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Alt 92.3 to Become WINS Simulcast

WIXX in Green Bay is an example. Still live and local 24/7. Their company is a big offender when it comes to piping in programming on their other stations, but WIXX is very successful for them in it’s local form.
WIXX bills almost half of all the commercial revenue in that 18 station market. It is the only full C (100 kw at over 1000 feet) and is also #1 in Appleton / Oshkosh. It can afford to do things that no other station can do... even the #2 biller brings in less than a quarter of what WIXX does.
There are a lot of smaller market stations that still have that connection. WIXX is a bigger example.
Only because it is such a superior technical facility and can create such a large audience. It is, in fact, one of the 300 highest billers in the United States... out of 10,800 commercial stations in total.
In smaller towns, it’s the presense at local schools. Important information (News, farm, Tradio which Howard’s team loves to prank) and just the sense of community. Local advertisers have relationships with the stations.
Most of that was destroyed when Docket 80-90 poured many new stations into good little markets, making all stations unprofitable or just marginal. In hundreds and hundreds of those markets, all the community involvement went away as the new stations were selling spots for a dollar and splitting the available ad dollars... which did not increase... in many more ways.
What they offer alongside of the music is what radio can do better than what any other could. I once tried to sell something on a Tradio show for example. The calls came in almost immediately. Radio can do that still.
What radio can't do in many little markets is run any kind of live local programming.
 
I guess we’ll see how things work for WINS soon enough.
In its first week in simulcast, WINS increased its 25-54 share by 50%. It's 12+ share was up by 30%, and the 18-34 was up by nearly 40%.
 
In its first week in simulcast, WINS increased its 25-54 share by 50%. It's 12+ share was up by 30%, and the 18-34 was up by nearly 40%.

The novelty factor and the fact that it was basically election week might have had something to do with that. Let's see if they're sustaining those numbers in February.

Curious -- how did WCBS 880's shares in those same demos compare during that week?
 
The novelty factor and the fact that it was basically election week might have had something to do with that. Let's see if they're sustaining those numbers in February.

Curious -- how did WCBS 880's shares in those same demos compare during that week?
That's the same argument why WFAN on FM works, "(insert here) was going on." The thing with all news is that it is in the same boat as sports talk. There will regularly be new content to keep the station relevant, especially in a market like New York. I would argue the same for KNX and WBBM on WCFS. Going down to smaller markets, I think that argument changes from all news to hybrids of news and political talk, to then mostly political talk with some news. I think all news will have content in at least the top three markets, and that's a conservative estimate.
 
That's the same argument why WFAN on FM works, "(insert here) was going on."

That's why I'm curious about WCBS's shares during the same time period. Knowing that would provide some insight about how much of a bump all-news got in general in the days ahead of the election, with or without a new signal and all the publicity surrounding that.

The other thing David didn't tell us is -- 30%, 40%, 50% increase over what, exactly, in those demos? If the starting number was quite small, which would not be surprising in the younger demos listening to all-news, then a 30~50% increase to such a small number might not be as impressive as it sounds by simply stating it as a percentage. (For example, if there are only 2 people in a room and a third person walks in then we have increased the gathering by 50% but it's still hardly a crowd).

I'm not disputing the benefit WINS likely got from moving to FM, just questioning what the stats really mean. As you know there are always ways to publicize statistics in a way that put the best spin on things by choosing what metrics and comparisons to include...and exclude.
 
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That's why I'm curious about WCBS's shares during the same time period. Knowing that would provide some insight about how much of a bump all-news got in general in the days ahead of the election, with or without a new signal and all the publicity surrounding that.

The other thing David didn't tell us is -- 30%, 40%, 50% increase over what, exactly, in those demos? If the starting number was quite small, which would not be surprising in the younger demos listening to all-news, then a 30~50% increase to such a small number might not be as impressive as it sounds by simply stating it as a percentage. (For example, if there are only 2 people in a room and a third person walks in then we have increased the gathering by 50% but it's still hardly a crowd).

