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WTAM and WKRK Bid For the Indians

People inside Oak Tree tell me that they expect an even bigger fight for the Browns rights. They are already gearing up for a Battle Royale with 92.3 at the end of the season.

Remember my first item when we first saw the Fan's logo? Look at the color scheme.
 
Having the Browns is good for bragging rights.... and an upstart FM sports station can use all it can get... but it's not the cume machine that baseball provides.
 
It may not help cume but it will make their ratings soar (see WGFX in Nashville, the Titans flagship)
 
The Indians are a cume builder, no question, for WTAM.

But the Browns are the big fish sports-wise in this town.

Oak Tree will definitely fight hard to keep the Browns on WMMS/WTAM.
 
SonoSational18 said:
Agreed, CC will be in the fight to keep the Browns, but I don't think they're going to pay "stupid" money.
Click to expand...

To keep the biggest ticket in town, there is no such thing as "stupid" money.

Both CC and CBS will go all out.

My early $0.02 says CC keeps the Browns. WMMS loses the Browns, and all the work they went through in the last decade to go from whoa-be-gone rock station to top teir mancave station goes down the drain.
 
johnbasalla said:
How does CC keep the Browns, but their station WMMS lose them?
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I shoulda been clearer...I picked CC to keep the Browns doing whatever they have to do, because losing the Browns would would severely hurt WMMS.

It was the Browns that was the cornerstone that led 100.7 to reinvent itself from a struggling rock station living off it's past glory, to renewed life as a successful rock/talk/sports hybrid "mancave" station.
 
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[/quote]

To keep the biggest ticket in town, there is no such thing as "stupid" money.

[/quote]

Having apparently lost out on getting the Indians, WKRK will have a much stronger incentive to "back up the Brinks truck" to grab a major sports PBP deal. Otherwise they're another 2-share station that will be competing with WKNR. It will not be in a league with WTAM (or any of the top FM's). Again, because we're only talking 16 games, once per week I think that there is a definite "ouch" point where CC will throw in the towel and figure it isn't worth it. My gut tells me that the Browns would rather stay with CC. My sources tell me there's a good relationship there, they have multiple demo-appropriate properties to cross-promote, they get most games on WTAM's blowtorcch signal, and they're a known quantity. But, if CBS throws enough dollars at the Browns they'll make the move. Right now I'd put my money on CC, but I woulddn't bet the house.
 
vjm said:
I shoulda been clearer...I picked CC to keep the Browns doing whatever they have to do, because losing the Browns would would severely hurt WMMS.

It was the Browns that was the cornerstone that led 100.7 to reinvent itself from a struggling rock station living off it's past glory, to renewed life as a successful rock/talk/sports hybrid "mancave" station.
Click to expand...


The Browns do not significantly contribute to overall Arbitron PPM. In June, the station's AQH 6+ was 4.4. In September, 4.9.

The station continues to identify itself as "Cleveland's Rock Station" and self reports to Arbitron as "Active Rock". While it is true that both AM and PM drive times are hot talk, nearly all programming on that station remains rock music. That WMMS is the flagship for the city's NFL team is not unusual. All four AFC North teams have FM rock flagships (WEBN/Cincinnati, 98 Rock/Baltimore, WDVE/Pittsburgh, in addition to "The Buzzard" here in Cleveland). 16 of all NFL teams (half the league) have FM rock flagship stations. Airing play-by-play for a team does not change a station's primary format. In the case of WMMS, the station airs a hot talk/active rock hybrid and happens to be the FM flagship for the Browns, just as WEBN is a rock station which happens to be the FM flagship for the Bengals.

If WMMS/WTAM/Clear Channel lose the Browns to WKRK-FM/CBS, that very well may change things. I would not be surprised if WMMS picks up some, but probably not all, Indians games. It's important to remember, too, that Alan Cox's contract is up in December.

That said, you can only dilute the rock music so much. As someone on these boards recently said, that station is and always has been at its heart a rock station. Business aspects aside, I think it would be truly sad if the station which led the effort to bring the Rock Hall here can no longer legitimately call itself a rock station when the 30th annual induction ceremony comes to Public Hall in 2015.
 
Levdr1lostpassword said:
vjm said:
I shoulda been clearer...I picked CC to keep the Browns doing whatever they have to do, because losing the Browns would would severely hurt WMMS.

It was the Browns that was the cornerstone that led 100.7 to reinvent itself from a struggling rock station living off it's past glory, to renewed life as a successful rock/talk/sports hybrid "mancave" station.
Click to expand...


The Browns do not significantly contribute to overall Arbitron PPM. In June, the station's AQH 6+ was 4.4. In September, 4.9.

