Yikes WKBW-FM ?

[Mike Sheridan]

I'm a bit of a broadcasting history buff. While looking through the 1961-1962 Broadcasting Yearbook on line I happened to see an entry below WKBW that said:

WKBW-FM (not on air) 105.7 mc 28 kw same licensee as WKBW above.

I had never seen anything about that ever. I guess it's the FM that never was, but it looks like they were thinking about it.

 

[Bob1370]

It would have been interesting to see what they did with it if they'd built it. It would have started as a simulcast, then from the late 60s onward, when FMs had to be programmed separately, maybe an album rock format. pre-empting 97 Rock?

It would have had full market coverage assuming it had enough antenna height (650-700 feet above average terrain) for that power level. Probably would have done well.

Of course that allocation died pretty quickly, since after the CP languished unbuilt, the allocation moved across the border to Canada, was built out in Ontario, and was lost to Buffalo for good.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

The late great Mr. Redmund (former owner of CHRE 105.7 FM) went full speed ahead with a radio station on that frequency, on the Canadian side, years later.

Two different Countries though. I'm not aware of what interference may or may not have come to be if a WKBW FM were to surface with both stations being so close to the border.

 

[Bob1370]

CHRE would have been so seriously short-spaced to a Buffalo station on 105.7 that it never would have been built in the first place. But you have to remember that right after that Broadcasting yearbook was published in 1961, the U.S. FM allocation table was substantially revised. Some stations were permitted substantial power increases, other unbuilt allocations were deleted. That enabled the Canadians to do likewise, of course...

 

[therealjm12]

I have noticed the WKBW-FM allocation before. In fact, I think I had started a "what if" thread a while back listing ghost FM's that were never built. Other than WKBW-FM, I found a WFBL-FM & WHEN-FM in Syracuse. How things would have been different in CNY if they were built.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

It would have been interesting to see what they did with it if they'd built it. It would have started as a simulcast, then from the late 60s onward, when FMs had to be programmed separately, maybe an album rock format. pre-empting 97 Rock?

It would have had full market coverage assuming it had enough antenna height (650-700 feet above average terrain) for that power level. Probably would have done well.

Of course that allocation died pretty quickly, since after the CP languished unbuilt, the allocation moved across the border to Canada, was built out in Ontario, and was lost to Buffalo for good.

There was no antenna height given but since WKBW-TV had already been built by that time it's likely WKBW-FM would have found a spot on the TV tower in Colden.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

I know this is a WKBW-FM thread and I'm just one of many who, ove rthe years, has thought "what if." But there also was another curious FM allocation. WUSJ Lockport began life around 1949 as a relatively low power FM on 99.3. A few years later, after WEBR Buffalo relocated from 1340kc to 970kc, the Lockport Union Sun & Journal was awarded an AM on 1340. A short time later the US&J turned in the WUSJ-FM license. Common response these days, "WTFazoo were they thinking?!"

Not too long ago, thanks to my friend Paul Oates, keeper of the WUSJ-WLVL archives, I had a chance to look at documentation that showed WUSJ re-applied for the 99.3 frequency around 1957 and after some back and forth, the FCC awarded a CP. Within a year, the US&J management informed the Commission it had decided not to pursue re-building the FM. Again, "WTFazoo were they thinking?!"

I am told the FM bays were still on the three legged self-supporting tower, the hard transmission line was still intact and the monitoring equipment was still in the building, although it's likely the original FM transmitter had been dismantled. Later, 99.3 was stricken from the Table of Assignments and the FCC allocated 99.5 to Buffalo.

Interestingly, 99.3 was the fourth adjacency (pursuant to FCC allocation standards) to another pioneer FM, WHLD at 98.5, the sister to legendary Earl C. Hull's WHLD-AM 1270. WHLD-FM had a classical and easy listening format and used the motto, "WHLD-FM, in the center of the FM band." 98.5 later became WZIR, then WRXT. It's now the legendary, flame-throwin' CHR, WKSE.

As a lad (aka punk-kid-radio-geek) I recall being given a tour of the WHLD AM & FM Grand Island transmitter site. It was meticulously maintained. While not as grand as the WKBW-WGR Big Tree road site, WHLD AM & FM was impressive in it's own right with a high perch control room overlooking the big cabinets of the FM and AM. I believe they were Raytheon but could have been RCA. I'm told by engineers and historians that just about everything in Buffalo radio was RCA at the time.

