WTAM and WKRK Bid For the Indians

[Levdr1lostpassword]

"... it ought to go without saying that the NFL is the most popular professional sport in the U.S." Those are my words. Obviously WMMS, WTAM, and Clear Channel Cleveland have an interest in retaining Browns play-by-play, and I've never said otherwise. My point is that you (vjm) are overstating the damage to WMMS should the Browns move. You would've been correct ten years ago. Even as late as 2007 when WMMS actually was positioning itself as the talk/rock/sports/meathead mix (Doesn't anyone else remember the "100.7" days before Clear Channel lucked out and snatched Rover from K-Rock? Doesn't the term "de-emphasized" mean anything to anyone?).

Two key developments have stopped the WMMS march toward meathead radio. First, Maxwell. He defied management and pushed through a talk show in a time slot traditionally devoted to music, on a station traditionally devoted to music. He also laid the foundation for Alan Cox. Same basic format, all talk. Second key development: WMMS signed Rover in 2008. One could, as you have, try to make the case that WMMS has drifted to sports. One could make a much more convincing case, however, that WMMS has drifted to a hybrid of talk and rock. More importantly, WMMS has enjoyed considerable success with the talk/rock hybrid, thus negating the need for a substitute format. Will the WMMS audience stop listening the Rover, Alan Cox, or (to a lesser extener) Led Zeppelin because the station no longer carries the Browns? I doubt it.

Flagship status for a sports team, by itself, doesn't change a station's format. WDOK was still soft rock when they had the Browns in the mid-90s. WMJI was still oldies when they had the Browns in the late 90s and early 2000s. WMMS is still a talk/rock hybrid when they have the Browns now. And yes, I know, the station carries Indians (or the Cavs) during scheduling conflicts in the late winter/early spring months. I suspect this has more to do with Clear Channel not wanting to put conflict games on its other FMs in the Cleveland cluster, rather than any real plan for the WMMS format.

The only way WMMS is different in 2012 than WMMS in 2011, or WMMS in 2010, 2009, or 2008, is that the station carried four (4) Friday night baseball games. When a professional team like the Indians plays 160 games in a season, 4 games doesn't mean very much in the "big picture".

 

[vjm]

"... it ought to go without saying that the NFL is the most popular professional sport in the U.S." Those are my words. Obviously WMMS, WTAM, and Clear Channel Cleveland have an interest in retaining Browns play-by-play, and I've never said otherwise. My point is that you (vjm) are overstating the damage to WMMS should the Browns move. You would've been correct ten years ago. Even as late as 2007 when WMMS actually was positioning itself as the talk/rock/sports/meathead mix (Doesn't anyone else remember the "100.7" days before Clear Channel lucked out and snatched Rover from K-Rock? Doesn't the term "de-emphasized" mean anything to anyone?).

Two key developments have stopped the WMMS march toward meathead radio. First, Maxwell. He defied management and pushed through a talk show in a time slot traditionally devoted to music, on a station traditionally devoted to music. He also laid the foundation for Alan Cox. Same basic format, all talk. Second key development: WMMS signed Rover in 2008. One could, as you have, try to make the case that WMMS has drifted to sports. One could make a much more convincing case, however, that WMMS has drifted to a hybrid of talk and rock. More importantly, WMMS has enjoyed considerable success with the talk/rock hybrid, thus negating the need for a substitute format. Will the WMMS audience stop listening the Rover, Alan Cox, or (to a lesser extener) Led Zeppelin because the station no longer carries the Browns? I doubt it.

Flagship status for a sports team, by itself, doesn't change a station's format. WDOK was still soft rock when they had the Browns in the mid-90s. WMJI was still oldies when they had the Browns in the late 90s and early 2000s. WMMS is still a talk/rock hybrid when they have the Browns now. And yes, I know, the station carries Indians (or the Cavs) during scheduling conflicts in the late winter/early spring months. I suspect this has more to do with Clear Channel not wanting to put conflict games on its other FMs in the Cleveland cluster, rather than any real plan for the WMMS format.