The station continues to identify itself as "Cleveland's Rock Station" and self reports to Arbitron as "Active Rock". While it is true that both AM and PM drive times are hot talk, nearly all programming on that station remains rock music. That WMMS is the flagship for the city's NFL team is not unusual. All four AFC North teams have FM rock flagships (WEBN/Cincinnati, 98 Rock/Baltimore, WDVE/Pittsburgh, in addition to "The Buzzard" here in Cleveland). 16 of all NFL teams (half the league) have FM rock flagship stations. Airing play-by-play for a team does not change a station's primary format. In the case of WMMS, the station airs a hot talk/active rock hybrid and happens to be the FM flagship for the Browns, just as WEBN is a rock station which happens to be the FM flagship for the Bengals.

If WMMS/WTAM/Clear Channel lose the Browns to WKRK-FM/CBS, that very well may change things. I would not be surprised if WMMS picks up some, but probably not all, Indians games. It's important to remember, too, that Alan Cox's contract is up in December.

That said, you can only dilute the rock music so much. As someone on these boards recently said, that station is and always has been at its heart a rock station. Business aspects aside, I think it would be truly sad if the station which led the effort to bring the Rock Hall here can no longer legitimately call itself a rock station when the 30th annual induction ceremony comes to Public Hall in 2015.
Click to expand...

Nitpicking about technicalities aside, the Browns and WMMS have almost become synonymous with each other, and if 100.7 were to lose them, it would be almost like getting it's arm hacked off.

WMMS is a little different than the average bear when it comes to rock stations, as they made a concerted effort to integrate hot talk and sports (you gotta include sports as part of the deal with not only the Browns, but the Tribe as well, as 100.7 has been airing more and more Tribe games over the years).

Rock's always gonna be part of the fabric of WMMS (unless something completely drastic and unforeseen happens), but in recent years it has become more of an element of the station than the end-all be-all of what makes MMS MMS
 
To say WMMS and the Browns are synonymous overstates their relationship. Clearly there is an association between the two. Area radio listeners either think 100.7 FM or 1100 AM if/when searching for a Browns broadcast. That's about it.

WMMS has seemingly, as one might expect, reinforced its status as FM flagship of the team (subtle things on air and online), if for no other reason than WKRK-FM/92.3 will do everything it can to take away the play-by-play rights at the end of this 2012 season. But again, if WMMS loses the Browns, there is nothing in the overall public PPM data to support that it would amount to the station "getting it's arm hacked off". The station's true strengths are Rover, Alan Cox, and its history, deeply embedded within the city's cultural identity, as a rock station.

As for the Indians, WMMS serves as the backup to WTAM for scheduling conflicts. That's nothing new, and it says little about WMMS other than its relatively low importance in the Cleveland Clear Channel cluster during most, especially the first half, of the last decade. The only recent change in Indians programming is that the station aired four (4) Friday night baseball games during the course of the entire season; the Indians played every Friday in 2012. Nothing particularly notable. More like CC throwing a bone to the Dolans during the Indians play-by-play negotiations. Should the Browns move to WKRK-FM, Clear Channel might also look to those 4 games in 2012 to determine just what role WMMS (or maybe some other CC FM station?) should have for 2013 and beyond.
 
Levdr1lostpassword said:
To say WMMS and the Browns are synonymous overstates their relationship. Clearly there is an association between the two. Area radio listeners either think 100.7 FM or 1100 AM if/when searching for a Browns broadcast. That's about it.

WMMS has seemingly, as one might expect, reinforced its status as FM flagship of the team (subtle things on air and online), if for no other reason than WKRK-FM/92.3 will do everything it can to take away the play-by-play rights at the end of this 2012 season. But again, if WMMS loses the Browns, there is nothing in the overall public PPM data to support that it would amount to the station "getting it's arm hacked off". The station's true strengths are Rover, Alan Cox, and its history, deeply embedded within the city's cultural identity, as a rock station.

As for the Indians, WMMS serves as the backup to WTAM for scheduling conflicts. That's nothing new, and it says little about WMMS other than its relatively low importance in the Cleveland Clear Channel cluster during most, especially the first half, of the last decade. The only recent change in Indians programming is that the station aired four (4) Friday night baseball games during the course of the entire season; the Indians played every Friday in 2012. Nothing particularly notable. More like CC throwing a bone to the Dolans during the Indians play-by-play negotiations. Should the Browns move to WKRK-FM, Clear Channel might also look to those 4 games in 2012 to determine just what role WMMS (or maybe some other CC FM station?) should have for 2013 and beyond.
Click to expand...

This is the fundemental difference between us...

You're all about minutae and details, while I'm a big picture guy.

