Among the special interest groups are the Catholics. Relevant Radio owns and operates two AM stations in the NYC/NJ metro area: WNSW (1430) and WVNJ (1160).
Last edited:
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Alt 92.3 to Become WINS Simulcast
- Thread starter atthestars
- Start date
This is a radio discussions board in a thread about the station. One should therefore expect those criticisms or past observations to be displayed.
Fans did not want to see the station come to end thus voiced the obvious valid criticisms well in advance. So what you are saying instead of management of radio properties fixing the problem due to fan complaints they should automatically dump a format if anyone complains instead of fixing it. No logic to that but there seems to be no logic to the way things work on the NYC radio dial.
One example of this is WNYH 740 AM, which I believe is the most powerful AM station on Long Island. It carries 24/7 the programming of the Overcomer Ministry. It features endless sermons and conspiracy theories by the deceased Brother Stair. I'd be surprised if it attracts an audience of 100 listeners.
There is no "fixing the problem." There are endless complaints about songs on the playlist being too pop or too old or too burned out or too new or too something. Everyone has a different complaint. Management fixes one thing, and the other group complains. It's like whack a mole. Alternative is the only format where this happens. No other format where listeners constantly complain about one thing or another. There's a thing called "tolerance." You put up with a song you don't like in exchange for hearing some songs you do like. Radio is not a free replacement for a personal music service. If your taste is too narrow, your best bet is to pay for a streaming service. I can provide you a list.
Exactly. The ad model only works for formats built around mass audiences. These stations are built around small groups who donate, and the station is likely a non-profit. They can be religious, ethnic, political, or social. The options are endless.
Oh this again. This problem rarely exists outside of the NYC market. There are plenty of other markets where they know how to do Alternative.
Also, don't get me started again on the morning show. I am not the only one that chimed in what a disaster it was and how it was going to take the entire station down.
People rightfully saw the station headed off a cliff many months ago and spoke out. That is fairly normal thing to do. But you are saying people should not have complained. Come on now.
I'm saying don't be shocked or surprised when profit-making companies walk away from the alternative format. Radio companies are not in the music distribution business. And it's happening in other markets, not just NYC. How about San Francisco?
Both have something in common. Audacy.
Audacy tried to nationalize the format. It didn't work. Some stations like Dallas managed to survive. They didn't want talk-based shows piped in from other markets. Removing those shows, adjusting the music fixed the problem. Others did not. They rebranded the heritage station in San Francisco (Live 105) which was already having problems and did what they did everywhere else. San Francisco has a lot of low rated stations. They pulled the plug and put on a format that doesn't cost much money. No jocks. The 6+ ratings now are pretty much exactly the same with the new format as it was before. Just costs less to operate.
They just hired back a bunch of people at their Portland Alternative station. Too early for results.
These stations need to be programmed specifically to their market. If they can't do that, it won't work.
There has to be return on that investment. There are other formats that make more money if you have to invest in local staff. That's what iHeart did in Dallas with The Eagle. That's what Audacy did in LA & NY by simulcasting news n FM. The alternative rock audience isn't as big or as valuable as it used to be. Sooner or later, this format will be on non-commercial public stations.
The Eagle in Dallas was Active Rock. Even more challenging in some areas.
There are still markets where Alternative and variations of it do well with local talent.
St. Louis (Leans heavy in Active) Local to it’s market.
Denver (Leans heavy on Indie, New music) Local to it’s market.
Milwaukee (Leans heavy on Indie, New music) Local to it’s market.
Houston (Leans heavy on Active) Local to it’s market.
Los Angeles (KYSR is the basis for everything iHeart has been doing with the format. Managed to overtake KROQ)
These stations all do well. There are others. They put on concerts and events which are often sold out with huge crowds and generate additonal revenue.
The Alternative stations iHeart was putting on were all clones of KYSR mostly. Not much local anything. What do you expect from an audience when you give them a generic jukebox?
There are still markets where Alternative and variations of it do well with local talent.
St. Louis (Leans heavy in Active) Local to it’s market.
Denver (Leans heavy on Indie, New music) Local to it’s market.
Milwaukee (Leans heavy on Indie, New music) Local to it’s market.
Houston (Leans heavy on Active) Local to it’s market.
Los Angeles (KYSR is the basis for everything iHeart has been doing with the format. Managed to overtake KROQ)
These stations all do well. There are others. They put on concerts and events which are often sold out with huge crowds and generate additonal revenue.
The Alternative stations iHeart was putting on were all clones of KYSR mostly. Not much local anything. What do you expect from an audience when you give them a generic jukebox?
Didn’t WPLJ wallow in the 2 shares for over a decade, even post PPM? It always seemed to me like a station that was trying to play up a legacy that was long gone which didn’t help them. At some point in the 2010s it seems they were trying to throw anything against the wall to see if it stuck, like adding 80s music back in to their rotation. 102.7 made 95.5 sound pretty bad in comparison.
It’s not as bad, but we see classic hits get way more than its fair share of criticism for not playing enough songs and not playing 50s/60s oldies. However, the difference is in the majority of those cases, the numbers show otherwise (unlike alternative in many cases).
We don’t see this with urban AC, AC, or even country very much or at all. Those formats seem to be able to easily get a consensus on what their audience wants, and the audience supports it.
When you say they "do well," you're basing that on 6+ Nielsen ratings. That's not how these companies evaluate them. They look for profitability. The music industry is looking for a new royalty that would charge FM stations as much as 25% of their revenue for the music they play. Some of these alternative stations would lose money if such a royalty was imposed. Most of the stations you list have established morning shows that are mainly talk-oriented where most of the money is made. I see the radio companies focusing more on content they own, and less on playing recorded music.
House Judiciary Chair Jerrold Nadler To Lead Radio Royalty Push In Lame Duck Session.
Despite the fact that a majority of House members are on record opposing a public performance royalty on free, over-the-air radio, the RIAA and musicFirst are still pushing for a
Does alt lag in billing even in markets in which it pulls decent numbers in 25-54 male? It's been mentioned often here that ad agencies have a negative perception of the alt listener as underemployed and cynical, but does that hurt alt's billing everywhere?
All I know is every time I bring up billings for alternative, they underperform their ratings. Keep in mind that some alt stations limit the number of commercials they air. That can't help billings, since the main revenue stream is advertising.
The audience is passionate at some of these stations though. Advertisers might not get that part. Q101 in Chicago just brought the Smashing Pumpkins to a venue in Chicago 2 months ago. The place was packed. Each and every one of the people at the concert were listeners who won tickets the old fashioned way. They didn't sell tickets. All of them were winners over the phone. They called and called. Phone system overloaded and went out for awhile. This was 2 months ago. Sounds like something that would have happened 20-30 years ago. Those stations are part of their life. The stations are often heavily involved with the concerts and have a large presence with them. Have close relationships with the venues. If a station can't build that connection, it won't work. It's a very specific demographic.
Somebody paid for the venue and the associated costs. Even if you're talking about the United Center, that's 20,000 people. You can't make money with a radio station that has an audience of 20,000 people. Now I see the show was held at The Metro, that has capacity of 1100 people. That's not a big deal in a city with millions of people.
Last edited:
It is if you consider how they got in the venue and how hard it was to do. A LOT of people couldn't get in.
Where does the station make money here?
BDS analyzes the current playlists, the rotational frequencies of currents and the percentage of currents / recurrents / gold to classify a station by broad format categories. In other words, in many cases it's a question of lining up multiple qualities of a format and finding which of the BDS categories it most matches.
Of course, BDS has been gone... totally and finally... for over a month now so we have to look at just MediaBase for our industry-accepted standard definitions.
- Status