The only way WMMS is different in 2012 than WMMS in 2011, or WMMS in 2010, 2009, or 2008, is that the station carried four (4) Friday night baseball games. When a professional team like the Indians plays 160 games in a season, 4 games doesn't mean very much in the "big picture".

All the conflicted games go to WMMS because they fit in better with the mancave/meathead/pick your male based adjective motif...they don't look out of place over there like they would say on KISS FM 96.5.

And I never intimated that 100.7 would ever be a "sports station" in the vein of WKNR or 92.3 The Fan, but that sports coverage is a cog in the overall male-themed vibe.

Last year (IMO) WMMS was testing the waters to see if the Tribe would blend in on a more regular basis. And they do, then it can't be denied that sports plays a part in the overall WMMS big picture.

And when WDOK and WMJI had the Browns, the stations just basically did their usual thing...and oh, by the way we have the Browns.

MMS promotes the Browns as one of their featured attractions (along with Rover and Cox).

The only real difference in our stances are that you call it rock/talk, and I call it rock/talk/sports (that and you for some reason can't stand the term "mancave radio").

 

[Levdr1lostpassword]

"All the conflicted games go to WMMS because they fit in better with the mancave/meathead/pick your male based adjective motif...they don't look out of place over there like they would say on KISS FM 96.5."

Actually, conflict games began playing on WMMS because at the time (ten years ago), the station wasn't performing well. Clear Channel had to decide where to put conflict games, and WMMS was the most likely candidate because of its relatively weak performance compared to WAKS, WGAR-FM, WMJI, and WMVX. The term "dumping ground" comes to mind. Clear Channel moved the Browns to WMMS to prop up the station. Clear Channel moved conflicts games to WMMS because there was no other place to go.

"MMS promotes the Browns as one of their featured attractions (along with Rover and Cox)."

You just proved my point. Conflict games are not a featured attraction. Rover and Alan Cox are. The Browns are too, but their coverage is seasonal, and flagship status for a team does not change a station's format (WDOK was still soft rock, WMJI was still oldies, WEBN is still rock, WDVE is still rock, 98 Rock Baltimore is still rock, etc.)

You're also forgetting the featured attraction rock music. Don't you find it interesting that the station never uses the word "Sports" to describe its own programming? Even during Browns and conflict games, WMMS runs spots which typically mention 3 things: Rover, Alan Cox, and Rock music. Can't say I'm surprised, especially since the station heavily promotes itself as "Cleveland's Rock Station".

 

[vjm]

"All the conflicted games go to WMMS because they fit in better with the mancave/meathead/pick your male based adjective motif...they don't look out of place over there like they would say on KISS FM 96.5."

Actually, conflict games began playing on WMMS because at the time (ten years ago), the station wasn't performing well. Clear Channel had to decide where to put conflict games, and WMMS was the most likely candidate because of its relatively weak performance compared to WAKS, WGAR-FM, WMJI, and WMVX. The term "dumping ground" comes to mind. Clear Channel moved the Browns to WMMS to prop up the station. Clear Channel moved conflicts games to WMMS because there was no other place to go.

"MMS promotes the Browns as one of their featured attractions (along with Rover and Cox)."

You just proved my point. Conflict games are not a featured attraction. Rover and Alan Cox are. The Browns are too, but their coverage is seasonal, and flagship status for a team does not change a station's format (WDOK was still soft rock, WMJI was still oldies, WEBN is still rock, WDVE is still rock, 98 Rock Baltimore is still rock, etc.)

You're also forgetting the featured attraction rock music. Don't you find it interesting that the station never uses the word "Sports" to describe its own programming? Even during Browns and conflict games, WMMS runs spots which typically mention 3 things: Rover, Alan Cox, and Rock music. Can't say I'm surprised, especially since the station heavily promotes itself as "Cleveland's Rock Station".

You're so hung up on the technical aspects, that you don't see what's been happening.

10 years ago...MMS was a whoa-be-gone rock station twisting in the wind living on past glory. At the time, OK maybe the conflict games were put there just for gits and shiggles, and you're right about the Browns moving to MMS to prop it up. (WMJI--with Laningan and it's oldies/classic hits format--has been a ratings and revenue machine for years, and the Browns were just icing on the cake).

The Browns did perk MMS up a little bit, and then they found gold in Maxwell (later Alan Cox) doing talk in PMD, and then they signed Rover, bringing long overdue stability to AMD after a decade long merry-go-round.

I have never said that WMMS purposely tried to change gears or change formats, but it just kinda happened with all the stars lining up.

Don't get so hung up on labeling and official this and official that.

They don't promote sports, but they do have them, and it's become part of the station's fabric.

Adding up the sum of all it's parts, WMMS has over the past decade morphed from traditional rock station to a rock/talk/sports "mancave" station.

They stumbled on a winning formula and are gonna fight hard to keep all the pieces (such as the Browns, Cox when his contract is up, and Rover during his multiple contract soap operas) in place.

They are what they are, and arguing over labeling and official titles and techincalities really doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[Levdr1lostpassword]

They don't promote sports, but they do have them, and it's become part of the station's fabric.

In 2002, WMMS became the FM flagship for the Browns. The station also carried Indians and Cavaliers conflicts if/when necessary. With respect to sports, nothing changed until 2012, when WMMS aired 4 Friday night baseball games. Four non-conflict games out of more than 160 in a season, compared to zero non-conflict games from the previous ten seasons, does not constitute any significant change.

... WMMS has over the past decade morphed from traditional rock station...

Exactly. In 2002, WMMS aired a talk show in AM, rock the rest of the day, Browns during football season, and conflict games if/when necessary. By 2011, WMMS aired a talk show in AM, a talk show in PM, rock the rest of the day, Browns during football season, and conflict games if/when necessary. The only thing to change was the adoption of a hot talk during afternoon drive. The station had morphed from "traditional rock station" to talk/rock hybrid. Sports (mostly Browns and relatively few conflict games) remained unchanged. That is until 2012, when WMMS aired everything it aired in 2011 except for four Friday night baseball games. Again, four games broadcast in a whole year of broadcasting does not amount to very much. Certainly not "big picture".

 

[wjf82]

Getting back on subject, was it confirmed yet that WTAM is retaining the Indians' rights?

 

[CleveFan]

Various sources confirmed from the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram of WTAM and the Indians. I have not heard from the Tribe and 1100 themselves.

New question, could more games gradually move from 'TAM to one of its FM (especially WMMS) during the next five years?

 

[Levdr1lostpassword]

Various sources confirmed from the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram of WTAM and the Indians. I have not heard from the Tribe and 1100 themselves.

New question, could more games gradually move from 'TAM to one of its FM (especially WMMS) during the next five years?

If WKRK-FM acquires rights to the Browns, then a Clear Channel FM will likely pick up some, but not all, Indians games. That's a big "if" for WKRK-FM, however. Clear Channel clearly has CBS beat in terms of range and signal strength. 92.3 will only pick up the Browns if they throw considerable money to Haslam and co. Even that may not be enough.

 

[vjm]

Various sources confirmed from the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram of WTAM and the Indians. I have not heard from the Tribe and 1100 themselves.

New question, could more games gradually move from 'TAM to one of its FM (especially WMMS) during the next five years?

If WKRK-FM acquires rights to the Browns, then a Clear Channel FM will likely pick up some, but not all, Indians games. That's a big "if" for WKRK-FM, however. Clear Channel clearly has CBS beat in terms of range and signal strength. 92.3 will only pick up the Browns if they throw considerable money to Haslam and co. Even that may not be enough.

I think WMMS and the Tribe were clearly flirting with each other last year with the Friday simiulcast deal. There can easily be a scenario where most if not all weekend games could be simulcast on TAM and MMS, as well as the Buzzard airing any games bumped for the Cavs. That may have been in the cards regardless of the Browns.