I'm not disputing the benefit WINS likely got from moving to FM, just questioning what the stats really mean. As you know there are always ways to publicize statistics in a way that put the best spin on things by choosing what metrics and comparisons to include...and exclude.
Funny, I've always heard that three IS a crowd! :rolleyes:
 
That's why I'm curious about WCBS's shares during the same time period. Knowing that would provide some insight about how much of a bump all-news got in general in the days ahead of the election, with or without a new signal and all the publicity surrounding that.
In 35-64, their real target, WCBS was flat in each of the three weeks of "November" (which are really mostly in October).
The other thing David didn't tell us is -- 30%, 40%, 50% increase over what, exactly, in those demos? If the starting number was quite small, which would not be surprising in the younger demos listening to all-news, then a 30~50% increase to such a small number might not be as impressive as it sounds by simply stating it as a percentage. (For example, if there are only 2 people in a room and a third person walks in then we have increased the gathering by 50% but it's still hardly a crowd).
WINS had been averaging 15th or 16th in 35-64 for several months. In Week 3 of October, they went to 12th.
I'm not disputing the benefit WINS likely got from moving to FM, just questioning what the stats really mean. As you know there are always ways to publicize statistics in a way that put the best spin on things by choosing what metrics and comparisons to include...and exclude.
I'm trying to give useful data for evaluation without violating the confidentiality of the specific numbers. There is no more that I can reveal here.

Obviously, the Christmas season is a tough one for all news, due to people having attention on other things. But if the rail strike happens, everything from food and supplies to the transport of human waste will be affected in NYC and news will have a spike.

 
That's why I'm curious about WCBS's shares during the same time period. Knowing that would provide some insight about how much of a bump all-news got in general in the days ahead of the election, with or without a new signal and all the publicity surrounding that.

The other thing David didn't tell us is -- 30%, 40%, 50% increase over what, exactly, in those demos? If the starting number was quite small, which would not be surprising in the younger demos listening to all-news, then a 30~50% increase to such a small number might not be as impressive as it sounds by simply stating it as a percentage. (For example, if there are only 2 people in a room and a third person walks in then we have increased the gathering by 50% but it's still hardly a crowd).

I'm not disputing the benefit WINS likely got from moving to FM, just questioning what the stats really mean. As you know there are always ways to publicize statistics in a way that put the best spin on things by choosing what metrics and comparisons to include...and exclude.
I call that last point "fun with percentages." And I find that to be applicable when there is a low total number of people who are included. I am not so quick to debate David's information in his post; and to be open and honest, he and I engaged in lengthy disagreements in the past, based on subjective grounds. By that, I mean whether I personally was happy with a station going away or not. The outsiders have emotions towards these situations, or else we wouldn't be here discussing a format flip. For the insiders, this is a career. Being on a board like this is essentially "talking shop." Doesn't mean I won't disagree and question statements/information, the same as you are doing here.

Back to why I don't question the information David shared, first the industry where I work, then my theoretical/conceptual understand (and beliefs of David's information):

In my career (education), I come across schools that have low student populations (alternative schools, sometimes charter schools, therapeutic schools, etc.) State testing loves to use percentages in their reporting. I've seen therapeutic day schools where they talk about 50% growth, success, performance, etc; only to find out that a grade level in question had four to eight students. Therefore, I need to quickly mine that information. It's fast to find, but if I saw that 50% and moved on, I would be grossly misinformed. This is where I agree with the purpose of your inquiry.

With David's information, we don't have a demo cited. However, I need to ask of what benefit does David gain in embellishing the 30% to 50% of increased listenership when 92.3 flipped to the WINS simulcast? In full context, this is a message board with an overall low participation rate of outsiders from within the target market. To be anecdotal for a second, I'm not in New York's listening market, but rather in Boston's listening market. This event interests me, so is why I engage in this discussion. Furthernore, to access either WINS or the alternative format, I go to the same app. There was no change for me. With insiders, I still question what David would gain. Audacy isn't looking to unload WINS-FM. There isn't an insider who is on here claiming that numbers are being fabricated to increase WINS's monetary value. And, where would an insider go to gather information that is pertinent to the buisness end of this flip? I don't think they are coming here for that. Finally, it's Audacy's property to what they want with (regardless of how anyone feels about it). So David's information really doesn't impact whether the station stays all news or flips to another format.

Therefore, the above logic leads me to believe that David gains and loses nothing from the information he posts (outside needing to omit specific information due to any non-disclosure clauses he has with his work). Added, we are discussing the number one market. I would find 30% to 50% of a specific audience to be a large enough number to warrant the validity of the information. I don't foresee David really meaning an increase of 30% to 50% of students at Columbia University who are taking Sociology courses. However, a good researcher does question who was included in the population, so your question is spot on. I just am not as inquisitive to rationale behind the omission of the population included ("are the numbers being embellished by focusing on a small population?"). I'm more intrigued as a "data dork" on the grounds of general interest in knowing more ("30% to 50%?!? Who are the people included in that?").

I do get the subjective stance though. Audacy sold the rock station that I enjoyed, to EMF. My posts on that matter were subjective. Honestly, since subscribing to SiriusXM, I now subjectively observe that the station was not to my subjective standards of what I get from various channels on satellite. But back then, it was. This is why I say to outsiders that if you want the broadcast radio feel (DJ interaction and not like it's a Jukebox that your phone or computer are playing), then the streaming apps are free and you can listen to preferred content on stations beyond what's available on the AM/FM bands in New York, and even local stations that aren't available in certain parts of the market. I'm not even saying to ditch FM stations for satellite. That's what I chose for myself. But to be honest, I ditched AM/FM before I had unlimited data on my cell plan. My listening for years before was music saved onto my device and a weekly rotation of preferred and downloaded podcasts.
 
Car HD Radios are really poor quality. They are unable to keep the HD signal. Certain table top radios with the right antenna can lock the HD to the fringes, but not car HD Radios. Even in the city grade.
I have an HD radio in my car, and that has not been my experience. Several Atlanta (where I live) stations have programming on their HD 2 or 3 signal, and I have never had an HD signal drop out across the market.
 
I remember WBBM jumped quite a bit for the first couple of books on FM. Lots of sampling I’m guessing. They also nicely timed it with an election period, which I feel should give them a good jump start. If there is a rail strike like David mentioned, then that could be another jump.

I’m looking forward to seeing what happens in a normal period. It could boost them for awhile. It won’t hurt them. But whether it will mean an ongoing gain (aside from the obvious people no longer using AM) will take time. Several books maybe.

I consider WINS one of, if not the finest news station in the country. It’s been the basis of so many over the years.
 
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I have an HD radio in my car, and that has not been my experience. Several Atlanta (where I live) stations have programming on their HD 2 or 3 signal, and I have never had an HD signal drop out across the market.

What kind of car radio? Every HD Radio I’ve used in a car over the last couple decades has been bad. Not enough sensitivity or selectivity. Seems like it was not a priority. Same can be said for car radios in general. Some are better than others. Then again, Atlanta has stronger stations in general. Most are in the Class C range. 100kw average. Here, we’re Class B.
 
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I call that last point "fun with percentages." And I find that to be applicable when there is a low total number of people who are included. I am not so quick to debate David's information in his post; and to be open and honest, he and I engaged in lengthy disagreements in the past, based on subjective grounds. By that, I mean whether I personally was happy with a station going away or not. The outsiders have emotions towards these situations, or else we wouldn't be here discussing a format flip. For the insiders, this is a career. Being on a board like this is essentially "talking shop." Doesn't mean I won't disagree and question statements/information, the same as you are doing here.

Back to why I don't question the information David shared, first the industry where I work, then my theoretical/conceptual understand (and beliefs of David's information):

In my career (education), I come across schools that have low student populations (alternative schools, sometimes charter schools, therapeutic schools, etc.) State testing loves to use percentages in their reporting. I've seen therapeutic day schools where they talk about 50% growth, success, performance, etc; only to find out that a grade level in question had four to eight students. Therefore, I need to quickly mine that information. It's fast to find, but if I saw that 50% and moved on, I would be grossly misinformed. This is where I agree with the purpose of your inquiry.

With David's information, we don't have a demo cited. However, I need to ask of what benefit does David gain in embellishing the 30% to 50% of increased listenership when 92.3 flipped to the WINS simulcast? In full context, this is a message board with an overall low participation rate of outsiders from within the target market. To be anecdotal for a second, I'm not in New York's listening market, but rather in Boston's listening market. This event interests me, so is why I engage in this discussion. Furthernore, to access either WINS or the alternative format, I go to the same app. There was no change for me. With insiders, I still question what David would gain. Audacy isn't looking to unload WINS-FM. There isn't an insider who is on here claiming that numbers are being fabricated to increase WINS's monetary value. And, where would an insider go to gather information that is pertinent to the buisness end of this flip? I don't think they are coming here for that. Finally, it's Audacy's property to what they want with (regardless of how anyone feels about it). So David's information really doesn't impact whether the station stays all news or flips to another format.