Losing the Browns would hurt WMMS, don't kid yourself. To be able to say you're the flagship station of the biggest ticket in town means something. You can talk to me about cume all day long, but as far as prestige (and more importantly $$) is concerned, any station would like to be able to remain an NFL flagship.

And it can't be argued that having the Browns is what got the ball rolling for WMMS to go from run of the mill rock station, to the hybrid rock/talk/sports (yes, sports--especially if they're getting cozier with the Tribe and assuming they keep the Browns) "guy's station".

I know you're not a fan of the term "mancave radio", but it's a quick and easy way to describe what WMMS is trying to do...be a station for male listeners by giving them some of everything they want--rock music, talk about hot chicks, and sports.
 
Facts are not minutiae (note the second "i"). They're facts.

WMMS wants the Browns for obvious reasons, and I have never denied that. And it ought to go without saying that the NFL is the most popular professional sport in the U.S. However, my point is that you are overstating the damage losing the Browns would do to WMMS. There are only 16 regular games each season, and the Browns haven't won a post season game in almost twenty years. From a "big picture" standpoint, the Browns simply do not account for that much content (quality or quantity). They're also expensive. WKRK-FM, as a sports station, gains much more than WMMS, a talk/rock station, loses if the Browns move. It's not a zero sum game, and this is reflected in the AQH numbers I cited (not "cume"). The great majority of listeners don't stop listening to Rover, Alan Cox, and Led Zeppelin in June because the Browns are off.

As for the Indians, the only change in the last decade occurred during the 2012 season when WMMS aired four Friday night games. That's it. Four more games in 2012 than in 2011, 2010, or any of the other previous nine seasons. To say WMMS is "getting cozier with the Tribe" also overstates any changes to station programming. Dropping Loveline and picking up Sixx Sense were each more significant than "Friday Night Baseball", if only in total hours of content. Remember, too, that those Friday night games weren't exclusive to WMMS; they were a simulcast of the WTAM feed.

There is reason to think Clear Channel will move some Indians coverage to WMMS (or another one of its other FMs) should the Browns move to WKRK-FM/CBS. "Friday Night Baseball" was a probably test for what CC might need come 2013 -- some kind of major sports play-by-play on FM, somewhere in its cluster, should the Browns move to 92.3. But until that day comes, if it ever does, there isn't any reason to think things have changed in recent years. There is nothing online (aside from casual talk on this message board), in print, or on air which says anything about Clear Channel's plans for WMMS re: the Indians.
 
Y'all are funny.

Keep quoting format names, heritage, Public PPM numbers etc.

Mean's nothing.

What does matter?

The big ole pile of cash made
During the broadcast of the game
during the pre game
during the post game
during the monday night shows
during the daily browns update
the digital ads
signage
ROS spots during the week
Tailgate parties
Internet only shows
 
Radio is a business. Moves are made to either cut costs or add revenue or both. Duh.

Thinking people on this board don't realize radio is all about money. Now, THAT'S funny! :)
 
John Baylor - Actually, stations often spend a "big ole pile of cash" to obtain NFL rights. Which do you think is more effective? A billboard for WGAR-FM on I-77, or a WGAR-FM radio spot during a Browns game timeout. The Browns are, among other things, a giant promoter for Clear Channel Cleveland properties.

Tim - thanks for the business lesson. I never had any idea what all those commercials were for.
 
Gotta spend $$ to make $$.

That's what I'm trying to say.

WMMS loses the Browns, and they're gonna hurt.

Both CC and CBS will spend a king's ransom to land the Browns to make 2 kings' ransom.

The nitpicking about how MMS identifies to Arbitron (and your adamant stance towards it) really misses the forest for the trees.

WMMS is building a brand as a destination for guys, and a lot of that comes from the Browns, thus they're gonna fight tooth and nail to keep it

The CC sales geeks are WAY more concerned about the loss of $$ should the Browns bolt than whatever AQH/PPM/cume (however much it is) gets affected.

And why would CC bother putting non conflict Tribe games on WMMS if they weren't testing the waters for a further relationship?

The whole hub-bub about "WMMS identifies as rock, so don't say they're a mancave station or adding sports because that's not how Arbitron lists them" really is silly when you get to the nuts and bolts of it.

Take a step back and look what they're building around...Rover, Cox, and the Browns.

They're trying to integrate the Indians more into the mix, and will fight to the death to keep the Browns.

I never said and never will say that rock isn't a cog of the MMS machine, but the minutiae of how to "officially" classify the station really is missing the big picture.

They've found a winning formula of mixing rock, talk, and sports, and they don't want anything gumming up the works of what they built.

Thus if they can at all help it, the Browns ain't going anywhere.
 
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