And in a sign the Mayans may be right, I very much agree with Levdr1lostpasword, that CC is the favorite to retain the Browns. They have so much invested in keeping the Browns in the fold--as in WTAM having "all the balls", and WMMS keeping up their momentum.

And if 100.7 does run a decent slate of Tribe games next year along with keeping the Browns, then there can be no questioning the station's commitment to having sports as a cog in their mancave motif.

 

[Levdr1lostpassword]

I think WMMS and the Tribe were clearly flirting with each other last year with the Friday simiulcast deal. There can easily be a scenario where most if not all weekend games could be simulcast on TAM and MMS, as well as the Buzzard airing any games bumped for the Cavs. That may have been in the cards regardless of the Browns.

And in a sign the Mayans may be right, I very much agree with Levdr1lostpasword, that CC is the favorite to retain the Browns. They have so much invested in keeping the Browns in the fold--as in WTAM having "all the balls", and WMMS keeping up their momentum.

This all just sounds like more wishful thinking. If WMMS/WTAM/Clear Channel retains rights to the Browns, I don't expect WMMS or any other CC FM to pick up Indians games. If WKRK-FM/CBS wins rights to the Browns, I could see Clear Channel moving some -- but not all -- Indians games to one of its FMs. Keep in mind that this would largely be to offset the loss of bragging rights rather than any real drop in audience. WMMS "momentum" is the result of two strong year-round talk shows during AM and PM drives, not seasonal play-by-play.

 

[vjm]

I think WMMS and the Tribe were clearly flirting with each other last year with the Friday simiulcast deal. There can easily be a scenario where most if not all weekend games could be simulcast on TAM and MMS, as well as the Buzzard airing any games bumped for the Cavs. That may have been in the cards regardless of the Browns.

And in a sign the Mayans may be right, I very much agree with Levdr1lostpasword, that CC is the favorite to retain the Browns. They have so much invested in keeping the Browns in the fold--as in WTAM having "all the balls", and WMMS keeping up their momentum.

This all just sounds like more wishful thinking. If WMMS/WTAM/Clear Channel retains rights to the Browns, I don't expect WMMS or any other CC FM to pick up Indians games. If WKRK-FM/CBS wins rights to the Browns, I could see Clear Channel moving some -- but not all -- Indians games to one of its FMs. Keep in mind that this would largely be to offset the loss of bragging rights rather than any real drop in audience. WMMS "momentum" is the result of two strong year-round talk shows during AM and PM drives, not seasonal play-by-play.

I think the Tribe would like to have at least some of their games on FM. CC having the Buzzard in their back pocket made it possible for them to be able to offer the Tribe some FM games, while still keeping WTAM as the main flagship. Again, I think the Friday simulcasts were a dry run for something bigger.

And regardless of how it's spun, CC doesn't want to lose the Browns...it just looks bad, and it would hurt in the wallet.

But CC's the clubhouse leader to retain, though CBS will bring it strong (to borrow a Michael Reghi catchphrase).

 

[Levdr1lostpassword]

I think the Tribe would like to have at least some of their games on FM. ... I think the Friday simulcasts were a dry run for something bigger.

We have no idea what the Indians want on the radio. For all we know the four-game "Friday Night Baseball" was merely Clear Channel throwing out whatever it could during last summer's negotiations, hoping something would stick in the event CBS began to gain ground. But now those negotations are over, and we know the Indians are staying with WTAM/Clear Channel. And if Clear Channel retains the Browns, I don't see any reason for them to change anything regarding play-by-play.

On a side note, and as an Indians fan, I really don't care whether the games are on AM or FM.

And regardless of how it's spun, CC doesn't want to lose the Browns...it just looks bad, and it would hurt in the wallet.

Clear Channel wants to retain the Browns: it would "look bad" to lose the rights, for Clear Channel, and it would "hurt in the wallet," for Clear Channel. However, any damage to come would not directly affect WMMS. The station has found a new, viable identity separate from play-by-play. As with "Friday Night Baseball", any change in Browns promotions this year (on-air, web presence, etc.) is very likely attributable to ongoing/fast-approaching negotiations.