• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

WWSW Summer Arbitron

Re: Enough is enough

>
> Please, you're exagerating a bit. Mrmusic got the exact
> ranking of 3WS in Arbitrons wrong by a few spots, putting
> them two spots lower. And since we can't post exact figures
> in here, we're talking a difference of a few tenths of a
> point. Working from memory, that's not all that big a deal.

No, he didn't miss by percentage points. His entire premise was dead wrong. These are the things he said:

"He tanked that radio station."

"Gillispie IS responsible for the lowest ratings in 3WS'history."

"Once again, he sunk the radio station to its lowest levels, both musically, and ratings-wise. That is the truth. You can look at ANY Arbitron book and see the numbers for yourself, so stop sugar-coating it here on this board."


None of that is true. So if the guy is that horribly wrong about a basic overview of the market, he has no credibility in any discussion of Pittsburgh radio.
 
Re: Enough is enough

> >
> > Please, you're exagerating a bit. Mrmusic got the exact
> > ranking of 3WS in Arbitrons wrong by a few spots, putting
> > them two spots lower. And since we can't post exact
> figures
> > in here, we're talking a difference of a few tenths of a
> > point. Working from memory, that's not all that big a
> deal.
>
> No, he didn't miss by percentage points. His entire premise
> was dead wrong. These are the things he said:
>
> "He tanked that radio station."
>
> "Gillispie IS responsible for the lowest ratings in
> 3WS'history."
>
> "Once again, he sunk the radio station to its lowest levels,
> both musically, and ratings-wise. That is the truth. You can
> look at ANY Arbitron book and see the numbers for yourself,
> so stop sugar-coating it here on this board."
>
>
> None of that is true. So if the guy is that horribly wrong
> about a basic overview of the market, he has no credibility
> in any discussion of Pittsburgh radio.

Nope Rancher. EVERYTHING I said in my original post is true and accurate. Ask any senior manager at Clear Channel Pittsburgh.

Now, you're starting to sound like OldiesCat.

Please, let's stop this silly back and forth crap. The guy was fired for his incompetence, horrible leadership skills, and he lost the station a lot of money. ENOUGH SAID.

Mr.Music
 
Re: We're wasting our time on Dr. Detroit

For example, he'll never be convinced Arbitron ratings are only a factor in convincing advertisers which radio station to use, IF THEY HAVE DECIDED TO USE RADIO AT ALL. If there's anyone in Pittsburgh who should send Gillespie a "thank you" card, its the salesmen who work for the local cable companies. I know of at least two large accounts who decided that buying time on 3WS was a waste of money, regardless of the Arbitrons, and who switched their buys over to Comcast Cable.


I think anybody in radio for a year knows Arbs aren't the only deciding
factor. To be honest, if agencies decide NOT to do business with CC
because of Gillespie alone, they are not serving the person they
work for properly. But, tell me this, did these businesses that bought
time on Comcast buy time on the other CC stations and avoid only
this one station or did they avoid CC as a cluster?
 
Re: www.denialexpress.com

> You are sooooooooooo easy. Hole available- crawl back in.
>
> *LMAO*
>
>
> > The ratings say good job for the staff of 3WS.
> > EVERYONE in the radio community knows it is not a true
> > reflection on the job Gillispie did. His track record
> shows
> > what little success he has had. That IS proven and known
> by
> > Clear Channel higher-ups.
> >
> > Mr. Music
> >
>

This is entertainment at it's best. Maybe someone should
air this bit. Even if Oldiescat works at a 1kw AM-D, he's
got you two 100kw mega-stars on one thing ---

The average listener doesn't give a rats ass who Gillispie
is or was. Unless you are in Hickstown USA with a population
of 5 (you two brilliant posters, Gillispie and the guy working
at the damn McDonald's) NOBODY CARES. And if the people that
work/worked under his reign of terror or stupidity or whatever
don't have enough class or consideration for keeping their
mouths shut, CC ought to fire them as well. The ratings do
not LIE. And has the radio station changed musically or stylistically
since Gillispie left????
 
