How are you quantifying success in the case of Vancouver? Ratings? Revenue?
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A Change Coming to KGO
- Thread starter atthestars
- Start date
SBR (used in Mp3Pro and AAC-HE digital codecs) needs pre-encoded "hints" to tell the receiving end what bands to base the harmonics on.
It doesn't sound identical to the original, but is generally pleasing. Generating even-order harmonics to give a sense of extended frequency response is kind of what the old Aphex Aural Exciters did. Receivers could include circuitry arbitrarily add harmonics over 10khz and that would probably sound pleasant. After all, it's radio and we're already doing a lot of processing to the signal going in.
BUT you might as well use IBOC AM digital at that point, but there aren't that many receivers for it out there.
That simulcast ended many many years ago. KIRO-FM is news/talk and KIRO-AM is local sports.
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it…
Sorry. My error. I missed the “HD-2”.
I haven't investigated SBR much, other than using my HD radio for background listening.
If possible, place the "hints" in analog AM and limit the bandwidth (transmit & receive) to 6 - 7kHz (sharp low pass filter) and use SBR to create a relatively noise free (fake) high treble to 12 - 14kHz.
Kirk Bayne
I decided to go look. CKBD is a no-show in the ratings, so what’s the revenue like?
SBR and Hints wouldn't work in an analog domain. But the "harmonic exciter" type of thing would in an analog domain. You can do that now but putting an exciter after the receiver. But that does nothing to improve all the installed base of AM radios out there. And if you're going to replace all the receivers, just replace them with digital ones
And KTAR-AM has fallen to a 0.3 because there is sports on FM in Phoenix.
Sorry I didn’t circle around to your question. This example is probably pretty bad, as there isn’t much to gauge the success of this station so far (it’s fairly new). What I do know is that the owners were previously using a border blaster signal from Washington state to cover the market. That station must have been successful, as it lasted a long time and seemed to have no shortage of advertisers. Estimations aren’t good enough, I admit.
Well, it IS a co-owned FM, so I doubt that Bonneville cares much. At least they finally put 620 on 98.7-HD2. Besides, other than games, KTAR 620 hasn't aired local programming for years.
Point is that the history in the market David mentioned, dial position and solid signal can’t keep it out of the ratings basement. There was a time you could have run a loop on that signal saying “We hate you. Go away” and it still would have gotten a better number than that.
Nowadays, with all the digital noise generated by all my TVs and PCs, there are no Phoenix-area signals that cover the entire metro. I live in northeast Mesa and have trouble with KFYI and KTAR, the only stations that used to be anywhere close to full-metro Ancient Modulation signals, inside my house. They're barely OK in my car.
Here's a perspective that may help.
Think of AM as like a shopping mall. Now let's go back to 1978 in San Francisco and look at AM Mall. It's an old-school, air conditioned, indoor mall.
1. KFRC-AM (Top 40): 8.4
2. KGO-AM (Talk): 7.6
3. KSFO-AM (A/C): 6.5
4. KCBS-AM (News): 5.8
5. KFOG-FM (Beautiful): 4.4
6. KIOI-FM (A/C): 3.9
7. KABL-AM (Beautiful): 3.5
8. KSFX-FM (Disco): 3.4
9. KNBR-AM (A/C): 3.3
10. KDIA-AM (R&B): 3.2
Seven of the ten hottest stores are in AM Mall. They draw people in and while they're there, those people might dial around the other stores.
Let's flash forward to 1985---seven years later and 37 years ago. How's AM Mall doing?
1. KGO-AM (Talk): 8.8
2. KCBS-AM (News): 5.3
3. KYUU-FM (some called it A/C, some called it CHR): 4.1
4. KIOI-FM (same as KYUU---if these were A/C, they were very hot A/Cs): 3.5
5. KSOL-FM (R&B): 3.4
6. KABL-FM (Beautiful): 3.3
7. KSAN-FM (Country): 3.2
8. KFRC-AM (CHR): 3.1
9. KNBR-AM (A/C): 2.8
10. KFOG-FM (AOR): 2.7
10. KRQR-FM (AOR): 2.7
Uh-oh. Only four of the hottest stores are in AM Mall now. KGO and KCBS seem to be hanging in, but big stores like KFRC and KSFO aren't bringing people to AM Mall anymore, and that's depressed KNBR's numbers and pushed KABL out of the top 10 (11 because it's a tie).
