WTAE-AM vs. KDKA-AM Back in the Day

[FreddyE1977]

TAE (CAE) could have had 50kw in the late forties but chose not to. After all, TV would soon decimate radio. Anyway, they decided to stay at 1250 rather than move to 1220.

Another ``what if'' involves KQV and the 1080 facility of WEEP.

Imagine if KQV's 5 kW signal at 1410 could have moved to the potent 50 kW facility *AND* the night CP for 1080 were actually built. I seem to recall it was for 10 kW with a pattern much like the day directional.

They were going to move it to 1070 and license it to Mt. Oliver.

Other "what ifs". WPSL, WEDO, WBUT, and WJAS, each with 50KW and each mgr. saying no to the idea.

We think that the short-sighted bottom feeders running stations today are something new.

Reminds me of that great WKRP episode where Johnny and Venus are at the transmitter with a bomb in the
shack, and Johnny has broken the phone. Carlson wants to call them using the STL line instead.

Andy: We can't do that, it only works one way.
Carlson: Well, that's stupid! Who made that decision?
Andy: You did, because it was cheaper!

Bet all the WWNL employees are glad to not have to park their cars in
Mt. Oliver today.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Other "what ifs". WPSL, WEDO, WBUT, and WJAS, each with 50KW and each mgr. saying no to the idea.

The thread has drifted from the WTAE vs. KDKA topic...but it had meandered into interesting territory.

When the FCC was doling out frequency and power assignments, Pittsburgh was then the sixth largest market. How did it get such anemic allotments? Much smaller metros (think Nashville and Cincinnati) had two 50 kW facilities by the early 40's. And, given the poor ground conductivity of the region, the stations were clustered toward the high end of the dial.

Post NARBA, the lineup was:

KDKA/1020
WCAE/1250
WJAS/1320
KQV/1410
WWSW/1490

Was there perhaps encouragement from Westinghouse to maintain a status quo favorable to their flagship facility?

 

[secondchoice]

Politics aside Nashville had two insurance companies with lots of $$ that wanted a “big” station. Some of Tennessee’s first radio stations WNOX the old 990AM Knoxville and WHUB Cookeville 1400 could have had much better facilities but both lacked the $$ and or foresight.

The same thing happen in Atlanta with FM allocations. The Atlanta market owners in the late 50’s and early 60’s did all they could to stop any serious AM or FM challenges. Of course some of these allocations later came in as 80-90 move ins but with Chattanooga, Birmingham, and Macon near by full C or C0’s are rare in Atlanta.

 

[hypwr]

Other "what ifs". WPSL, WEDO, WBUT, and WJAS, each with 50KW and each mgr. saying no to the idea.

The thread has drifted from the WTAE vs. KDKA topic...but it had meandered into interesting territory.

When the FCC was doling out frequency and power assignments, Pittsburgh was then the sixth largest market. How did it get such anemic allotments? Much smaller metros (think Nashville and Cincinnati) had two 50 kW facilities by the early 40's. And, given the poor ground conductivity of the region, the stations were clustered toward the high end of the dial.

Post NARBA, the lineup was:

KDKA/1020
WCAE/1250
WJAS/1320
KQV/1410
WWSW/1490

Was there perhaps encouragement from Westinghouse to maintain a status quo favorable to their flagship facility?

The Mexican government agreed to allow a full-time 50kw on 1220 in Pittsburgh. But, again, the mgr. of WCAE told the CE, "5kw is enough power, besides, TV is coming soon and radio will be a thing of the past".
Therefore, 1220 went to Cleveland.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Sorry----messed up. What if WMCK retained 104.9 and WIXZ became an FM powerhouse with Dick Kemp? It would have rewritten Pittsburgh radio history because 13Q would have remained on 99.7 and there would have been an FM radio war. B94 probably would have flipped to sports in 1972 and the Cowsills would be bigger than Mama Cass.

 

[Pratte4Life]

I don't know, MsMusic. All-sports radio as we know it didn't really begin until 1987 when WFAN came on the dial in NYC, and the concensus back then was there was no way it would make it.

However, thought this is before my time, there certainly were radio stations that dealt heavily in sports back then. WWWE in Cleveland, KMOX in St. Louis, and yes, even in 1972 WTAE had the Steelers and Pitt contracts, Myron Cope providing commentary in the morning, and a host I know nothing about (was his name Tom Bender?) hosting a sports talk show in the evenings (Cope became a talk show host on the station in 1973).

They also had something called "The Musical Scoreboard," hosted by Bill Hillgrove, in the '60s in evenings where Hillgrove would give scores between records. I'm not sure if the show was around in 1972 but the point is while not 24/7 all-sports, stations such as WTAE were certainly trying to capitalize on sports.

The Pittsburgh Maulers used to say they were the first team to ever have an FM flagship (WAMO) in 1984, so maybe a format with lots of sports could have come to FM in Pittsburgh in the scenario you provide.

 

[Boss Radio]

The five-minute sportscasts were always around. Pie Traynor did them on KQV in the '50s through about 1967. Tom Bender used to do a five minute summary daily at 4:30 (Sportscope) in the middle of Clark Race's show. Bender also did a five minute summary on KDKA's news at 10 and 11 p.m. Joe Tucker did sports shows on WWSW in the '50s and '60s. Howard Cosell did a daily "Speaking on Sports" show for ABC that KQV ran in the '70s.

 

[Parttimer]

13Q wasn't simulcast because they wanted to put 13Q on FM, it was simulcast because WSHH wasn't ready to go. If I had to guess it was probably that they were waiting for the automation system to be delivered or something like that.

I distinctly remember reading in the paper a quote from the GM along the lines of "Don't worry, we're not keeping that on FM, we'll be putting some good music on there soon."

WSHH as an easy listening station was a powerhouse for a long time.

 

[Savage]

Seconding secondchoice: I was PD at WNOX 990 Knoxville 1978-1980. At the time it had a superb 10kw signal, DA-N with four towers. I could hear it when I went home to see my parents in Rochester, NY, before WNYR had their meltdown with Canada and moved from 680 daytime to 990 unlimited.

WNOX had done all the engineering ca. 1979 to go 50kw DA-2 with a six-tower broadside array located midway between K-Town and Oak Ridge (which didn't exist when NOX's 4-tower 10kw was built in 1940.) But Scripps-Howard instead decided to sell the station, and that was that.
The CP application was never filed.

 

[hypwr]

It is still possible for at least 2 Pittsburgh area stations to increase their power to 50kw. However, it would be almost impossible to recover the construction cost.

 

[COPANUT]

WTAE in the first half of the 90s was a great "news/talk" station. strong all news in morning drive, Lynn Cullen 9 to noon, "Uncle Dougie" noon to 3, Phil Muzic till 6 and sports talk after that (sometimes with Myron , sometimes not). It sounded like a talk station was supposed to sound. BYW...Doug Hoerth , to my mind, was the very best day to day talk show host I ever heard. funny and topical but at the same time the best interviewer in Pittsburgh and beyond. I wish he were still available to listen to today. a true blue "radio guy".

I seem to recall that Anne Devlin had the 4-6 shift, then Myron came on, and Phil Musick was 9-12, I could be wrong. Those were great times for local talk, IMHO.

As to the WTAE vs KDKA, I rarely listened to KD, only when the Pirates were on. Too many blowhards on that air. If it was a 5K watt station, who would listen. That has always been their advantage, Jack Bogut is on the radio somewhere in Pgh, but I have no idea where.

 

[COPANUT]

A few comments on Hoerth:

I grew up listening to him as my mother listened to him on his days on WTAE and later, WPTT. A bit cocky and edgy, yes. But he was an awesome interviewer, engaging talk show host, and fun to listen to as well. I was lucky to have met him during the end of his radio career. Unfortunately, it seems that as he got older he lost that zest he once had. I see the same thing with David Letterman who went from energetic, cutting edge, and cocky in the 1980s and early 1990s to now being old, tired, and not relating well to his audience or his comedic base. As for Hoerth, perhaps his age or the change of the times was the cause of his downfall, but he is a radio legend in Pittsburgh. I wish I could find him and buy him a beer and ask him about his radio career. It would be great to hear his stories. My question, if someone can answer this to the best of his or her knowledge, what years was he on air in Pittsburgh? I unfortunately don't remember him during his peak in the 1980s, but curious to know when he was at that peak stage.

Being self-employed, I'm either in my home office or on the road. During the hey-day of WTAE my radio was always tuned to that channel. Uncle Dougie was great, best of all was the interviews he did. On more than one occasion I went out and bought the book of the author he was interviewing. His interview with Allan King was a classic. I had to pull off the road laughing so hard when he interviewed Tom Poston and Tim Conway when they were in town doing The Odd Couple.

But in his latter years, he started to lose it. Too much Godfather, way too much.

Oh well, things change.

 

[FreddyE1977]

My favorite Hoerth moment was during his first stint at KDKA when he got into a discussion with a caller
about the old Adventuretime with Paul Shannon show on Channel 4. During that call Hoerth had said that
Paul Shannon had died. Before the end of the show, Shannon was on the line from Florida to tell him that
rumors of his demise were premature. (darn, that pesky clear-channel signal.....). Another time they were
talking favorite Christmas toys, and an older gentleman called in and talked about a set he had as a kid
in the 20's where you could melt down lead and cast your own toy soldiers! I always think of that one
everytime the Consumer Product Safety Commission recalls some toy over a mild defect. (hey, Ma, okay
if I play with my lead smelter?)

Though I rarely have anything good to say about KD-AM these days, it did dawn on me last evening while
sitting in the dark in the South Hills that they are the ONLY station on the dial, AM or FM, to offer ANY sort
of local news coverage past afternoon drive. Given the severity of the damage, it would have been nice
though if they had gone into Stormcenter coverage instead of having Mangino on there talking about stink
bugs. Someone needs to get word to management that TV and internet don't work when the power goes out,
and many of us rely on transistor radios for news updates. The People's Red Army could have invaded and
landed in Market Square, and if you were listening to any other station, you would have never known about it.

At least this time they did not have Dmitri on there dispensing bad advice.

 

[pman44]

Agree, I was listening in the dark last night to KD as well. It could have been better, but it could have been much worse. Thank goodness for KD.


And the Stink Bug info was useful.

 

[loeper]

Ann Devlin replaced Phil Muzic in the 3 to 6 spot on WTAE 1250 lineup...as I recall, her downfall on that show was when she game a caller who called himself "JT" an entire show to spout his views on race (which were real hard core) . after that she was gone in a matter of months. also, anybody remember Dougs "saturday shows"? they were very entertaining.

 

[Boss Radio]

Ann's downfall was her consistent inability to be remotely interesting. She was like the teacher who knew the subject matter but bored everyone to sleep with her presentation. She did the same thing on PCNC.

 

[hypwr]

My favorite Hoerth moment was during his first stint at KDKA when he got into a discussion with a caller
about the old Adventuretime with Paul Shannon show on Channel 4. During that call Hoerth had said that
Paul Shannon had died. Before the end of the show, Shannon was on the line from Florida to tell him that
rumors of his demise were premature. (darn, that pesky clear-channel signal.....). Another time they were
talking favorite Christmas toys, and an older gentleman called in and talked about a set he had as a kid
in the 20's where you could melt down lead and cast your own toy soldiers! I always think of that one
everytime the Consumer Product Safety Commission recalls some toy over a mild defect. (hey, Ma, okay
if I play with my lead smelter?)

Though I rarely have anything good to say about KD-AM these days, it did dawn on me last evening while
sitting in the dark in the South Hills that they are the ONLY station on the dial, AM or FM, to offer ANY sort
of local news coverage past afternoon drive. Given the severity of the damage, it would have been nice
though if they had gone into Stormcenter coverage instead of having Mangino on there talking about stink
bugs. Someone needs to get word to management that TV and internet don't work when the power goes out,
and many of us rely on transistor radios for news updates. The People's Red Army could have invaded and
landed in Market Square, and if you were listening to any other station, you would have never known about it.

At least this time they did not have Dmitri on there dispensing bad advice.

I remember the lead smelter set from A.C.Gilbert (American Flyer). It reminds me of a dart board I had during WWII that you placed on the floor and used a periscope to aim darts. At least 8 of them landed in my feet. I just pulled them out and continued playing. Today there would be law suits all over the place.

 

[FreddyE1977]

And the Stink Bug info was useful.

Stink Bugs must be topic A#1 on everyone's show prep list these days, just ahead of the new
judges on American Idol.