WRTI Gets Consultants; Classical and Jazz Formats To Be Modified

[haldouglas]

I'm hearing Classical will become "Chicken Classical" (familiar music to those who aren't serious Classical fans), and Jazz will become "Top Jazz" (all the big tunes everyone knows in standard rotations)...

Ratings are in the trash, so maybe it'll help. But "Philly" and "consultants" usually aren't successful combos...

 

[nd2023]

Or better yet, why not give it to the students of Temple University and bring http://www.temple.edu/whip/ on the air? The majority of today's college students don't like classical and jazz, that's for sure.

And ditch the HD, no one's listening to it! At least put WHIP on the HD2 or HD3

 

[uncamark]

Or better yet, why not give it to the students of Temple University and bring http://www.temple.edu/whip/ on the air? The majority of today's college students don't like classical and jazz, that's for sure.

And ditch the HD, no one's listening to it! At least put WHIP on the HD2 or HD3

Than how many classical and jazz stations will there be in Philadelphia? Does Temple program WRTI for students or for the general public, including those who are still angry about WFLN going off the air and WHYY dropping music? Do the majority of students even listen to WHIP? And why should Temple take off a professionally-run radio station for a festival of music the public does not want to hear, miscues, dead air, fluctuating levels and mumbling DJs?

 

[nd2023]

The original purpose of college radio is a training ground for students. I believe college stations should be student run, with guidance from professionals. They've always been run as a loss leader, not expecting to generate enough revenue to cover expenses.

Most student run college stations are actually nice to listen to. The students play music that isn't heard on commercial radio.

I'm sure more students listen to WHIP than WRTI. Why should a college station need to simulcast on stations far away from the college?

 

[MoldaMania182]

The original purpose of college radio is a training ground for students. I believe college stations should be student run, with guidance from professionals. They've always been run as a loss leader, not expecting to generate enough revenue to cover expenses.

Most student run college stations are actually nice to listen to. The students play music that isn't heard on commercial radio.

I'm sure more students listen to WHIP than WRTI. Why should a college station need to simulcast on stations far away from the college?

There are pros and cons to both. The obvious is today's generation isn't nearly as interested in radio as those before them, meaning Gen Y is pretty content podcasting and using internet radio and knowing people 'worldwide' can be listening rather than traditional FM. They know their friends can stream them on their iPhones walking to class.
Having said that I know there are still some who want that real feel FM broadcast experience. The problem is schools don't give the stations or the students nearly enough attention as they used. What seems to be happening is a growing divide, IMO, perhaps unsurprisingly, between colleges with big stations (Class B - WRTI, WXPN, WFUV, WVKR for examples) vs colleges with glorified translators. The big guys can garner community/public support and put out a professional product for the most part. The others, like locally WXVU (Villanova) well, they are on the air at least?

With so many digital options for students to grow and learn, I'd rather not see someone like WRTI become a slop sink.

 

[nd2023]

I just think WRTI in its current form should never have existed. It should have stayed with the students since it started. Look at WPRB as an example, it stayed with the students of Princeton despite being a Class B in the commercial band. They could easily have sold it to a commercial broadcaster.

 

[uncamark]

I just think WRTI in its current form should never have existed. It should have stayed with the students since it started. Look at WPRB as an example, it stayed with the students of Princeton despite being a Class B in the commercial band. They could easily have sold it to a commercial broadcaster.

Not if the station's below 92 on the FM band, because that is reserved for non-commercial use. Do you know anything about broadcasting or, like most college radio kids, do you really want to be in a rock band or run a record company instead?

And you still haven't answered my question--do the majority of Temple students listen to WHIP (AT ALL--NOT compared to WRTI)? Has WHIP ever tried to do audience research to find out what students want to hear or is it just a bunch of mumbling DJs exercising their out-of-their-mainstream tastes?

And in case you haven't noticed, classical and jazz aren't played on commercial radio very much these days, unless you consider "smooth jazz" jazz--and purists don't.

 

[MoldaMania182]

I just think WRTI in its current form should never have existed.

