Zippo vs Jody

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

Perhaps you need to take a refresher course and readjust your sights. You keep missing the target. Common mistake today,when so focused on sales the consumer(in this case, the listener ) is lost. Many took the time to explain it to you. You need to use both eyes to see it and ears to hear it and get out there to feel it. We turn you back over to your over researched research group with stale sandwiches and luke warm cola,already in progress.

 

[Robert Bass]

Nope, I'm as sober as you can be. In fact I have never had a drop in all my life.

And yes, 25 - 54 is KLUV's demo. Why do you think they are evolving to that crowd?

Let me rephrase a bit on how Zippo would work in AM drive. He would NOT be targeting the teens of today. Instead he would target those who were teens during his heyday at KHKS. No he may not do the same bits today that he did then. BUT he could very easily taylor his presentation for the demos, and still be entertaining.

R

25-54 is NOT KLUV's target demo. Or at least it damn sure wasn't when i worked there.

There's a big difference between a target demo and where you get your ratings at.

Yes, they may be getting thebulk of their ratings from P25-54, but that's not their target.

Some of you guys appear to be radio vetrans. Do you really not understand the difference?

And yes they're evolving. But they're pretty much consistently targeting the 45+ market.

If you gusy don't understand teh difference, I don't have time to explain programming and marketing basics to y'all...

Well lets see.... Since we know advertisers, for the most part, ignore the 55+ crowd, by your logic KLUV's target is 45 - 54. Wow, what a small audience base!

R

 

[little1]

Actually, nobody has explained anything.
But if you wantto take your shot....

An dtell me that if they're targeting 25 year olds what music you think they're playing that is going to appeal to a large number of 25 year olds.

Not a few, but large numbers. Oh, that's right. They're not. they're playing music that by and large appeals to people 40+, more likely 45+....

 

[Robert Bass]

An dtell me that if they're targeting 25 year olds what music you think they're playing that is going to appeal to a large number of 25 year olds.

That's too easy... 1980's music.

Next question?

R

 

[little1]

Well lets see.... Since we know advertisers, for the most part, ignore the 55+ crowd, by your logic KLUV's target is 45 - 54. Wow, what a small audience base!

R

But you're forgetting 2 very important things. There's not very many other stations targeting that demo musically and that demo still has quite a bit of disposable cash...

I'm telling you, their target demo is 45-54...Now they're constantly skewing to the front end of that demo, to pick up the 35-44's that don't like their other options, but I'm not sure any of you people can sit there with a straight face and tell me that they're targeting anything outside of 45-54's. Or 40-54 at best...

Or if you are telling me that, point to some music evidence. the latest I've heard on KLUV is very early 80's. Add in the 26 year difference, and that music is most likely to appeal to a 42-46 year old...

 

[little1]

That's too easy... 1980's music.

Next question?

R

But doesn't your own post argue against that? So your station, that plays mainly 70's-80's music gets 32% 35-44's, 33 percent 45-54's, and just 7 percent in the 25-34 range.

But yet here's a station that's plays the same basic music (just with much tighter playlists) and you think they're going to appeal to 25 year olds?

I mean really, 25 year olds weren't even born when most ofthat music came out...And yougusy really think that's who KLUV is targeting... :

 

[Robert Bass]

I'm telling you, their target demo is 45-54...

Yes, you've told us that a dozen times, and we're telling you that you're incorrect. Take off your rose collered glasses and look at the percentages I gave you from KEOM's demo. 32% of the cume averages 35 - 44, and 33% of the cume averages 45 - 54. Meanwhile only 7% is averaging 25 - 34. KEOM and KLUV share a lot of 70's songs. The 60's songs on KLUV are for the older demos, like 45 - 54, the 80's are for future growth of KLUV's listener base.

R

 

[Robert Bass]

That's too easy... 1980's music.

Next question?

R

But doesn't your own post argue against that? So your station, that plays mainly 70's-80's music gets 32% 35-44's, 33 percent 45-54's, and just 7 percent in the 25-34 range.

