've only been in radio in the NRSC era (forgot which NRSC but it's the one that limits audio to 10kc.) but my understanding is that A.M.s used to go out to 20kc., so it doesn't have to be low-fidelity. A.M. IBOC creates massive QRM & needs to be done away with. A.M. stereo wasn't given a chance to flourish because of F.C.C. indecision & Leonard Kahn's lawsuits (he created the ISB system which didn't have much frequency response about 6kc).

 

[KB1OKL]

You don't need to use terms like "absolute BS" in your posts, you know. What I gave is my personal opinion, which you have every right to disagree with. To me, HD AM does sound a lot like FM....at least on my car radio, which is what I listen on. To you it may sound totally different, which is fine. We're all offering our own contribution on this thread, so let's all be civil in our responses. thanks so much.

I apologize davalvideo, my opinion is that equating AM IBOC with analog FM is horsepucky and is one of ibiquity's MANY talking points which we all KNOW are horsepucky.

 

[jlehmann]

While I admire your efforts, your audience is dying off and it's not being replaced.

I think JIBGUY and WLYNGM are not facing the realities of the future of AM.

#1 above: Untrue. Didn't you read my post? I see absolutely no sign of an audience decrease at either of my stations.
#2 above: We are well aware of the situation with AM radio with all its flaws and new forms of interference. But if someone programs something different, the audience will be there. Always! - Programming trumps the negatives of old technology.

I actually saw WJIB bumper stickers on cars 2 days in a row last week! I couldn't tell how old the people driving were, but they didn't appear to be 80 year old grandmas just barely able to see over the wheel.

 

[aaronread]

But if someone programs something different, the audience will be there. Always! - Programming trumps the negatives of old technology.

I wouldn't quite say "always". http://www.current.org/tech/tech1014-expansion-and-AM.shtml

In Columbus, Ohio, WOSU is moving its full-time news service to 89.7 FM after its all-news AM station failed to attract pubradio listeners.
(snip)
The AM station, which launched Ohio State’s broadcast service in 1922, will simulcast the FM news service.

Decisions about audience service priorities have never been easy for public radio stations that broadcast both news and music programming, but they’re especially confounding for those with AM stations. AM’s low audio fidelity and interference problems make the frequencies more suitable for news/talk than music, but listeners’ habits of scanning the left end of the FM dial for public radio are so deeply ingrained that building a loyal audience on AM would be a Sisyphean labor.

 

[Don Juannn]

WJIB is listener supported. Bob has chosen not to air commercials, he does on-air fund drives like non-commercial stations do. I'm sure that if his audience was decreasing, he would know it because it would be reflected in his donation totals.

Hi eli,

But the totals aren't public and verifiable by a 3rd party...like ratings.

WLYN is brokered. Brokered stations air unique (mostly ethnic) programming that is not aired on the major stations, and generally not on commercial FM stations. Niche/ethnic audiences may be relatively small, but they're not going away.

They are if they never flip to AM, don't know what's there...or worse yet, don't even know it exists.

AM is certainly no longer in the heyday that it was 40 years ago, but it's not dying yet. Every one of the top ten Arbitron markets in the US still has at least one AM station in its 12+ top ten.

Yes, every market seems to have a few blowtorch 50KW signals that can stay above water with news, sports or talk formats. Thats the only way AM is making it...with a blowtorch signal...and a format not avilable elsewhere on FM. The rest are virtually unknown to the populous. (And with those formats moving to FM...like WTOP...it puts AM in a vulnerable position if they lose the formats that made it viable.) Add to that the demographic problem...and the future doesn't look too bright.

I don't know why you're so eager to sound the premature death knell for AM.

I'm not! I am just trying to instill some reality to the discussion that the future of AM is bright.

I would love to see every AM station in the Boston area with a viable format that would pull in listeners.

 

[Don Juannn]

Absolute BS, AM IBOC sounds nothing like analog FM..

How would you know...you say you don't listen to HD AM...and complain that you can't even get a lock at your location outside Worcester.

For someone who has barely any experience with it........you have an awful LOT of opinions. ;-)

I apologize davalvideo, my opinion is that equating AM IBOC with analog FM is horsepucky and is one of ibiquity's MANY talking points which we all KNOW are horsepucky.

This is typical of HD Haterz...name calling...and no room for anyone else's opinions.