Therefore, the above logic leads me to believe that David gains and loses nothing from the information he posts (outside needing to omit specific information due to any non-disclosure clauses he has with his work). Added, we are discussing the number one market. I would find 30% to 50% of a specific audience to be a large enough number to warrant the validity of the information. I don't foresee David really meaning an increase of 30% to 50% of students at Columbia University who are taking Sociology courses. However, a good researcher does question who was included in the population, so your question is spot on. I just am not as inquisitive to rationale behind the omission of the population included ("are the numbers being embellished by focusing on a small population?"). I'm more intrigued as a "data dork" on the grounds of general interest in knowing more ("30% to 50%?!? Who are the people included in that?").

I do get the subjective stance though. Audacy sold the rock station that I enjoyed, to EMF. My posts on that matter were subjective. Honestly, since subscribing to SiriusXM, I now subjectively observe that the station was not to my subjective standards of what I get from various channels on satellite. But back then, it was. This is why I say to outsiders that if you want the broadcast radio feel (DJ interaction and not like it's a Jukebox that your phone or computer are playing), then the streaming apps are free and you can listen to preferred content on stations beyond what's available on the AM/FM bands in New York, and even local stations that aren't available in certain parts of the market. I'm not even saying to ditch FM stations for satellite. That's what I chose for myself. But to be honest, I ditched AM/FM before I had unlimited data on my cell plan. My listening for years before was music saved onto my device and a weekly rotation of preferred and downloaded podcasts.
Side note. I am in education as well what do you teach?
 
In its first week in simulcast, WINS increased its 25-54 share by 50%. It's 12+ share was up by 30%, and the 18-34 was up by nearly 40%.
I wonder how much of that was people listening to the switch over or the last days of ALT. Then sampling the new station or not getting around to changing the station.

I would be more interested in what the ratings are after the 1st week to get a better picture of what is really going on.
 
It'll take a few months. People who didn't change the station, people just sampling it, people tuning in for election information, people who don't normally listen giving it a try, etc will give them an early jumpstart. I'm going to guess at some point in the next few books we'll see how things are going. Whether or not AM listeners tune over to 92.3 will not be reflected. What you'll see is people who were not listening to 1010 but are listening to 92.3, possibly people listening to either of them for election information (News and Talk stations thrive in these years) and maybe a few other factors. Maybe WCBS listeners wanting to hear news on FM could give WINS a try for awhile. FM listeners tuning in for specifics (Like traffic) will likely start using 92.3 instead of 1010.
 
What kind of car radio? Every HD Radio I’ve used in a car over the last couple decades has been bad. Not enough sensitivity or selectivity. Seems like it was not a priority. Same can be said for car radios in general. Some are better than others. Then again, Atlanta has stronger stations in general. Most are in the Class C range. 100kw average. Here, we’re Class B.
It depends on the station. I heard a coastal station that was just horrible on HD but a Class C2(same coverage as a B)was flawless into Salem, for over 40 miles down the freeway!
 
I wonder how much of that was people listening to the switch over or the last days of ALT. Then sampling the new station or not getting around to changing the station.

I would be more interested in what the ratings are after the 1st week to get a better picture of what is really going on.
The data was for pure WINS simulcast only.
 
It depends on the station. I heard a coastal station that was just horrible on HD but a Class C2(same coverage as a B)was flawless into Salem, for over 40 miles down the freeway!

HD is basically like this:

In an area where there is a first adjacent on one side, might have problems
First adjacent on both sides, limited if any signal. DX will cause this problem, as will translators.

Initially, HD Radio was licensed for about 1% of total power. Eventually they were given the go to boost to 5% of analog power. Stations that did not boost power from 1% to 5% will not have as good of an HD signal as the ones that did. Some of them are using older equipment. They're trying to get 10% but that will cause interference. It already causes a lot of interference on adjacents with 5%.

Basically they only care about the city grade area. Outside of that, the FCC will let interference run wild, and they don't care about HD reception outside of the city grade area. Boosting power to 5% has improved HD reception outside of the city grade areas, but it has also added interference to adjacents in neighboring areas. They can't do anything about that interference because the FCC no longer enforces interference outside of the city grade area. They used to force translators to shut down even if they interfered in fringe areas. 10% could really improve HD coverage in fringe areas based on what I've noticed from the 5% power bump, but it will also make a mess of adjacent signals. Some stations I believe will also have to upgrade to bump to 10% power. Only the ones who want to drop the money on it will do it. Audacy is already interested supposedly. New York will likely see 10% power at some point
 
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