We aren't playing much 80's music. The few from the 80's we do spin, hit the charts in 1979.

So technically we're all 70's.

We need to start adding 80's.

R

 

[little1]

Dude, you just proved my point.

If KLUV and KEOM share much of the same music, and KEOM has a measly 7% audience 25-34, how can you sit there with a straight face and say that KLUV is targeting 25year olds?

Are we using different definitions of 'targeting'?

 

[Robert Bass]

Dude, you just proved my point.

If KLUV and KEOM share much of the same music, and KEOM has a measly 7% audience 25-34, how can you sit there with a straight face and say that KLUV is targeting 25year olds?

By adding 80's Music... that's the appeal music for the 25+ crowd, and KLUV is adding this music.

R

 

[Robert Bass]

And now here's my question... If KLUV is targeting a demo limited to a ten year age range, then why are they tied for the number 2 spot in 12+? Shouldn't they be more like the 14th or 15th station in 12+, if their target really is 45 - 54? That makes no sense.

R

 

[little1]

Okay, we just cross posted there, but I think you're inadvertently proving MY point. The vast majority of music on KLUV (70's) appeals to 45-54. The music that they're adding (80's) appeals to the 35-44's. And since most of what I've heard on KLUV is early 80's, that's can probably be described as 40-44's...

But there is little to nothing that can be construed as 'targeting" 25 year olds. Will they get some? Sure. There's always some diarys you can look at and go 'how the heck did we get THAT?"

An djust to spell it out. When I say 'targeting' I mean that they are centering on that era/demo/whatever.

That's wildly different from where they're ratings may be showing up.

Think about it this way- what were the top 3 12+ stations in the last book? KISS, K104 and WBAP, IIRC...
What audiences are those stations TARGETING?

I don't think it can be argued that KISS and K104 are targeting anybody older than 12...

But do you think WBAP is targetingthe same audience? No, they're targeting an older, more conservative audience.

Their audience may end up coming from the same place (12+) butthe targeting is certainly differnt...

 

[little1]

And now here's my question... If KLUV is targeting a demo limited to a ten year age range, then why are they tied for the number 2 spot in 12+? Shouldn't they be more like the 14th or 15th station in 12+, if their target really is 45 - 54? That makes no sense.

R

Again, when I say targeting, I'm talking about what the main focus of their music, etc is...They're Targeting 45-54, IMO, since that's where most of their music is targeted, with a mixture of the early 80's, which targets the 40-45 year olds...

Having said that, they get good 12+ because they're a dominant station 25-54. But their REALLY dominant cell is 45-54.

Like I said before, who else are they really competing with there? Both Bone and KZPS(old vers) skewed much younger...KAAM skews much older...

I'd bet they compete highly with KEOM, but your signal SUCKS in certain parts of town, which probably limits your cume sharing there...

 

[theshadow]

Some of you guys appear to be radio vetrans. Do you really not understand the difference?

I think most of us understand the difference between a MARKET LEADER
station, and one that just falls in with the rest of the crowd.

WGN is a MARKET LEADER across the board. True, the MAIN
target audience may indeed be 45+, BUT 12+ they have the lion's share.
Having a sliver of a jalapeno is fine. Having the whole enchilada is even better.

I had this argument with a guy on the St Louis Board about an alternative or
"new rock" station. Well, this particular station may be #1 18-34 and #1
mornings 18-34, BUT how are they in the OVERALL scheme of
things in the TOTAL market 12+?

Well, they're #16. Number 16 is sucking wind to me, whichever way you
want to manipulate the numbers.

Personally, I think the ONLY reason KLUV does as good as it does is
because it is a stand alone, and has no competition.

 

[little1]

I can't really argue any of your points.
(And I like to argue) ;D

And I heartily endorse your idea that they have no real competition. Because, as I said before, KDBN and KZPS both target the younger rock audience...KAAM targets the old grey folks...KDMX targets younger late 20's, early 30's) women, etc etc etc...

