Z93: Why can't it be like before?

[lovejamminoldies]

http://tophour.com/audio/Dayton OH/fm0929_1996-06_wgtz_bthompson.mp3

That top of hour from 1996 was killer! Eaton Dayton Springfield Alive. Their crossfading was just as good as 945's, and their voiceguy wasn't bad. The one now isn't bad either, but still. If they came back with some hot imaging, good jocks, and SLAMMIN' crossfading like that, they'd sound excellent and they'd actually get somewhere, like into the top 5.

Anybody understand why they don't sound as good now?

 

[chriscoxradio]

Two words. Radio. One.

 

[lovejamminoldies]

Radio One, as they say, "The Urban Media Specialist." I'm surprised Radio One owns what they do. Well, they're selling to Main Line, hopefully that puts stations back in order. R1 owns a CHR/Rhythmic, Urban AC, CHR, Sports, CHR Country in the Dayton area.. surprising? It is to me! Main Line will probably leave 102, and 92 the same. Z93 could get switched to Hot AC. Probably sports will remain. KISS Country has got to go! They may move it to a stronger signal or get rid of it. I wonder....

Main Line, do something with the POS they have now.

 

[LocalGuy]

What is this "crossfading," and are you saying you've heard it on the radio?

 

[alans613]

What is this "crossfading," and are you saying you've heard it on the radio?

You don't know what crossfading is? You must not be in radio. : Crossfading is the art of the end of a song intersecting over the beginning of another. You younger people probably don't know what it is because radio stations have gotten away from it in the last decade or so, and instead go from one song into a station id or imaging. That has to do with computers playing the music instead of CDs or carts like in the 70s, 80s, and most of the 90s until 1996. Computers can crossfade songs, but it doesn't have the same effect that it did when CDs/carts/records were used in previous decades. So there is what crossfading is, kids. 8)

 

[LocalGuy]

You don't know what crossfading is? You must not be in radio. :

You think you know what crossfading is? You must not be in radio. : No, Alan, it's you kids who don't know what radio does.

Radio doesn't crossfade. Radio segues. Crossfading is an awful, disgusting mess which I've heard on-air only when something or someone has really screwed up. Segueing, though, can be an art.

Besides, it's obvious the other kid is talking about "running a tight board." Computers can definitely "run a tight board." Computers can also be set to do very precise segues, as artful as anything that has ever been heard. The problems being described are coming from either human operators who are too overworked, too uncaring, or too lazy to eyeball and adjust the segues or sucky software that is incapable of adjusting the segues or consistently executing the segues as it should.

...radio stations have gotten away from it in the last decade or so, and instead go from one song into a station id or imaging. That has to do with computers playing the music instead of CDs or carts like in the 70s, 80s, and most of the 90s until 1996.

That's completely false. Imaging has little or nothing to do "getting away from doing segues because computers play music." Imaging is primarily about taking every opportunity to identify, define, and differentiate a station in a very crowded media environment and a very crowded brain with a short window of attention.

Step One to learning any new field or hobby, "kids" - learn the vocabulary.

But, on the other hand, we like it when you don't because it keeps it very, very easy to spot the wannabes.

 

[lovejamminoldies]

Okay. I'm 15. I was the one that brought up crossfading so actually, I do know what it is. In the automation I use for my internet stations, it is known as crossfading. Now, I also use FM automation, (Jazler) which has me set a mix point for every song, ID, spot, Jingle, etc. The "crossfading" on Z93 is not what it used to be. Don't understand? Listen to Z's Legal ID from 1996 and then turn on the radio to Z93 (92.9 FM- Dayton, Ohio) and wait for a Sweeper (ID) to play, and listen to it go into a song. You will notice they are NOT the same. Now, I thought I just broke that down pretty well.

 

[Ray D Yo]

Z-93 has an automation system that doesn't crossfade or segue very well. Even though it sounds good when its done right it doesn't make your ratings any better. 945s crossfading or segueing is really good, and Z-93 still has more listeners. WDHTs system is the same as Z-93s and it beats both stations by a lot.

 

[kentuckymedia]

The primary reason Main Line purchased those two clusters was because some of the heritage rich stations and cash flow. R1 made a good penny in those two markets, but that was because the bulk amount of stations...not so much the formats.

Z93 and WDJX if anything will be tweaked to sound more Alternative Top 40 than Rhythmic to help protect the urban sisters. However, dont look to see them blow up and go Hot AC. Neither market really has an appetite for 2 Hot Adult Contemporaries. When our company was in talks with R1 about these properties, they said that they were going to be selling off another 3 or 4 clusters, atleast 1 more in Ohio. The biggest thing they wanted protected more than anything else was the heritage CHR signals. So dont see them changing too much when they get to town.

 

[kirkiefan]

Two words. Radio. One.

