WYAY files application to move to Sandy Springs

[the_widows_son]

There is more to this than just making a COL change.

I would assume Cumulus is trying to get a full 100kW ERP for WYAY which would help coverage/building penetration. We tried to do this in 2005 when the transmitter was moved to the Fish tower. At that time the offer was $200,000 to WOKA and ABC would pay to convert their existing antenna to a directional or $200k to turn down their power so contours did not collide. At that time they were not interested.

In the application exhibit the dollar value has been blacked out. I wonder how much they are offering now? Back then the consultants told us it was a now or never deal.

I think we will see many changes to come for lots of stations because of more accurate signal modeling, terrain analysis, and the FCC being more liberal. Even if they don't get it done I am glad to see that Cumulus is investing in a signal upgrade and hope thay get it done.

Here are the links to the CDBS:

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101480213&qnum=5340&copynum=1&exhcnum=3

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...xt=25&appn=101480213&formid=301&fac_num=48727

The application is for a City of License change only. No other changes are happening.

But the discussion seems to revolve around the question: "Is this change for city of license a first step that will facilitate some future application that could involved a facility change."

The discussion has turned into a parlor game of figuring out what future application could and could not work.

 

[acheron1982]

So would they keep the antenna on the current tower and go up 100k or would they change locations? Obviously, COL is irrelevant so where would the "new" tower be located? Does the application say anything about the requested height?

I ask these questions because the station, which is currently centered in Walton county (I think), may only be at 77k watts but the height of the antenna on the tower allows the signal to really travel. Just this past fall, I was in Mt. Zion Georgia which is over in Carroll county, only a few miles from the Alabama border, and the hosts of a outdoor cook out had this station on a boombox outside. I also note that the station is received clearly in the northern burbs of Macon and can be received relatively clear in the city of Macon. Where is the need to increase coverage from this station?

 

[littlejohn]

In terms of area covered, the coverage was actually cut in moving off the WFOX tower.... but under the new contours were more people. The problem is/was, once you reduce the power and thereby decrease the circles, the sharks swimming around the edge promptly increase their coverage, limiting a return to the original contours.
You can take a map and either software or a pencil and patience, and define the area in which you can dance. That area changes based on the ability to get others to chasnge their area. This ability has been much enhanced by consolidation of ownership... it's a lot easier to get an agreement fro something you own than it is from a competitor.

 

[jabba17]

So would they keep the antenna on the current tower and go up 100k or would they change locations?  Obviously, COL is irrelevant so where would the "new" tower be located?  Does the application say anything about the requested height?

I ask these questions because the station, which is currently centered in Walton county (I think), may only be at 77k watts but the height of the antenna on the tower allows the signal to really travel.  Just this past fall, I was in Mt. Zion Georgia which is over in Carroll county, only a few miles from the Alabama border, and the hosts of a outdoor cook out had this station on a boombox outside.  I also note that the station is received clearly in the northern burbs of Macon and can be received relatively clear in the city of Macon.  Where is the need to increase coverage from this station? 

Yes, the tower is in Walton County (they share their current tower with WFSH), between Bethlehem and Loganville, IIRC.  Looking at the app, the crosshair for the tower appears to move a little--but I find it hard to believe that they would build a new tower so close to the existing one, so I think that's just a glitch in the diagram.

WYAY is one of only two full class C's in the ATL--the other being WSRV, both being on outlying towers away from Hartsfield and its flight patterns.  Going from 77K to 100K won't get you much additional coverage, but should improve reception and building penetration in the existing coverage area. 

 

[secondchoice]

Where is the need to increase coverage from this station?

There is an relatively large (small when compared to NYC but large by Southeast US) number of folks working and some even live in concrete and or steel buildings inside and around 285. Even in multistory wood framed apartments there can be a lot of RF interference from multiple wireless devices in close proximity. Large building penetration via line of site, tower closeness and lots of power could be the only way to reach some of these PPM wearers.

 

[taylorengineer]

77 to 100 Kw will be hardly noticeable. It is a large numerical difference but in terms of RF power it's less than 2 db.
Something else going on here. Braggin' rights....the sales weasels love to say " a hunnerd thousand watts......"

 

[the_widows_son]

The old site (100kW @ 432 meters side mounted antenna) had an average distance of about 52 miles from the tower to the 60db contour.

The new site (77kW @ 505 meters top mounted antenna) is an average of 56 miles. Both these were numbers consultants projected when the move idea was first hatched.

The full 100kW might push the 60 out another 5 miles.

 

[jambox]

Hi Gang:

I hate to be a kill joy, but the scoop is that this COL app, has absolutely nothing to do with moving the station or a power increase. An increase to an ERP of 100 kw from 77 kw, really won't buy that much. The COL app is for another reason which cannot be disscused here, yet.

 

[jabba17]

Hi Gang:

I hate to be a kill joy, but the scoop is that this COL app, has absolutely nothing to do with moving the station or a power increase. An increase to an ERP of 100 kw from 77 kw, really won't buy that much. The COL app is for another reason which cannot be disscused here, yet.

Ah, way to start the rumor mill...

1) Is Cumulus buying the Lincoln Financial stations and having to do something with their ownership caps, but I am not sure how a CoL change would help unless they have a separate deal to unload a weaker sister(s) in the Cumulus/Dickey complex (such as 100.5, 1230, and/or 1340)? Cumulus could add Star or 790 but not both with their current portfolio.

2) "Moving" a station "out" of Gainesville to enable carrying some syndicated programming (talk? PBP?) that already has clearance elsewhere in Gainesville? Is 106.7 going to FM talk with Huckabee as the centerpiece? The new home of TRG as 100.5 flips to something else? New FM side to 680? New FM home of the Braves (to the chagrin of WGGA and WDUN-FM, hence the CoL move)?

3) Heck, speaking of WDUN AM/FM and WGGA, is Cumulus buying Jacobs? What is the ownership limit in Gainesville? Would moving WYAY "out" of Gainesville help with that?

 

[the_widows_son]

Why then are they making "Contingent Applications Agreement" with WOKA?

 

[taylorengineer]

The old site (100kW @ 432 meters side mounted antenna) had an average distance of about 52 miles from the tower to the 60db contour.

The new site (77kW @ 505 meters top mounted antenna) is an average of 56 miles. Both these were numbers consultants projected when the move idea was first hatched.

The full 100kW might push the 60 out another 5 miles.

But that does not take into account the "bounce" 106.7 engineered into the sidemounted antenna. That can gain easily 3-4 db and sometimes a little more. Talking about consultant's "circles" does not tell the whole story. 50/50 contour maps and pop counts are for the GM and GSM.....the tech guys know antenna performance and rf propagation are still very much "smoke and mirrors" because there are so many variables which are difficult, if not impossible, to predict.
Jambox is telling us there is secret Cumulus stuff brewing.....he may know some insider poop......and then again.....maybe not.
But my guess is there is something more to this story. Widows son does make a point about getting agreements to move other stations out of the way. Maybe the "secret stuff" going on will be even better at 100,000 watts.
But then......isn't everything better at 100,000 watts??!!

 

[jabba17]

Why then are they making "Contingent Applications Agreement" with WOKA?

If I read the app and exhibits correctly, they needed WOKA to move so they could up their power without interfering with them so they could city-grade all of Sandy Springs.

 

[jambox]

Uh oh, somebody's beginning to put it together on the list.

 

[jambox]

FYI
Ownership limits in ATL are 8 stations, 5 is the most in either service. Cumulus's "Translators" do not count.

 

[taylorengineer]

Sandy Springs is already in the 70 dbu circle at present facilities 77 Kw @ 505 meters.
This WOKA agreement is because of 73.215 rules. You can't move city of license without this agreement.

 

[jabba17]

This WOKA agreement is because of 73.215 rules. You can't move city of license without this agreement.

En ingles, por favor?

 

[jabba17]

FYI
Ownership limits in ATL are 8 stations, 5 is the most in either service. Cumulus's "Translators" do not count.

Cumulus + Dickey + LFM would be 9 stations--5 FMs (94.1, 99.7, 100.5, 101.5, 106.7) and 4 AMs (680, 790, 1230, 1340). One would have to go. My choice would be to dump 1340 unless I got good money for 100.5.

CBS could give Cumulus a fit by getting into a bidding war.

 

[Snozz]

3) Heck, speaking of WDUN AM/FM and WGGA, is Cumulus buying Jacobs? What is the ownership limit in Gainesville? Would moving WYAY "out" of Gainesville help with that?

Maybe it's just me, but I gotta tell ya, I'd be really surprised if Jay had any interest in selling the family farm... really surprised...

 

[amos]

Maybe it's just me, but I gotta tell ya, I'd be really surprised if Jay had any interest in selling the family farm... really surprised...

ditto.

 

[jambox]

Jabba17

Dickey Broadcasting and Cumulus Media are two completely seperate licesnees as well as companies. Even though they share board memebers, the FCC and SEC treats them as two completely seperate entities, so the ownership rules do not apply as a combined entity. Dickey broadcasting can have 8 stations as well as Cumulus Media.