If you like music over talk, don't like country, and you're approaching AARP-Land, what are your options?

 

[Robert Bass]

Okay, we just cross posted there, but I think you're inadvertently proving MY point. The vast majority of music on KLUV (70's) appeals to 45-54. The music that they're adding (80's) appeals to the 35-44's. And since most of what I've heard on KLUV is early 80's, that's can probably be described as 40-44's...

No, no, no.... 60's music is for the 45 - 54 demo.

70's is for 35 - 44

80's is for 25 - 34.

If you told me KLUV's target was 35 - 54, I'd more likely buy it.

But an oldies station targeting 45 - 54 only, defies all programming logic. That's the approach a CHR station would use, while targeting 12 - 24.

R

 

[little1]

No, no, no.... 60's music is for the 45 - 54 demo.
70's is for 35 - 44
80's is for 25 - 34.
If you told me KLUV's target was 35 - 54, I'd more likely buy it.
But an oldies station targeting 45 - 54 only, defies all programming logic. That's the approach a CHR station would use, while targeting 12 - 24.
R

You do realize, don't you that somebody born in 1982 would be 25 today. Do you really think that your average 25year old is listening to most 80's music?

And if you do believe that, can you explain to me why a station like the Edge, that does well withthe 25 year olds, doesn't play music from the 80's?
Or a station like KDMX, that does well with certain segments of the 25-34 target doesn't play '80's' music?

I occasionally get KDMX's mailers- and the artists that they feature are along the lines of Counting Crows, Lenny Kravitz, Sheryl Crow, Coldplay, etc etc...All of those artists hit it big in the mid 90's, no?


(And just to point something out. I didn't say that KLUV targets 45-54 ONLY. I said that is their main target- if you look back you'll see where I've said that they're mixing in 80's stuff to draw in the 35-40's amd 40-45's...)

 

[little1]

No, no, no.... 60's music is for the 45 - 54 demo.

70's is for 35 - 44

80's is for 25 - 34.
R

And to carry this to it's next logical step, would it be fair to say that 90's music appeals to a mythical 15-24 category?

And would that mean that that today's music is appealing to 5-14 year olds?

I won't argue the 14 year old end, but 5 year olds...Really?

 

[Robert Bass]

No, no, no.... 60's music is for the 45 - 54 demo.
70's is for 35 - 44
80's is for 25 - 34.
If you told me KLUV's target was 35 - 54, I'd more likely buy it.
But an oldies station targeting 45 - 54 only, defies all programming logic. That's the approach a CHR station would use, while targeting 12 - 24.
R

You do realize, don't you that somebody born in 1982 would be 25 today. Do you really think that your average 25year old is listening to most 80's music?

And if you do believe that, can you explain to me why a station like the Edge, that does well withthe 25 year olds, doesn't play music from the 80's?
Or a station like KDMX, that does well with certain segments of the 25-34 target doesn't play '80's' music?

I occasionally get KDMX's mailers- and the artists that they feature are along the lines of Counting Crows, Lenny Kravitz, Sheryl Crow, Coldplay, etc etc...All of those artists hit it big in the mid 90's, no?


(And just to point something out. I didn't say that KLUV targets 45-54 ONLY. I said that is their main target- if you look back you'll see where I've said that they're mixing in 80's stuff to draw in the 35-40's amd 40-45's...)

We are talking about strictly oldies formats here. You're bringing up stations that may play old music, but their formats are not oldies. You are comparing apples to oranges.

And yes, someone who was 2 in 1982 can enjoy music from that year.

For god sakes I was 1 year old when Ain't No Sunshine by Bill Withers was a new song. I can remember hearing it on the radio before I was 10.

R

 

[Robert Bass]

And to carry this to it's next logical step, would it be fair to say that 90's music appeals to a mythical 15-24 category?

Gee wasn't this a topic on the RI homepage only yesterday?

R