Here's two more:
(The demise of) Great Trails

Great Trails had the knowhow,the creativity and...yes the magic that made their Top 40 outlets shine. John King was Z's first PD and morning zoo. and watching him work feverishly behind the console in the old Eaton studio at the corner of North Barron and Sommers streets was a show of craftsmanship in itself. King was the proverbial workaholic and Great Trails allowed such creativitity which made household words of Gene "By Golly" Barry and Kirkie on WING, John Hall on WIZE,Susie Waud on 92-X and even that little 1kw job on 1230 over in Columbus that sounded like a million...WCOL!

 

[lovejamminoldies]

Z-93 has an automation system that doesn't crossfade or segue very well. Even though it sounds good when its done right it doesn't make your ratings any better. 945s crossfading or segueing is really good, and Z-93 still has more listeners. WDHTs system is the same as Z-93s and it beats both stations by a lot.

Scott Studios is fancy. I know it is. I know they let you adjust the mix points on how you want it. I just don't think Hot or Z wanted the mix points to be fancy like 945's. I hear them regret it all the time and manually crossfade it.

 

[LocalGuy]

I was the one that brought up crossfading so actually, I do know what it is.

If you think you've heard crossfading anywhere other than a mix show, then you do not know what it is.

In the automation I use for my internet stations, it is known as crossfading.

And all that means is that it's some piece of homemade nonsense made by someone else who has nothing to do with real radio.

Now, I also use FM automation, (Jazler)...

What is "frequency-modulated automation?" I've never heard of such a thing.

...which has me set a mix point...

"segue"

The "crossfading" on Z93 is not what it used to be.

Unless the station has experimented with mix shows, I'm willing to bet there has never been any crossfading on Z93 in the past and that there isn't any now.

Don't understand?

No.

Now, I thought I just broke that down pretty well.

Sorry, but you didn't. The fact that you think you did scares me.

I really appreciate your enthusiasm, but, please, learn the vocabulary!

I know they let you adjust the mix points...

"segues"

I hear them regret it all the time and manually crossfade it.

If a jock crossfaded, I guarantee you he would get hotlined or talked to asap, and, if it was intentional, he would get . If that jock crossfaded again, I guarantee you he would be replaced. Why?

Outside of mix shows and the WEBN fireworks soundtrack, there is no crossfading on radio! Crossfading is a god-awful trainwreck aural mess!

 

[lovejamminoldies]

You know, LocalGuy, you're a piece of work. It must be cool to criticize me, eh? Criticize a 15 year old kid who is trying to make it in radio. Whatever.

 

[LocalGuy]

It must be cool to criticize me, eh?

I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to think it's a very poor investment of time because it really seems you want to remain a wannabe rather than learn what's being told to you.

Criticize a 15 year old kid who is trying to make it in radio. Whatever.

Criticize? No, "correct."

If you're really trying to make it in radio, then:

a) Learn the vocabulary! Why are you apparently insisting upon using the wrong words??
b) Stop submerging yourself in the world of the amateurs and the wannabes.
c) Embrace every learning opportunity that comes your way.
d) Accept correction (the industry uses it in every department every day)
e) Never say "whatever" in the way you just did. It's absolutely meaningless, and we radio people really like every word we say to have a lot of meaning. Plus, it makes you look like a not-very-smart kid who can't communicate his thoughts, which is also something we in radio don't like.

 

[tillman]

It must be cool to criticize me, eh?

I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to think it's a very poor investment of time because it really seems you want to remain a wannabe rather than learn what's being told to you.

Criticize a 15 year old kid who is trying to make it in radio. Whatever.

Criticize? No, "correct."

If you're really trying to make it in radio, then:

a) Learn the vocabulary! Why are you apparently insisting upon using the wrong words??
b) Stop submerging yourself in the world of the amateurs and the wannabes.
c) Embrace every learning opportunity that comes your way.
d) Accept correction (the industry uses it in every department every day)
e) Never say "whatever" in the way you just did. It's absolutely meaningless, and we radio people really like every word we say to have a lot of meaning. Plus, it makes you look like a not-very-smart kid who can't communicate his thoughts, which is also something we in radio don't like.

Speaking of wannabe's, Localguy, where do you work? Or where have you worked in the past couple of years? Just checking to see how familiar you are with the "world of wannabe's." You just sound a bit harsh with these people on the boards.

 

[DaytonRadio]

It must be cool to criticize me, eh?

I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to think it's a very poor investment of time because it really seems you want to remain a wannabe rather than learn what's being told to you.

Criticize a 15 year old kid who is trying to make it in radio. Whatever.

Criticize? No, "correct."

If you're really trying to make it in radio, then:

a) Learn the vocabulary! Why are you apparently insisting upon using the wrong words??
b) Stop submerging yourself in the world of the amateurs and the wannabes.
c) Embrace every learning opportunity that comes your way.
d) Accept correction (the industry uses it in every department every day)
e) Never say "whatever" in the way you just did. It's absolutely meaningless, and we radio people really like every word we say to have a lot of meaning. Plus, it makes you look like a not-very-smart kid who can't communicate his thoughts, which is also something we in radio don't like.

Speaking of wannabe's, Localguy, where do you work? Or where have you worked in the past couple of years? Just checking to see how familiar you are with the "world of wannabe's." You just sound a bit harsh with these people on the boards.

In LocalGuy's defense, it is rather irritating when non-radio people think they know everything there is to know about the industry. I feel it drives REAL professionals away from the boards.

 

[alans613]

You don't know what crossfading is? You must not be in radio. :

You think you know what crossfading is? You must not be in radio. : No, Alan, it's you kids who don't know what radio does.

Radio doesn't crossfade. Radio segues. Crossfading is an awful, disgusting mess which I've heard on-air only when something or someone has really screwed up. Segueing, though, can be an art.

Besides, it's obvious the other kid is talking about "running a tight board." Computers can definitely "run a tight board." Computers can also be set to do very precise segues, as artful as anything that has ever been heard. The problems being described are coming from either human operators who are too overworked, too uncaring, or too lazy to eyeball and adjust the segues or sucky software that is incapable of adjusting the segues or consistently executing the segues as it should.

...radio stations have gotten away from it in the last decade or so, and instead go from one song into a station id or imaging. That has to do with computers playing the music instead of CDs or carts like in the 70s, 80s, and most of the 90s until 1996.

That's completely false. Imaging has little or nothing to do "getting away from doing segues because computers play music." Imaging is primarily about taking every opportunity to identify, define, and differentiate a station in a very crowded media environment and a very crowded brain with a short window of attention.

Step One to learning any new field or hobby, "kids" - learn the vocabulary.

But, on the other hand, we like it when you don't because it keeps it very, very easy to spot the wannabes.

I am NOT a kid FYI! I don't come on here and brag about my "insider" knowledge of radio like you do ;D. I guess you are the one that loves to attack people for no apparent reason . Crossfading and segues are the same thing-I know what I am talking about. These computers you love and cherish so much can't replace the hard work of a person playing carts and CDs-I don't care if it's Bill Gates himself running the stupid computer-and doing crossfades and segues by hand. Go back and listen to tapes from the 80s and early 90s when all of this was done manually. All computers have done to radio is create the "art" of putting people out of work with voice tracking and all of that nonsense. I do realize that stations need to keep their brand identity out there...but after every song? That's all I was saying. I wasn't trying to attack anybody or anything. I was trying to help someone understand what crossfading/seguing is, not create a personal attack. I know the vocabulary. Now can't we all just get along and move on? ???

 

[LocalGuy]

Crossfading and segues are the same thing-I know what I am talking about.

You do not. Crossfading and segueing are two different and separate things, period. Period.

What you're saying is like saying "purple and green are the same thing, and I know what I am talking about." Both contain blue, but they are definitely not the same thing! People who know about colors will instantly see that you're wrong and know why you're making the mistake, and that's exactly what's happening here.

These computers you love and cherish so much can't replace the hard work of a person playing carts and CDs-I don't care if it's Bill Gates himself running the stupid computer-and doing crossfades and segues by hand.

Yes, they most certainly can. You can set the markers on each cut properly or manually set each segue (in most good systems), and you can do your segues with a precision that would be all but impossible live.

And Bill Gates wouldn't be doing any crossfades because, outside of mix shows and fireworks soundtracks, crossfades are not done on radio! Even in mix shows and fireworks soundtracks, true crossfades are very rare.

By the way, I don't "love and cherish" the computers.

Go back and listen to tapes from the 80s and early 90s when all of this was done manually.

It's all still firmly in my memory, so I don't have to listen to tapes.

I do realize that stations need to keep their brand identity out there...but after every song?

For most stations, but I'm not going to explain why.

I was trying to help someone understand what crossfading/seguing is, not create a personal attack.

Great! Me, too!

The difference is I actually know that crossfading and segueing are two totally different things. I still can't figure out why you guys would insist on being wrong about it and then even spreading your being wrong. If you're really wanting to help people, learn it yourself first!

However, you guys feel free to continue to be wrong so we can continue to spot you easily. That works out for us real well.

 

[lovejamminoldies]

"Sighs." Alright. LocalGuy, thanks for the help. I appreciate it. I may actually grow up in radio and get a job because I know the difference between a segue and a crossfade. Heh.

 

[alans613]

"Sighs." Alright. LocalGuy, thanks for the help. I appreciate it. I may actually grow up in radio and get a job because I know the difference between a segue and a crossfade. Heh.

;D  I'm pretty sure I know who you are, LocalGuy.  Did you used to work at a station in Springfield?  If so, YOU'RE VERY EASY to spot.  If not, i'm sorry for being "wrong" again.