Re: We're wasting our time on Dr. Detroit

> I think anybody in radio for a year knows Arbs aren't the
> only deciding
> factor. To be honest, if agencies decide NOT to do business
> with CC
> because of Gillespie alone, they are not serving the person
> they
> work for properly. But, tell me this, did these businesses
> that bought
> time on Comcast buy time on the other CC stations and avoid
> only
> this one station or did they avoid CC as a cluster?

I would also expect anybody in radio to understand that the Arbitrons aren't everything, but you'd never know it from some of the responses in this forum.

As for the agencies and advertisers deciding not to use 3WS, it wasn't specifically to "get back" at Gillespie for something, it was because the programming on 3WS had changed to a point where they felt they would no longer get as good a return on their investment in commercials on 3WS as they would on Cable TV. So it wasn't a specific "get Gillespie" thing, it was a "Gillespie's changes to 3WS made it a less attractive medium for their specific product and/or service thing".

As for avoiding CC as a cluster, without betraying confidentiality, all I can say is that the client was selling a product or service which was most likely to be purchased by people who liked listening to songs that reminded them of their youth. Many such people keep their radios tuned to 3WS, but research showed that listeners of 3WS tended to ignore the station, and to treat it as mere background noise.

The best way that I can express it is that research showed that commercials on 3WS were ignored by a very large number of potential customers for the client's goods and/or services. But, by buying time on programs on Comcast cable that the potential customers were likely to watch, they were able to get more customers to receive their sales message for the amount of money spent.

Bear in mind, there are many products and/or services that appeal to a mass market, that almost everyone is a potential purchaser of. And there are other products and/or services that only appeal to a limited group of customers. I'm sure you already know this, but I think it bears repeating.

For example, one would not run commercials for anti-acne medications on stations whose audiences tend to be in their 40's or older. One would not run commercials for the Pittsburgh Opera on the X.

But one would also not use radio commercials on a particular station to sell a product and/or service if one knew from research that those who tuned in to the station tended to ignore it, except as pleasant background noise.

The truth be told, I would still recommend 3WS for clients like retail store or restaurant chains for whom anyone and everyone is a potential customer, and who only needed to have their name repeated to their potential customers to maintain top-of-mind awareness. But for products and/or services that need to have the customer call an 800 number or visit a website, 3WS is a poor medium to select.
 
denialexpress.com

100kw "mega-stars"- they're barely legends in their own minds. NEITHER of those clowns are even in radio.


> This is entertainment at it's best. Maybe someone should
> air this bit. Even if Oldiescat works at a 1kw AM-D, he's
> got you two 100kw mega-stars on one thing ---
>
> The average listener doesn't give a rats ass who Gillispie
> is or was. Unless you are in Hickstown USA with a population
>
> of 5 (you two brilliant posters, Gillispie and the guy
> working
> at the damn McDonald's) NOBODY CARES. And if the people that
>
> work/worked under his reign of terror or stupidity or
> whatever
> don't have enough class or consideration for keeping their
> mouths shut, CC ought to fire them as well. The ratings do
> not LIE. And has the radio station changed musically or
> stylistically
> since Gillispie left????
>
 
Re: We're wasting our time on Dr. Detroit

> The truth be told, I would still recommend 3WS for clients
> like retail store or restaurant chains for whom anyone and
> everyone is a potential customer, and who only needed to
> have their name repeated to their potential customers to
> maintain top-of-mind awareness. But for products and/or
> services that need to have the customer call an 800 number
> or visit a website, 3WS is a poor medium to select.

Is 3WS a active or passive station? Is it just filler noise or enticing radio?
<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.125.155:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
WWSW radio

If you ask radio hacks, they always have critical things to say about this or that station. Look at the beating Jack stations take, despite the fact they're currently in a strong ratings increase in most markets. Yet, the naysayers who can't think outside their very rigid radio habits hammer it incessantly.

Somebody earlier made a great point that (and I'm paraphrasing here), "who cares what radio people think- their listenership is great". I personally think "The King Of Queens" is a fairly stupid TV show, but it's a somewhat highly rated show, so my opinion of it has nothing to do with whether it's successful or not. In the case of 3WS, you can't really judge them as a lousy radio station without saying the people of Pittsburgh don't know "good radio". All they know is what they like and with WWSW 3rd ranked among adult listeners out of all the choices they could make, they must be doing something right indeed. Their former PD being an a-hole has ZERO to do with how successful they are.