 

[mdovell]

Any analog signal CAN sound great...note the word can. With all the other potential interference it makes it harder and harder to get a decent signal compared with decades ago. AM in a car can easily turn horrible with the only recourse being changing out the sparkplugs (and who honestly is going to do that). High powered am can come in good...at night. During the day unless it's a local I think reception can be iffy...and even in being locals what if someone is driving..Outside of major stations I'm largely assured a better FM signal than am.

the actual text on hd is pretty important. If you don't have text that means you can't sell the music as well.

hd will do well on fm..am depends. Most am I see these days is talk and it isn't that hard to put talk on fm. I can't find that much for music on am.. If you really want to hear a difference listen to hd kick on a fm classical station...or a football game.

How can radio capture a younger crowd without at least having a text screen? wifi radio's are dropping in price so the industry pretty much has to do this to compete. RDS was interesting but it's extremely iffy the bandwidth is too low.

 

[spt87]

The situation on the AM band is not all that much different than it ever was. The blow torch stations and regional stations with good signals do well, some of the lower powered stations are well run, have a good niche and make some money. The remainder are train wrecks with frequent format changes and employees wondering if their check will bounce. Maybe the biggest difference now is that those blowtorches had to specialize and share their audience with FM and and automation helped the smaller stations stay viable.

If you really want to "fix" AM - start with FCC receiver standards. Everyone wants the free market to rule, but the Feds. tilted the field toward FM so now they owe AM the same favor. First, eliminate the AM/FM switch - mandate that digital tuners continously tune from 530KHz to 108 MHz. Ends of problem of people not "sampling" AM as when they hit scan it will find it. Next, mandate any radio with FM Analog Stereo must include AM Analog Stereo with NRSC standard response and pre-emphasis. This doesn't even add cost now - just a little extra code on the DSP chip. Also mandate any FMHD tuner must support AMHD. Stations can run either format using the old AM stereo exciter sitting in the closet or the shiny new HD exciter. Lastly, the FCC needs to acknowledge the laws of physics and take advantage of abandoned AM licenses to reduce station count and increase protection between stations. They need to enforce the expanded band deal where stations moving to the expanded band had to turn in their old license.

 

[mdovell]

"First, eliminate the AM/FM switch - mandate that digital tuners continously tune from 530KHz to 108 MHz"

That would be interesting but of course that would also mean nearly everyone would get shortwave stations as well (figure around 5mhz to 30mhz).

You have to wonder though how the public might take accidentally hearing transmissions from cuba, iran or north korea..or a whole ton of different languages. It doesn't bother me in the slightest but some might...Heck some complain about the number of Spanish stations on tv enough though some are over the air and cable companies kinda have to carry them.

Personally I think if the FCC would just tend to relax things say more at night, expand a bit of the band on fm it might make for something interesting.

Then again I know of a pirate that moved to where the tv channel 6 was..I figured it's a pirate so that means low budget and low key..probably one or just a few people...nope.. they have commercials, events, staff, talk shows..what the...
their site is here http://hot97boston.com maybe they have deep pockets to pay the fines..

 

[Eli Polonsky]

"First, eliminate the AM/FM switch - mandate that digital tuners continously tune from 530KHz to 108 MHz"

That would be interesting but of course that would also mean nearly everyone would get shortwave stations as well (figure around 5mhz to 30mhz).

A tuner could be manufactured that would be programmed to tune continuously from the AM to FM broadcast band without receiving any frequencies in between, similar to programmable police scanners that are programmed to consecutively tune from one band to another, but don't receive certain cellular phone and other frequencies within the bands it receives that are illegal for the general public to hear, or certain ranges that are just noise created by television transmissions, etc...

It could even be programmed to switch from amplitude to frequency modulation reception and back when leaving one band and entering the other. Of course, it wouldn't be truly continuous tuning as in an analog radio, as a digital tuner it would have to tune in increments. It could be switchable between standard Western and Eastern AM and FM frequency allotments, or it could have very small increments tuning fractions of frequencies that would include both allotments, but the latter would be inconvenient for people who want to tune through the dial quickly.

 

[spt87]

Most of the new radios are DSP based so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to filter out unwanted frequencies and switch between the modulation types. Put an exemption in the rule for non-DSP radios (like walkmans) if necessary. This rule would still a lot of new radios going out - car radios etc.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it - I'm not an EE and never designed a radio. As pointed out police scanners have done a similar thing for decades so even with traditional technology it is possible.

One thing we do at least see now is the preset buttons on car radios not being tied to the band switch (at least on GM cars). I can push the presets and it flips to whatever band is programmed on that button - AM, FM or even XM.

 

[Smoke]

Why wasn't a portion of the old TV band used to create an expanded FM, that AM licensees could have moved to? That would have leveled the playing field and even allowed more stations on the air.