 

[Play Freebird]

I have noticed the WKBW-FM allocation before. In fact, I think I had started a "what if" thread a while back listing ghost FM's that were never built. Other than WKBW-FM, I found a WFBL-FM & WHEN-FM in Syracuse. How things would have been different in CNY if they were built.

WFBL-FM actually was built in the late '40s -- and I have some nice pictures of the transmitter building, a Quonset hut on Sevier Rd. in Pompey, directly across from Channel 9's tall tower, which was erected about 15 years later. I believe the original self supporting tower is still standing and supports WNTQ's aux antenna, but the old metal hut was replaced with new construction on the same footprint sometime in the 90s. Here's a link to an aerial view:

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where...0067222&lvl=17.98669280748448&sty=b&encType=1

WFBL's original equipment package was all GE, including a Phasitron transmitter and "donut" antenna. After it went silent some time in the early '50s, "Big Al" Wertheimer bought the site and resurrected it as WDDS-FM, the flagship of the Empire State FM Network, which also included WBUF, WVOR and WFLY.

Just to the west (on the left side of the Bing photo), a "twin" transmitter facility for WNDR-FM was built around the same time as WFBL-FM; it's now a land mobile radio site but retains the original hut and self supporting tower.

I've been told there was once a WAGE-FM on 98.5 (sister of AM 620) which transmitted from a pole atop the WAGE studios in back of the Loews Building (now the Landmark Theatre) downtown on Salina Street, but I don't think it survived long enough to adopt the WHEN-FM callsign.

It's also interesting to note that Batavia once had two Class B FM allotments which went unclaimed and were later moved to Buffalo; I recall reading that they were 94.5 and 99.5. Today, the only commercial FM service licensed to Genesee County is WCJW's translator at 105.5.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Well it looks like I'm not the only (ex) jock who is also a transmitter hound. Why didn't we think to do what Scott Fybush is doing now? Thank you Scott!

I have seen a few RCA Ampliphase transmitters but I think most of the sites I have seen had Harris/Gates transmitters. The MW-50 was a very popular box. In my one tour of the KB-GR site they had just installed the MW-50 and retired the Westinghouse but it was still on the back wall.

 

[topsound]

As a lad (aka punk-kid-radio-geek) I recall being given a tour of the WHLD AM & FM Grand Island transmitter site. It was meticulously maintained. While not as grand as the WKBW-WGR Big Tree road site, WHLD AM & FM was impressive in it's own right with a high perch control room overlooking the big cabinets of the FM and AM. I believe they were Raytheon but could have been RCA. I'm told by engineers and historians that just about everything in Buffalo radio was RCA at the time.

Those "high-perch control rooms" were still in use in March 1983 when I did my first paid radio gig at Z-98. Very cool.

 

[Penrod Rightout]

As a lad (aka punk-kid-radio-geek) I recall being given a tour of the WHLD AM & FM Grand Island transmitter site. It was meticulously maintained. While not as grand as the WKBW-WGR Big Tree road site, WHLD AM & FM was impressive in it's own right with a high perch control room overlooking the big cabinets of the FM and AM. I believe they were Raytheon but could have been RCA. I'm told by engineers and historians that just about everything in Buffalo radio was RCA at the time.

It was indeed an RCA box on Staley Road, in going through old maintenance logs I found entries for it. At the present time, the facility still cranks out the hits for 98.5 with a Collins 831G-3 and Continental boxes... and a BE FMi-703 which in a pinch can be switched to Hybrid mode for a third backup - an additional backup sits atop the Fairfax Apartments on Delaware Avenue.

Speaking of Big Tree and WKBW/WGR - that facility will be 70 years old this fall, dedicated in 1941 on a 100+ acre site which features a brook running through it... named "Foster Brook" one can only imagine if the late comedian (who started his career broadcasting on KB) got his name from that water feature.

 

[Penrod Rightout]

We've been doing extensive exploring of the KB archives looking for plans and prints to indicate where the Heliax and buried cables are located on the Big Tree site, so far we've found nothing about a proposed FM. We have found, among many other relics, the original proposal for the Big Tree Site from 1940: "WKBW/WGR Proposed Facility on Big Tree Road, Buffalo Broadcasting Company, Rand Building, Buffalo, NY"

That FM project must be with the TV archives...

 

[Bill Myers]

I was at WDCX FM 99.5 and spoke to the engineers then and they said that actually WKBW-FM was going to be on the 99.5 frequency. Middle of the dial with 110KW. This was way before 1963 when Don Crawford signed on his WDCX station at 99.5.
Correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe that 'KB FM was proposed to be at 99.5. Coincidentally, that frequency stayed religious.
I believe that WKBW TV was attempting to get an FM on the air at the time.

Any other ideas?

Bill

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

The 1961-62 Broadcasting Yearbook entry for WKBW-FM @ 105.7 confirms what I'd heard from a few credible sources and a post from Scott Fybush many years ago on these boards when they were under a different name. But as this thread takes an interesting turn, I'd also heard two WKBW engineers confirm what Bill Myers notes, that WKBW considered constructing an FM on 99.5. Strange, but I've not seen anything in Broadcsting Yearbook or other archives to confirm a WKBW construction permit for 99.5. Nonetheless, I'd say the two KB engineers, (Norm Bruckner and Jim Adler) having been part of the station in the mid to late 50s, 60s and 70s, were pretty reliable sources. Very interesting story about 99.5 and 94.5 having been first allocated to Batavia then moved to Buffalo. As each is a 100kW'er, imagine Batavia with two high power FMs clearly capable of covering Rochester and Buffalo.

 

[fybush]

Keep in mind that until the current FM allocations scheme was put in place in 1964, there was no table of allocations as we now recognize it.

Especially in the mid- to late-1950s, FM signals were in such low demand that they could be had, even at high power in some pretty big markets, more or less for the asking. So it's entirely possible that WKBW considered building on 99.5 and perhaps even went as far as to apply for a construction permit, but then ended up with a CP on 105.7 for any of a number of reasons.

It might have been Canadian coordination (CBC had an FM signal on 99.1 from Toronto early on), or even something much more mundane. The story goes that the reason WKOP-FM/WAAL in Binghamton ended up on 99.1 is that its engineer called up the FCC to ask about getting an FM license...and when the FCC engineer on the other end of the phone asked what frequency WKOP wanted, the WKOP engineer sifted through his junk drawer to see what crystals he had on hand. "99.1?," he asked Washington..."Sure, 99.1 is fine," they're said to have replied. (The engineer in question was the legendary Charlie Hallinan, founding president of the Society of Broadcast Engineers.)

 

[Bob1370]

"We've been doing extensive exploring of the KB archives looking for plans and prints to indicate where the Heliax and buried cables are located on the Big Tree site, so far we've found nothing about a proposed FM. We have found, among many other relics, the original proposal for the Big Tree Site from 1940: "WKBW/WGR Proposed Facility on Big Tree Road, Buffalo Broadcasting Company, Rand Building, Buffalo, NY"

Any possibility that Entercom might post that online, with perhaps a link on the WGR site and another at the KB tribute site?

 

[therealjm12]

I was told that WRUN -FM (Utica) moved to 104.3 in the early 50's was because on most receivers, when you switched back & forth between AM & FM 104.3 lined up with 1150 -WRUN AM.
And it did. It was a different world.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

We've been doing extensive exploring of the KB archives looking for plans and prints to indicate where the Heliax and buried cables are located on the Big Tree site, so far we've found nothing about a proposed FM. We have found, among many other relics, the original proposal for the Big Tree Site from 1940: "WKBW/WGR Proposed Facility on Big Tree Road, Buffalo Broadcasting Company, Rand Building, Buffalo, NY"

That FM project must be with the TV archives...

I'm glad to see others who are interested in broadcast history. To me the stories behind how things ended up they way they are make for interesting reading. Too often they are lost.

Correct me if I'm wrong about the Big Tree site, the trasmission lines out to the towers were not burried until sometime in the 1970's. Before that I remember seeing the transmission lines on what looked like short telephone poles. Also I don't remember seeing any STL dishes until much later on. I assume they were using phone lines to get the audio from the studios to the transmitter.

There was a time when the lawn was always mowed, the flag was flown on the flagpole out front and several spotlights on the grass in front of the building lit up the place at night. It was quite a sight to see in those days!

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

If, like so many of us, you appreciate broadcast history, you may read this thread and think about how WKBW, not pursuing an FM, in some way altered the course of broadcasting in Buffalo.

Consider this, WGR AM & FM, WBEN AM & FM, WEBR AM& FM, WYSL AM & FM, WHLD AM & FM.

WKBW? Stand alone AM. A blowtorch, no doubt, but when fragmentation began in the very late 60s and early 70s, and FM began to bear fruit, first with classical, then easy listening, then progressive and top 40 formats, KB, not having an FM was at a huge disadvantage.

The feisty Toy Bulldog, WYSL-AM 1400 competed with KB on an unequal footing. KB had 50 Large, WYSL was barely a kilowatt day and about 187 Watts at night (thanks in part to a very efficient tower near the Kensington Expressway and the need to power down to protect a Canadian first adjacent.) WYSL-FM became one of the country's first progressive rock stations and nipped KB in the 18-24 male demo, which expanded to dominance in Men 18-34 demo.

More damage was done to KB by WGR which competed with KB using a personality driven Adult Contemporary format. Local management strategically flipped WGR-FM, which had used Drake-Chennault's automated Solid Gold form, to the teen-driven Super Q. WGRQ ("97 G-R-Qewwwwww!") took a significant bite out of KB's lower demo and scored big ratings 12-24 Men and Women.

Enter WBEN, which flipped its high power WBEN-FM from AM simulcast and easy listening to "Rock 102" using TM's automated Contemporary format, which created more competition for KB, particularly in the Women 18-34 demo.

It wasn't a walk in the park for KB on the AM band either. WEBR-AM 970 competed with a personality-driven Oldies format programmed by Possum Riley. WGR-AM 550 had the Sabres and a high profile Adult Contemporary format. WBEN-AM 930, although positioned upper demo formatically, was personality driven and had a market leading news department, and as mentioned, WYSL-AM 1400 was slugging away with a tight Top 40 format, introducing 20-20 news and a 20-20 music list that was made up of the top 20 singles and top 20 album tracks.

Through the 60s, 70s and much of the 80s, strong news departments contributed to the success of each market leading Buffalo AM radio station. (This offered as an historical perspective.) By the mid 80s, the stand alone FMs took a bite out of KB's cume and AQH.

In Providence, CapCities' WPRO-AM 630 had a Class B FM. When the younger ears in that market began to move to FM, WPRO flipped the FM to CHR. By doing so, the life and livelihood of the AM station was extended.

WKBW deserves a lot of credit for fending off competitors as long as it did before finally succumbing to the onslaught, but imagine how the course of Buffalo radio history might have been changed had WKBW actually constructed that FM on 105.7 or 99.5. (In your auditory imagination, can you hear a "KB-FM" jingle or talk-up?)

And yes, I'm well aware of the adage, "if a frog had wings, it wouldn't park its butt on a lily pad."

 

[chas108]

I'd like to think that if 'KB had an FM it would have shifted its Top 40 programming over there by, say, 1977. Maybe the AM would continue down the path it actually took, softening its sound and adding more oldies, while the FM would have built off the attitude with which the station bristled just prior to becoming "KB-15". Music-intensive and musically adventurous...with a lot of personality but obviously not full-service. In my mind, it would've eventually evolved into today's WKSE with just a little more personality (what I've heard of them they already do quite well in that department) and of course the WWKB-FM call sign. Whether they'd call it "KB" or "Kiss" I'll leave for others to argue.

FEW stations successfully made the jump from AM to FM...WHOT/Youngstown comes to mind. They started doing Top 40 in '55.

'KB's FM story evokes that of another iconic AM...KDKA.

Here's a station still pulling 20-shares 12+ into the 80's, whose FM was elevator music 92.9 WPNT.

1n 1983, KDKA owner Westinghouse sold WPNT-FM to Saul Frischling, who turned it into WLTJ Lite Rock. And KDKA went without an FM sibling until 1998 when they gained three. Westinghouse (now known as CBS) bought American Radio Systems, including Pittsburgh FMs B94, Point 100.7 and Y108.

Last year B94 went all-sports and took the call letters KDKA-FM. Scott, I'm sure you know, but I assume when WPNT first signed on it was KDKA-FM...

I saw early in this thread that WHEN/Syracuse was considering an FM but didn't move forward...when I lived there in the early 80's I thought they owned an FM..."Stereo Country" on 107.9, wasn't it? Was that a later acquisition?

Anyway it's all fascinating stuff...