If we ask the listeners of Pittsburgh radio, or better yet see the way they "vote" with their Arbitron diaries, to them 3WS must be a very good radio station.

(oh, I forgot- people who fill out Arb diaries lie. Hint- that wasn't aimed at you, Thomas <LOL>).

>
> Is 3WS a active or passive station? Is it just filler noise or enticing radio?
>
 
Re: denialexpress.com

> 100kw "mega-stars"- they're barely legends in their own
> minds. NEITHER of those clowns are even in radio.


OldiesCat & Tibbs-


Please frequent another board. Your immaturity and namecalling, not to mention lack of respect for those who tell you the truth about what is happening in our city radio-wise, is just not needed on this board.

Both Realist and I give great perspectives on radio. Both from people who have worked in radio and now work with radio people. You have to at least be open to our perspectives and not always slam us or put down what we say just because today we are not working in a radio station.

Sure, maybe you are working in a radio station. Hitting the buttons for the Ryan Seacrest show.

Oh, I'm sure you are going to write some stupid, lameass comment back.


Mr. Music
 
www.denialexpress.com

Well, you just go right on thinking that. You give perspectives- the "great" part is doubtful.

The only thing I "slammed" you for was lying (either intentionally or by being just plain misinformed) with your characterization of the WWSW ratings while Gillespie was PD. And your first response was to ask me if I was "on drugs".
You were factually wrong, got caught and have now spent the last week trying to manipulate your way out of it.

I didn't want to say this, but you should see the Emails I've received from others on the board who think you and your pal are absolutely 100% screwballs and minor leaguers (actually, I got DOZENS saying something, in essence, "glad that guy's not actually working in Pittsburgh radio anymore"). I'd post some of the quotes, but I'm not out to totally embarrass you nor breach the privacy of those who communicated with me. The only 2 who've challenged me on this are you and unRadiorealist.

Good night and good luck- you're gonna need it. Over AND out.

>
> Both Realist and I give great perspectives on radio. Both
> from people who have worked in radio and now work with radio
> people. You have to at least be open to our perspectives
> and not always slam us or put down what we say just because
> today we are not working in a radio station.
>
> Sure, maybe you are working in a radio station. Hitting the
> buttons for the Ryan Seacrest show.
>
> Oh, I'm sure you are going to write some stupid, lameass comment back.
>
>
> Mr. Music
>
 
Re: www.denialexpress.com

> Well, you just go right on thinking that. You give
> perspectives- the "great" part is doubtful.
>
> The only thing I "slammed" you for was lying (either
> intentionally or by being just plain misinformed) with your
> characterization of the WWSW ratings while Gillespie was PD.
> And your first response was to ask me if I was "on drugs".
> You were factually wrong, got caught and have now spent the
> last week trying to manipulate your way out of it.
>
> I didn't want to say this, but you should see the Emails
> I've received from others on the board who think you and
> your pal are absolutely 100% screwballs and minor leaguers
> (actually, I got DOZENS saying something, in essence, "glad
> that guy's not actually working in Pittsburgh radio
> anymore"). I'd post some of the quotes, but I'm not out to
> totally embarrass you nor breach the privacy of those who
> communicated with me. The only 2 who've challenged me on
> this are you and unRadiorealist.
>
> Good night and good luck- you're gonna need it. Over AND
> out.
>

I gave you what you wanted to know in your original post. How many times do I have to point that out? How many times did Realist point that out to you?

Please, please shut up. I gave you the inside information you were seeking, despite what the Arbitron ratings were showing, I told you WHY they fired Gillispie and WHY he wasn't doing a great job with the station.

Let's please just end this. I really don't have time to argue anymore.

Nice try trying to convince everyone on here that you received a lot of emails saying that Realist and I are "screwballs". That's another tactic immmature people like yourself use to convince the masses.

Enjoy your life OldiesCat.

Mr. Music
 
hey, thank you

I do, very very much. I'm in the radio business.


