WWOR-TV's hourly ID

[badjef]

Unless you are OTA, if you are on cable or Sat. you may not see it.

Why would that make any difference? (I have both)

It is not a requirement.

The ID is a legal requirement for a licensed radio or TV station for their transmitter. Since the signal is taking another path to your house, you may not see it depending on where they are pulling signal.

Comcast in Brick, for instance, is pulling WNBC-4 from satellite.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[pab]

Unless you are OTA, if you are on cable or Sat. you may not see it.

Why would that make any difference? (I have both)

It is not a requirement.

The ID is a legal requirement for a licensed radio or TV station for their transmitter. Since the signal is taking another path to your house, you may not see it depending on where they are pulling signal.

Comcast in Brick, for instance, is pulling WNBC-4 from satellite.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Would a station bother to have a separate feed without the hourly ID keyed in for satellite and cable? Needless redundancy, one would think.

 

[badjef]

Unless you are OTA, if you are on cable or Sat. you may not see it.

Why would that make any difference? (I have both)

It is not a requirement.

The ID is a legal requirement for a licensed radio or TV station for their transmitter. Since the signal is taking another path to your house, you may not see it depending on where they are pulling signal.

Comcast in Brick, for instance, is pulling WNBC-4 from satellite.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Would a station bother to have a separate feed without the hourly ID keyed in for satellite and cable? Needless redundancy, one would think.

The separate feed is due to signal reliability and legality.

The short spaced and atmospheric conditions of Ch#4, for instance, make the dependability of a satellite a better option.

The legal is only required for the over the air Ch#28 signal.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[w9wi]

Unless you are OTA, if you are on cable or Sat. you may not see it.

Why would that make any difference? (I have both)

It is not a requirement.

The ID is a legal requirement for a licensed radio or TV station for their transmitter. Since the signal is taking another path to your house, you may not see it depending on where they are pulling signal.

Comcast in Brick, for instance, is pulling WNBC-4 from satellite.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Would a station bother to have a separate feed without the hourly ID keyed in for satellite and cable? Needless redundancy, one would think.

Many (most?) stations do provide a direct fiber or microwave feed from their studios to satellite and/or cable providers.

In some cases it may be technically feasible to provide this feed from a point where the ID hasn't yet been inserted. And as has been suggested, it is not legally necessary to have the ID on the cable/satellite feed.

That said...

At the station I work for, the ID is keyed in the same MCR switcher that selects program sources. (studio for live newscasts/NBC network/video server for syndicated shows & local commercials, etc.) There is no point in the chain where we could pick off a feed for cable/satellite that would have all our programming but no IDs.

In my experience, the vast majority of stations are wired the same way we are.

 

[azumanga]

At the station I work for, the ID is keyed in the same MCR switcher that selects program sources. (studio for live newscasts/NBC network/video server for syndicated shows & local commercials, etc.) There is no point in the chain where we could pick off a feed for cable/satellite that would have all our programming but no IDs.

In my experience, the vast majority of stations are wired the same way we are.

In the Tampa Bay area, Bright House gets most of their stations via fiber, yet all the major TV stations include a legal ID, both on the fiber feeds and the terrestrial signals.

 

[pab]

Many (most?) stations do provide a direct fiber or microwave feed from their studios to satellite and/or cable providers.

Yes, but as you said, there's no point for a separate chain to that feed which doesn't include the ID key.

 

[badjef]

At the station I work for, the ID is keyed in the same MCR switcher that selects program sources. (studio for live newscasts/NBC network/video server for syndicated shows & local commercials, etc.) There is no point in the chain where we could pick off a feed for cable/satellite that would have all our programming but no IDs.

In my experience, the vast majority of stations are wired the same way we are.

In the Tampa Bay area, Bright House gets most of their stations via fiber, yet all the major TV stations include a legal ID, both on the fiber feeds and the terrestrial signals.

The graphics haven't been updated to reflect the single digital over the air transmitter. When you see WFLA-TV/WFLA-DT, Tampa, that still ID's anologue/digital simulcast which hasn't happened since last June.
Bright House is just the pipeline for the content. The ID is originating from the Master Control room only for the purpose of the OTA legal ID.

When was the last time you saw WGN-Chicago? or WTBS-Atlanta?, not from "TBS". There is no ID. Any ID is purely for promotional purposes only. Superstation 17 doesn't even exist in Atlanta any more. Since September 2007, it has been WPCH.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[w9wi]

Many (most?) stations do provide a direct fiber or microwave feed from their studios to satellite and/or cable providers.

Yes, but as you said, there's no point for a separate chain to that feed which doesn't include the ID key.