I'm sorry but we certainly agree to disagree here. Then again I wouldn't expect someone who enjoys sped up Top 40 on WXRK to appreciate a classical music station. WRTI is a wonderful station for the Philadelphia market, and certainly better than a giddy 19 year old with an indie record 5 people actually care about. Besides Philly as WXPN anyway.

 

[Slinky]

I just think WRTI in its current form should never have existed. It should have stayed with the students since it started. Look at WPRB as an example, it stayed with the students of Princeton despite being a Class B in the commercial band. They could easily have sold it to a commercial broadcaster.

Not if the station's below 92 on the FM band, because that is reserved for non-commercial use.

Nick was referring to WPRB, not WRTI.

 

[nd2023]

I admit it, classical and jazz aren't my cup of tea. In fact there are a couple classical stations I hate (WWFM 89.1 because its IBUZ splatters on Z88.9, and Fine Arts Radio in Connecticut because it has a useless translator on 105.3 that wipes out a good Party 105 signal in the area). But that's another story.

I hate seeing college stations taken away from the students like what happened recently in Rhode Island and Houston. In my opinion a station licensed to a university should involve the university's students first and foremost.

According to WHIP's website, they even sell advertising for $100 for 42 spots a week, and claim a potential audience of over 40,000. I guess WRTI is what it is, and probably will never go to the students. But at least the HD3 could simulcast WHIP for the few people that have HD radios.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

WRTI has found an important niche serving an underserved group of listeners in Eastern PA, Southern NJ, and Delaware. That is why they have so many translators, repeaters, etc, around the Delaware Valley. They are the ONLY station serving that vast area of Metro Philly, Lancaster, York, Harrisburg, Wilmington, Dover, Trenton, Atlantic City that plays Classical Music and Jazz. The station is listener supported. So folks pony up their own money to get to hear that music. Apparently Temple has a second station that is geared for the college listener, so I don't get Nick's complaint, other than maybe he thinks all those cities in the Tri-State region are going to want to hear a bunch of college kids play at being a disc jockey playing music they don't want to hear. I don't think that would be workable. WRTI is so successful, because they are meeting a real need of two types of music listeners that no one else is bothering with in that large Tri-State region.

As far as what WRTI plays. I must admit, that sometimes I'm surprised at what I'm hearing. During the work day some of the classical music is so quiet, bland, and laid back, I have to change stations or I'll start to fall asleep. That doesn't mean they should only play the loud 1812 overture type piece, but most are listening at work and solid melody rather than those "modern exotic" non-tonal probably are not the best choice. Maybe on the weekend with a special show. Some pieces picked get so low volume wise and then they get really loud, in an office environment you may be trying to listen to WRTI at your desk and not disturb those others who are listening to something else. So you end up turning up the volume so you can hear than quickly having to rush to the radio to turn it down when those loud parts come. That might be part of why they've lost some listeners. Frankly, I've started going online while at work and finding Classical Music without those issues. I still do check out WRTI at 107.7 and listen to, when the music is workable for me.

Same with Jazz at night. One minute you'll hear Count Basie swingin' away with his big band and then some non-tonal sax player who to my ear is simply "honking" as what he's playing doesn't fit the chords and rhythm of the music and is not pleasing to my ear meaning it's time to pop in a Jazz CD or if home go online for some Jazz. So again, maybe block programming within the Jazz realm might help. An hour of the more melodic jazz and a different hout with the non-tonal jazz. During the dinner hours (6pm-8pm why not play the Oscar Peterson, mellower dining/dancing jazz while folks are eating, unwinding from their day. Then at 8pm kick it up.

WRTI is an important station to the entire Tri-State area as its trying to appeal to all sorts of Classical Music lovers, and all sorts of Jazz music lovers. Just as with Rock music, there are more than one type of Rock, there is more than one type of Jazz and more than one type of Classical Music. So maybe some block formating within those genres of Classical and Jazz might be helpful.

 

[Steve_Green]

The last time consultants got hold of WRTI was indirectly. That was when WFLN became the new, hot, wing-tipped Mix station that was supposed to 'dominate the 18-49 market'. We saw how happy that made everyone. They didn't even dominate the 18-19 market.

WRTI assumed the Classical load ... 1997? Was it that far back? That made the surviving listeners of each formet even less happy. Classical wound up getting both AM and PM drive times. A bunch of specialty R&B shows that really counted and added some oh-wow spice got dumped like burned books.

On an under-the-counter job up this way, via WRTI's 99.1 translator in Pottsville, I heard a lot of familiar tunes during a recent pledge drive. I fear I may have been hearing the results of what's fated to be a permanent Auditorium Test Weekend. I'm no big Classical Music fan, but it's safe to say that if the new geniuses are going to be offering a WOGL-type playlist for Classical followers, they're cutting their own throats.

Jazz is another story altogether. I thoroughly like Jazz and always have. Like Classical, it is pure music -- very few vocals. No crutches; no video sneers or pouts; no language. But if these 2011 Bill Drake wannabees are coming in with the sole intent on cutting back and compacting ninety years of American music into two CDs in order for their existence to look good on the next quarterly report, terrestrial radio has lost another listener and another proponent. Don't these cementheads ever learn?

 

[uncamark]

On an under-the-counter job up this way, via WRTI's 99.1 translator in Pottsville, I heard a lot of familiar tunes during a recent pledge drive. I fear I may have been hearing the results of what's fated to be a permanent Auditorium Test Weekend. I'm no big Classical Music fan, but it's safe to say that if the new geniuses are going to be offering a WOGL-type playlist for Classical followers, they're cutting their own throats.

Jazz is another story altogether. I thoroughly like Jazz and always have. Like Classical, it is pure music -- very few vocals. No crutches; no video sneers or pouts; no language. But if these 2011 Bill Drake wannabees are coming in with the sole intent on cutting back and compacting ninety years of American music into two CDs in order for their existence to look good on the next quarterly report, terrestrial radio has lost another listener and another proponent. Don't these cementheads ever learn?

It's the old Actives vs. Passives thing again that I brought up on another thread. Not even non-comm music formats are safe havens for Actives anymore. With the hardcore classical and jazz audience aging and dying, classical programmers are doing what has proven to be successful elsewhere--high-class background music for now-middle-aged yuppies to have on in the
background at work or in a store or restaurant. The purists hate it, but it’s kept the classical format alive in almost every city (and besides, there is very little crossover in tastes between the classical radio, classical recordings and classical live performances audiences).

As for jazz, what I suspect will happen at WRTI is that they will refocus the programming on making mainstream jazz accessible to the prime public radio news listener who shares their time listening with a AAA like XPN or a “smooth jazz” station if there’s one in the market and not with classical or jazz formats. Most likely, the playlists for the evening programming will be focused on ballads, soul jazz and vocals (and vocalists dominate the Billboard mainstream jazz chart, even if they include artists like Michael Buble and Norah Jones that jazz purists find suspect) and will avoid “smooth jazz,” but still attempt to appeal to the jazz novice who doesn’t want to hear double-time bebop or atonal squawking. It’s arguable whether this formula works consistently (WBEZ in Chicago tried this for over a decade with their evening programming and still dropped jazz in 2007 for full-time news/talk), but this is still considered the only way to get jazz to appeal to a 35-54 audience (not 18-34—please note).

Meanwhile, the Actives who dominate this forum need to understand that when it comes to *all* music formats, there are now more Passives than Actives in any format—and they will *always* win, not the Actives. Deal with it.

 

[Dancerev889]

Temples WHIP is an internet station. As a alumni of Temple, and of WRTI I think its a shame that they do not allow more communications majors work at the station. There are very few or any that do. Temple is considered a great communications school and they this wonderful tool that could teach students the business except they dont allow them too. The worst is when I get a letter from the school to help fund WRTI. I loved my opportunity working there but I think its a shame they dont embrace the students more

 

[Steve_Green]

@ and re Mark Jeffries:

>> 'the Actives who dominate this forum need to understand that when it comes to *all* music formats, there are now more Passives than Actives in any format—and they will *always* win, not the Actives. Deal with it.. <<

Lol and point taken, Mark. But as an 'active' myself, I see both of these formats, at least in Philadelphia at any rate, being hauled away, whimpering, in buses just the way Standards got compacted into 300 songs* (despite over 35 years of music) and shown the city limits, to be played on stingy AM directional signals until the euthanasia was complete.

My principle gripe is 'less music'. And on the FM dial, for crying out loud. So I suppose I am dealing with it. The weather hasn't stopped my complaining yet.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


* 'In The Mood', plus 299 other songs that make us nervous'. That's a quote from an accredited consultant who recently returned to the scene of his earlier mediocrities

 

[MikefromDelaware]

With the hardcore classical and jazz audience aging and dying, classical programmers are doing what has proven to be successful elsewhere--high-class background music for now-middle-aged yuppies to have on in the
background at work or in a store or restaurant. The purists hate it, but it’s kept the classical format alive in almost every city (and besides, there is very little crossover in tastes between the classical radio, classical recordings and classical live performances audiences).

Even with the Classical live performances group, the audience prefers hearing music they know. I seem to remember reading about the Philly Orch. having that sort of problem with their subscription customers, who'd complain when the Orchestra would perform some modern non-tonal piece. I believe the Delaware Symphony too, sells less tickets when they program is not of familiar music, or is the real modern non-tonal music. Most people, be they classical music lovers, Big Band, Swing, Jazz, Rock, Country, Hymns in Church, Praise Music in Church, etc, etc, all prefer to hear, attend a concert, or sing along with, worship with, etc, with music they know and are comfortable with. So when a station starts playing too much unknown or non-tonal music in an attempt to "educate" the audience, they lose them, be that Jazz or Classical, but that also applies to Oldies stations. So maybe WRTI in an effort to please those folks who like that odder form or jazz and classical music could offer a special program on the weekends for both forms of non-popular Classical and Jazz.

 

[musichead1029]

I know we're saying this often, but it bears repeating: terrestrial radio is a lowest-common-denominator medium. It will dumb down its programming to serve the maximum quantity of listeners in the target demographic. Sadly, this applies to noncomms too when fundraising doesn't meet expenses.

Internet and cell-based distribution will have to be employed by more discriminating listeners to receive the depth they require and desire.

 

[flashback]

is the station involved a collage station?

isn`t the purpose of a collage station to train students in radio?not draw ratings?

has the ratings aspect gotten more important then the training of the students?

 

[uncamark]

is the station involved a collage station?

isn`t the purpose of a collage station to train students in radio?not draw ratings?

has the ratings aspect gotten more important then the training of the students?

I never heard of a "collage" station. I have heard of *college* stations, but there are many instances where colleges own professional radio stations that are designed to serve the community and not be an outlet for students who will not go to radio, but into rock bands and record companies. So-called "free form" college stations are not training broadcasters, they're training rock musicians and record company A&R people.

WRTI's June PPM 6+ ratings are 0.8 and holding. This is somewhat below what most classical stations pull in other cities, whether commercial or non-com (and it could be argued that the nighttime jazz programming could be a factor in the lower numbers). If their audience is dying off, they may not be getting the pledge money they used to get. In addition, traditional public radio music formats audiences are notorious for being tight-fisted because of either negative response to any little change (which will make them refuse to give any more) or the deluded belief that public broadcasting should be government funded (which will not happen in this country in my lifetime). Under the circumstances, they may have to make programming adjustments (and a radio station that sounds exactly the same for decades is a dull radio station, in my opinion).

As for ratings being used as a guide to programming (but *not* the only guide), to paraphrase the much-maligned public radio programming consultant David Giovannnini, wonderful programming doesn't mean a thing if nobody's listening to it.

 

[DG02816]

Sad to see such dumbing down, but again, even for the non-coms, it's all about the Benjamins. Another sad commentary on the dumbed-down public is when I see folks who post to this board and others, and it's grammar be damned! Trying to correct someone once, I was told that these boards aren't a spelling bee! Talk about pathetic....