> Enjoy your life OldiesCat.
> Mr. Music
>
 
Re: We're wasting our time on Dr. Detroit

First, after trying to listen ...

Why were they running Nascar on 3WS this afternoon? How
many redneck 50+ year olds listen to that in Pittsburgh?
Maybe I am missing something.

----

As for the mix of music. I have to admit that from what
little I have seen (and heard today) this is a lite version
of 60's and 70's hits. It certainly has a 50+ image and
sound, which is a marketing nightmare these days. The
website looks like it's geared for younger (!?!) listeners.

I can see how the listeners would tune it out. It may
be the last EZ style station in America, but that being
said...how can it get such great ratings. I have not looked
at the demographics (especially by age breakdown.) But,
it seems like Pittsburgh skews older than alot of cities.
Please, if anybody knows the important info, post it.

The situation is somewhat unique, I think. You have a
fairly large listening demo base that doesn't buy enough
to justify a huge advertising base. Bad news for salespeople.
But, I wonder --- and am afraid to venture -- this station
is full of filled commercial spots, isn't it? Whether this station
is maximizing it's billing potential and rates is a question
I wonder about.

This is a serious conundrum --- is it worth changing while
the getting is good and being a revolutionary marketer and
finding another questionably successful format --- or just
riding the success until the listeners (shall we say) drift
away??? Playing it safe radio, the king of today, is what
probably will rule. Then again, look at San Diego, Nashville
and even New York for fairly radical format shifts. Good or
bad.


Sorry to say, but I don't know how you can mess with this
success unless you just abandon the format and upper
demo and start with a new format. Jack vs. WCBS, argh.

Did Gillespie even change any on-airs or the music? I
can't see how it could have been updated or slowed down
during his time. I could have seen it go more 70's with
a slightly more updated sound and beat, but that appears
to not have happened.

I might tweak and fine tune and finesse the quality of
the presentation (crisp, fresher, more listener involvement,
etc.) but I think you don't want to mess with the music
formula to much. At least for a while. They seem to
be in a league all by themselves...Nascar included.
Little competition. They should call it the wave.

Flipside, if the AC station is not to lite, what harm is
done by updating and slightly speeding the presentation
up (tempo of music, larger playlist) and adding the lower
end of the demo. Could add a little gravy to the ratings.
Or screw it totally.

Comments???<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 10/24/05 05:21 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: denialexpress.com

> 100kw "mega-stars"- they're barely legends in their own
> minds. NEITHER of those clowns are even in radio.
>
>
> > This is entertainment at it's best. Maybe someone should
> > air this bit. Even if Oldiescat works at a 1kw AM-D, he's
> > got you two "alleged" 100kw mega-stars on one thing ---
> >
> > The average listener doesn't give a rats ass who Gillispie
>
> > is or was. Unless you are in Hickstown USA with a
> population
> >
> > of 5 (you two brilliant posters, Gillispie and the guy
> > working
> > at the damn McDonald's) NOBODY CARES. And if the people
> that
> >
> > work/worked under his reign of terror or stupidity or
> > whatever
> > don't have enough class or consideration for keeping their
>
> > mouths shut, CC ought to fire them as well. The ratings do
>
> > not LIE. And has the radio station changed musically or
> > stylistically
> > since Gillispie left????
> >
>
 
Re: hey, thank you

> I do, very very much. I'm in the radio business.
>
>
> > Enjoy your life OldiesCat.
> > Mr. Music
> >
>


That may be your first lie, OC. Very, very? or Very, very, VERY
much? That extra very is very important. I'd run from radio. Thought
about going back to Vaudeville. Ha!

Why did I get lumped in with you from Mr. Music. I just
said that in a city of 2,000,000 people, you are not going
to be able to skew ratings because of the hatred for Gillespie.
Can anybody tell me why then the ratings (even for the
dead-in-the water 12+) were some of the best in the nation
for Oldies. I'll have to check the exact 18-34,25-54,18-54
numbers, but logic would say that that good of a showing
for 12+ says volumes for it's strength in the upper target demos.
I seen above that it's rated in the Top 3 in the most
important demo. How much more could anyone expect?