Maybe it'll get better. Maybe just those big anchor stores (KGO, KCBS) will be enough to keep the mall going. Y'know, like Macy's and Nordstrom.
Well, we know how that wound up.
Did Macy's suddenly suck? Nordstrom? Bloomingdale's? No. They starved because people stopped shopping where their stores were---AM Mall. So, no. Compelling content won't bring people back to AM anymore than solid stores saved malls.
A lot of places have re-purposed their malls, turning them into "power centers". What was once a Nordstrom is now a Walmart. And what was once KGO Newstalk 810 is now a sports betting station.
I could compare KQED as luxury store like Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, and Saks. The Disney Store is like Radio Disney for retail. Latino stations like a Mexican supermarket.
This is a really good explanation, I feel. I think that I hold onto a lot of nostalgia for the AM band, and don’t see it as the dinosaur that it actually is sometimes. I mentioned before that I’m in my late 20’s, but heck, even when I was a kid the AM band was better than it is today. I could listen to oldies over there, news, my favourite sports teams, AND stations from other cities (i credit the AM band for teaching me about the world of dx). My parents drove old cars when I was a kid, so the car radio only picked up the AM band. I remember the reception being just fine.
With all of that being said, it’s true thar the band is a shell of it’s former self. Even when trying to name AM stations that are relevant, I can only think of one or two in my home city (KNWN 1000 and KIRO 710). When I’m in San Francisco. I can really only think of one station that brings me to the AM band (KCBS). For this reason, I see why KGO had to close up shop.
I am in my early 60s. I can remember hearing Wolfman Jack at night on XERB while riding in my dad's brand new 1965 Chevrolet Impala SS. It was a top of the line car at the time and it had nothing more than an AM radio. There was a speaker in the back seat that I thought was cool. I don't have to watch American Graffiti. I lived it. Yet I also lived long enough to buy a new car with a TV screen above the center console that connects me to satellite radio, my iPhone through Bluetooth, a GPS, a slot that I can put my DVDs in and the traditional AM and FM bands. That is a whole lot cooler than the back speaker for the AM radio that the old Chevy had.
I can remember DXing clear channel AM stations across the country and in Mexico using an old Crosley tube radio and a long wire antenna as a kid. I can remember calling the shows on KGO when I was in college and listening to their signal at night from other cities when I moved out of state.
I still depend on the traffic reports from the local AM station to get to work on time. I realize it is a dying venue but I also carry a lot of good memories from listening to many AM stations through the years. I do miss what is already gone but I also understand the business side as to why it is dying. There is a whole world of entertainment on my phone that flat out did not exist back in 1965 or even 1985. Radio was all we had back then as mobile entertainment.
I do have to wonder if we should keep a few of the clear channel AM stations around for running the Emergency Broadcast System if everything else falls apart during a national emergency that takes other networks down.
I agree with the notion that it would be nice to see the clear channel signals continue to operate, regardless of what happens to the rest of the band. You should consider yourself lucky to have these experiences, because at this point, there is an underlying expectation that my generation is going to get their media content from Spotify (or other streaming apps). If you listen to radio in 2022, it’s considered abnormal. I fail to see the appeal of streaming, as it lacks any personal touch (as I mentioned before). Radio gives you the feeling that other people are listening with you, whereas Spotify you’re just listening to a list of songs.
I also think there is a big difference between a podcast you can access anytime and the immediacy of a live, call in radio show, even more so if that show is going out all over the country. Maybe you can do that over the internet but I have not seen that done at the same level as a radio show. This is what a clear channel AM station can do well.
like downloads? we know just like in sports; local music stations have contests, support to local communities, and of course sponsoring and promoting concerts.
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