Precisely. My point is, that it's both technically & legally possible to provide cable/satellite a feed w/out IDs, but few if any stations do it.

 

[w9wi]

The graphics haven't been updated to reflect the single digital over the air transmitter. When you see WFLA-TV/WFLA-DT, Tampa, that still ID's anologue/digital simulcast which hasn't happened since last June.

Strangely enough, "WFLA-DT" is the callsign that no longer exists. Late last year, the FCC reassigned -DT stations their old analog calls. WFLA-DT became WFLA-TV; WNBC-DT became WNBC; KRON-DT became KRON-TV.

To my knowledge (I'm an engineer, not a lawyer) it's legal to leave the no-longer-existant WFLA-DT calls on the ID, just not necessary.

When was the last time you saw WGN-Chicago? or WTBS-Atlanta?, not from "TBS". There is no ID. Any ID is purely for promotional purposes only. Superstation 17 doesn't even exist in Atlanta any more. Since September 2007, it has been WPCH.

True, though in those two cases the stations you're seeing via cable/satellite do not have an OTA signal. If you were in, say, Milwaukee with an OTA TV and a big antenna.. and you tuned to channel 9 out of Chicago... there's a fair chance the program you'd see on WGN's OTA signal would be different from the program you'd see on Milwaukee Time-Warner Cable.

 

[badjef]

The graphics haven't been updated to reflect the single digital over the air transmitter. When you see WFLA-TV/WFLA-DT, Tampa, that still ID's anologue/digital simulcast which hasn't happened since last June.

Strangely enough, "WFLA-DT" is the callsign that no longer exists. Late last year, the FCC reassigned -DT stations their old analog calls. WFLA-DT became WFLA-TV; WNBC-DT became WNBC; KRON-DT became KRON-TV.

To my knowledge (I'm an engineer, not a lawyer) it's legal to leave the no-longer-existant WFLA-DT calls on the ID, just not necessary.

When was the last time you saw WGN-Chicago? or WTBS-Atlanta?, not from "TBS". There is no ID. Any ID is purely for promotional purposes only. Superstation 17 doesn't even exist in Atlanta any more. Since September 2007, it has been WPCH.

True, though in those two cases the stations you're seeing via cable/satellite do not have an OTA signal. If you were in, say, Milwaukee with an OTA TV and a big antenna.. and you tuned to channel 9 out of Chicago... there's a fair chance the program you'd see on WGN's OTA signal would be different from the program you'd see on Milwaukee Time-Warner Cable.

They can do anything they want.

Only the OTA transmitter must have the calls followed immediately followed by the COL. There is no exception to this rule. Never was, Never will.

WNET is showing WNET Newark, the "Newark" morphs into "New York" very quickly. Blink and you will miss it. If you are not paying that close attention, you would be left with the impression it is a NYC licensed station.

And, yes, the signal (content) can be picked off before or after the ID is inserted, depending on where the station wants to insert it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[fybush]

And, yes, the signal (content) can be picked off before or after the ID is inserted, depending on where the station wants to insert it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

"Can be," yes. But do you have any evidence to demonstrate that WNBC, WNYW or any other station actually *is* providing a separate, legal-ID-free feed to satellite/cable while keying the ID for the OTA feed? I have never seen a station set up that way in the real world. It would add an extra layer of complication for no very good reason that I can see.

 

[w9wi]

They can do anything they want.

Only the OTA transmitter must have the calls followed immediately followed by the COL. There is no exception to this rule. Never was, Never will.

WNET is showing WNET Newark, the "Newark" morphs into "New York" very quickly. Blink and you will miss it. If you are not paying that close attention, you would be left with the impression it is a NYC licensed station.

And, yes, the signal (content) can be picked off before or after the ID is inserted, depending on where the station wants to insert it.

I don't doubt for a minute that it's both technically and legally *possible* to insert the ID *after* the feed to cable/satellite.

I'm just saying that I've never seen a station do it. It would lead to an unnecessarily complicated (and expensive!) wiring layout.

 

[badjef]

And, yes, the signal (content) can be picked off before or after the ID is inserted, depending on where the station wants to insert it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

"Can be," yes. But do you have any evidence to demonstrate that WNBC, WNYW or any other station actually *is* providing a separate, legal-ID-free feed to satellite/cable while keying the ID for the OTA feed?

don't need to. The point was that for the purposes of cable and satellite, the ID is not necessary. Just as it is not necessary for internet "broad"casts.

I have never seen a station set up that way in the real world. It would add an extra layer of complication for no very good reason that I can see.

Since when does the FCC care about a station having to add an extra layer of complication to keep it in compliance with its rules?
Most of the stations package the ID in with the TOH graphic but it is only there for the OTA transmitter.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!