I tried to listen to the station earlier and they were running
Nascar. That's gotta lead in a lot of listeners to Monday
morning. ???? Interesting. We don't even do that on our Oldies
stations in the Souf. Do we? I don't wanna know.

I'm trying to listen to see why this station would not
have a strong loyal listeners who respond. If it's skewing
over 50, it's just the national trend and nothing unusual.
50+ just doesn't buy as much for obvious reasons. Help
us out here. Thing is even Comcast wouldn't show huge response
for this age group, either. What gives is interesting.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 10/24/05 01:00 AM.</FONT></P>
 
hey

You're right- it should have been "very, very, VERY". Thanks for catching that.

(btw, I doubt pete & repeat will "get" your sardonic sense of humor)

> That may be your first lie, OC. Very, very? or Very, very,
> VERY much? That extra very is very important. I'd run from radio.
> Thought about going back to Vaudeville. Ha!
 
Re: We're wasting our time on Dr. Detroit

> Is 3WS a active or passive station? Is it just filler noise
> or enticing radio?

Based on the test results I've seen, it apears that the listeners are very passive. I don't know what the station management intended it to be, but the result as been that it goes out over the airwaves as a short step above Muzak. A very short step.

On the other hand, to people who like vintage top-40 music, it's the only station in town with a strong signal running that kind of music. They might not like it a lot, but since it's the only choice for that kind of music, fans of oldies keep it tuned in out of sheer habit.

It reminds me of the story about the old Indian chief. He told the tribe he had good news and bad news. The bad news was that all they had to eat for the next winter was buffalo dung. The good news was that they had lots of buffalo dung.

3WS is the oldies equivalent of lots of buffalo dung.
 
Why 3WS has such good ratings

> Why did I get lumped in with you from Mr. Music. I just
> said that in a city of 2,000,000 people, you are not going
> to be able to skew ratings because of the hatred for
> Gillespie.
> Can anybody tell me why then the ratings (even for the
> dead-in-the water 12+) were some of the best in the nation
> for Oldies. I'll have to check the exact 18-34,25-54,18-54
> numbers, but logic would say that that good of a showing
> for 12+ says volumes for it's strength in the upper target
> demos.
> I seen above that it's rated in the Top 3 in the most
> important demo. How much more could anyone expect?

The population of Pittsburgh is old. With the exception of some retirement communities in Florida, the Greater Pittsburgh Metro Area has the oldest population in the US.

Younger people from Pittsburgh have been forced to decide between crappy jobs or no jobs at all here in Pittsburgh or moving away. Most moved away. Those of us who are left aren't young.

People tend to like listening to music that sounds the same as what they liked when they were young. It doesn't have to be the same songs, but it should be the same saound. People who liked the Four Seasons in 1964 also like Billy Joel's "Uptown Girl". People who liked Frank Sinatra in the 40's, 50's, and 60's like Harry Connick, Jr. today. And so on.

3WS is the only station in town that still plays the pop music of the 60's and 70's. So they get the listeners who like that music to tune in by default. It's not because they're all that good at playing oldies, it's because they're almost the only game in town. The only other station playing the same genre of music are located in nearby towns, and their signals only cover fringes of the Pittsburgh area.

If WJPA from Washington, PA could move it's transmitter into Pittsburgh, it would eat 3WS's lunch. Audience support for 3WS is a mile wide and an inch deep.

> I'm trying to listen to see why this station would not
> have a strong loyal listeners who respond. If it's skewing
> over 50, it's just the national trend and nothing unusual.
> 50+ just doesn't buy as much for obvious reasons. Help
> us out here. Thing is even Comcast wouldn't show huge
> response
> for this age group, either. What gives is interesting.

3WS would skew high in over 50's because Pittsburgh's entire population skews high in over 50's. This is an old town, full of older people.

Look at the other stations in town that are doing well. There's KDKA, whose listeners have forgotten how to tune a radio dial. There's WJAS, playing music that's older than the "oldies". There's WDVE, who when they aren't carrying the Steelers plays mostly "classic" rock, which is simply another variation on nostalgia music.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom